Bernie isn’t expanding the electorate

doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
it doesn’t matter who else is still in. There could be 100 people running

Bernie said he would expand the electorate but turnout has been more or less unchanged and Bernie can’t even muster the votes he got last time around
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when most of these guy's (and gals) bow out after tues we will see where most of the support goes. Bernie is really strumming a cord with the democratic base right now. He seems to be more in touch with what they want see. Bernie is just not beholding to the democratic elite to be an 'official' democrat, but i think he most represents what most democrats desire.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
when most of these guy's (and gals) bow out after tues we will see where most of the support goes. Bernie is really stringing a cord with the democratic base right now. He seems to be more in touch with what they want see. Bernie is just not beholding to the democratic elite to be an 'official' democrat, but i think he most represents what most democrats desire.
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disagree.

The base of the Democratic Party is and has been black voters for a long time now

We got our first glimpse of their voice and it didn’t go well for bernie

Bernie attracts a lot of young people who don’t bother to vote, they just want the free shit. Corbyn showed us all how well that model worked
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
when most of these guy's (and gals) bow out after tues we will see where most of the support goes. Bernie is really strumming a cord with the democratic base right now. He seems to be more in touch with what they want see. Bernie is just not beholding to the democratic elite to be an 'official' democrat, but i think he most represents what most democrats desire.
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I disagree. For one thing, UB's points directly and factually counter your opinion here about what people want to see and what people desire. The evidence points diametrically counter to the talking point you're parroting. I'll tell you my opinion on the reason for this fact. People just don't want the huge tax hikes that will come with Bernie's braindead plan to nearly double federal expenditure just to take away our private healthcare plans. Sure, it would be nice to have it taken care of free at point, but it's not free. Taxes. People don't like em and won't vote for em.

Furthermore, a lot of Bernie's primary success seems to be coming from the opposition because they want to run against him and not Biden. They may be voting for him in the primary, but it won't all translate to votes in the general. What more proof of this do you need than Trump actually telling people to do this while the Russians give Bernie so much support?
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
I disagree. For one thing, UB's points directly and factually counter your opinion here about what people want to see and what people desire. The evidence points diametrically counter to the talking point you're parroting. I'll tell you my opinion on the reason for this fact. People just don't want the huge tax hikes that will come with Bernie's braindead plan to nearly double federal expenditure just to take away our private healthcare plans. Sure, it would be nice to have it taken care of free at point, but it's not free. Taxes. People don't like em and won't vote for em.

Furthermore, a lot of Bernie's primary success seems to be coming from the opposition because they want to run against him and not Biden. They may be voting for him in the primary, but it won't all translate to votes in the general. What more proof of this do you need than Trump actually telling people to do this while the Russians give Bernie so much support?
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The huge tax hike is a russian scare tactic, don't fall for it.....
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
The huge tax hike is a russian scare tactic, don't fall for it.....
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LOL... The Russians are supporting Bernie.

The 3 trillion dollar annual cost estimate comes straight from one of the most prestigious scientific journals in the world. It was published in the Lancet and Bernie's own campaign cited it. The author (Galvani) worked closely with the Sanders campaign to create it. The entire fiscal 2019 federal revenue was 3.4 trillion dollars.

Bernie wants to nearly double federal expenditures. The taxes would be enormous and taxing the rich to actual fuck wouldn't even cover half.
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
LOL... The Russians are supporting Bernie.

The 3 trillion dollar annual cost estimate comes straight from one of the most prestigious scientific journals in the world. It was published in the Lancet and Bernie's own campaign cited it. The author (Galvani) worked closely with the Sanders campaign to create it. The entire fiscal 2019 federal revenue was 3.4 trillion dollars.

Bernie wants to nearly double federal expenditures. The taxes would be enormous and taxing the rich to actual fuck wouldn't even cover half.
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Well if the russians are supporting Bernie, they may have picked the right horse....
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
Well if the russians are supporting Bernie, they may have picked the right horse....
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No, they just want to have Trump running against him because he'd be far easier to beat once all the media starts breaking down the stuff about the taxes. If they get him to the general, they'll turn around and hammer him. It's nice you're now admitting they're helping him though.
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
too many players still in the game to make that call.....tues will tell all
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I don't think the number of players is relevant. If it was, it would only help Bernie relative to the others - but it hasn't.

It's a fiction, and kind of an insidious one at that in that it is boldly asserted over and over and yet cannot be quantified until voting. And now the numbers show that it just isn't happening. To extend this fallacy and hope that they show up in the general is irresponsible at best.
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
when most of these guy's (and gals) bow out after tues we will see where most of the support goes. Bernie is really strumming a cord with the democratic base right now. He seems to be more in touch with what they want see. Bernie is just not beholding to the democratic elite to be an 'official' democrat, but i think he most represents what most democrats desire.
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I like what Bernie is saying too but his plans are not something that can be passed in the current environment. Nor do I think that Bernie is the one to do it. He is poor at building coalitions and has not been an effective legislator. Liz Warren would be a much better choice.

Politics is often called "the art of the possible". I agree with this. We barely got Obamacare passed with strong control of both houses of Congress. We no longer have that. MFA won't pass with Bernie. In fact I don't think he will be able to do more than rule by executive order.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
I like what Bernie is saying too but his plans are not something that can be passed in the current environment. Nor do I think that Bernie is the one to do it. He is poor at building coalitions and has not been an effective legislator. Liz Warren would be a much better choice.

Politics is often called "the art of the possible". I agree with this. We barely got Obamacare passed with strong control of both houses of Congress. We no longer have that. MFA won't pass with Bernie. In fact I don't think he will be able to do more than rule by executive order.
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Same, I would love to have $1500 wiped off my monthly bills that go out in the form of paying back student loans, but like you said, after seeing Obama's presidency basically halted for trying to bring health insurance coverage to 100% of the population, a fight that is still going on today 9 years later I am not willing to bet 4 more years of Trump with my voting for what is very very likely empty promises.
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Same, I would love to have $1500 wiped off my monthly bills that go out in the form of paying back student loans, but like you said, after seeing Obama's presidency basically halted for trying to bring health insurance coverage to 100% of the population, a fight that is still going on today 9 years later I am not willing to bet 4 more years of Trump with my voting for what is very very likely empty promises.
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People here hate Obama. When I ask what he did that was so bad, they claim "he ruined health insurance". They have no idea what good he did for them. No idea. If not for him, most would be uninsurable due to pre-existing conditions, or, if not, would see their premiums skyrocket the minute they needed actual healthcare. And meanwhile, Trump is paying lip service to it while he tries to take it away from them.

But hey, at least they don't have to admit that their real problem was a black man in the White House.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Unclebaldrick said:
People here hate Obama. When I ask what he did that was so bad, they claim "he ruined health insurance". They have no idea what good he did for them. No idea. If not for him, most would be uninsurable due to pre-existing conditions, or, if not, would see their premiums skyrocket the minute they needed actual healthcare. And meanwhile, Trump is paying lip service to it while he tries to take it away from them.

But hey, at least they don't have to admit that their real problem was a black man in the White House.
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It makes me sad how effective the years of trolling him was. The endless attacks were so overwhelming I finally just gave up trying to explain the reality of what was going on to people who were caught up in it. That was in 2013 when I realized the online realm was just trolls pushing the narratives, and figured it really didn't matter as long as people kept doing their jobs in DC and every handful of years Democrats got enough political power to move the ball forward.

Now I know better. I don't see how we can get anything done without first cleaning up this online warfare being used against our democracy.
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
It makes me sad how effective the years of trolling him was. The endless attacks were so overwhelming I finally just gave up trying to explain the reality of what was going on to people who were caught up in it. That was in 2013 when I realized the online realm was just trolls pushing the narratives, and figured it really didn't matter as long as people kept doing their jobs in DC and every handful of years Democrats got enough political power to move the ball forward.

Now I know better. I don't see how we can get anything done without first cleaning up this online warfare being used against our democracy.
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Amen
 
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