• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

Amy Klobuchar

Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
DNC has chosen Biden. An impressive man with an impressive background! Regretful that he is past his prime, completely unexciting, and an easy target, but so it goes.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Khyber420 said:
Translation butthurt Berners choose 4 more years of Trump again because they cant handle real life outside the imaginery socialist utopia.
Click to expand...
Not really. In 2016, about 10% of Sanders' voters in the primary chose Trump in the general election. Probably a few extra stayed home rather than vote on Nov. 9. By comparison, they were better supporters for Hillary than other supporters of candidates who lost in the primary in other presidential years. For example, something like 25% of Hillary's supporters in 2008 voted for a McCain.

So, yeah, burnouts in 2016 may have tipped the scales for Trump but the real reason he won is 40% of the population who are white and suffer from the effects of our pernicious racism and misogyny. A few percentage points here and there due to voter suppression laws, broken election equipment, Putin's meddling, right wing lies, 20 years of right wing fake stories about Clinton, what her husband did, gerrymandering, paid for media stories, the right wing radio echo chamber and, yes, a teensy number bernouts failing in their patriotic duty to stop Trump in a few key states nudged the election to Trump. It would not be accurate to say it was because of those bernouts. They had a small effect, this is true.

That doesn't change the fact that Bernie Sanders is a judas goat for Republicans. He can be pointed at as a reason why Trump won. On this, I think we can agree.
 
K

Khyber420

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Not really. In 2016, about 10% of Sanders' voters in the primary chose Trump in the general election. Probably a few extra stayed home rather than vote on Nov. 9. By comparison, they were better supporters for Hillary than other supporters of candidates who lost in the primary in other presidential years. For example, something like 25% of Hillary's supporters in 2008 voted for a McCain.

So, yeah, burnouts in 2016 may have tipped the scales for Trump but the real reason he won is 40% of the population who are white and suffer from the effects of our pernicious racism and misogyny. A few percentage points here and there due to voter suppression laws, broken election equipment, Putin's meddling, right wing lies, 20 years of right wing fake stories about Clinton, what her husband did, gerrymandering, paid for media stories, the right wing radio echo chamber and, yes, a teensy number bernouts failing in their patriotic duty to stop Trump in a few key states nudged the election to Trump. It would not be accurate to say it was because of those bernouts. They had a small effect, this is true.

That doesn't change the fact that Bernie Sanders is a judas goat for Republicans. He can be pointed at as a reason why Trump won. On this, I think we can agree.
Click to expand...
The simple fact of the matter is Bernie supporters didn't come out and vote Hillary in 2016, if they had we wouldn't be talking about Trump now. I have no doubt they will likely do the same thing this time around.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Khyber420 said:
The simple fact of the matter is Bernie supporters didn't come out and vote Hillary in 2016, if they had we wouldn't be talking about Trump now. I have no doubt they will likely do the same thing this time around.
Click to expand...
There is no evidence to support that conclusion. I look at the fact that of the Sanders voters who cast ballots in the general election, 90% voted for Clinton. The election didn't turn on them any more than did other factors. Voter suppression laws -- ACLU estimates 5 million fewer voters due to that alone. Bernie only drew 13 million. Most of them weren't the kind of voter targeted by Republican anti-voter laws.

Albeit this is for 2012:

www.aclu.org

Fighting Voter Suppression | American Civil Liberties Union

The ACLU works in courts, legislatures, and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and the laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.
www.aclu.org www.aclu.org

Get out the vote?

After a surge of voter interest and participation in 2008, vote suppression efforts across the country have been on the rise.

Shrinking the gap

The levels of participation by African-American, Hispanic and Asian voters all increased from 2004 to 2008, reducing the voter participation gap between minority and white voters

In 2004, the voter participation gap between White & African-American voters was 6.9%. In 2008 it was 0.9%.

2.1 million more African-American voters cast ballots in 2008 than in 2004. 15% more African-American voters cast ballots in 2008 than 2004.

2.1 million more Hispanic voters cast ballots in 2008 than 2004. 28% more Hispanic voters cast ballots in 2008 than 2004.

The increase

Increased minority voter turnout resulted in unprecedented diversity in the 2008 election. U.S. Census Bureau data show an increase of approximately 5 million voters from 2004 to 2008.

The (expected) decrease

With new voter suppression laws in effect, an estimated 5 million eligible voters could be kept from registering and/or casting a ballot in 2012.

State outlook

The five states with the highest rates of voter turnout in 2008 were:

  1. Minnesota
  2. Wisconsin
  3. Maine
  4. New Hampshire
  5. Colorado
All 5 introduced voter suppression laws.
 
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