Cillit_Bang
Well-Known Member
I’ve read it’s good, but then I seem to be reading a lot of conflicting info that suggests root problems when the plant leaves point upwards as if they’re praying... thoughts? Good or bad?
Praying plants... good or bad?
- Thread starter Cillit_Bang
- Start date
Nutty sKunK
Well-Known Member
Means you have the light at the right distance!
PadawanWarrior
Well-Known Member
It's a good sign. No worries man.
Cillit_Bang
Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone !
Tuckatan
Well-Known Member
I see this question asked all the time, and people pop up and say “it’s praying to the sun gods, it’s awesome” etc, but nobody really has an explanation. I’m definitely not saying these people are wrong, nor do I have an explanation, though it does appear to be something which happens with healthy plants, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that this is a positive posture for the plant imo.
I believe the leaves would ultimately be able to more effectively photosynthesise being horizontal and increasing their surface area, but that’s just in my head, with no science!
There are some pieces of info out there, but I don’t believe it is really understood at this point, though I imagine with all the legalisation going on, this is something we will probably understand further in the near future.
here’s a couple of interesting posts I’ve found relating to this:
source: Autoflower.net
Username: Doogal
“I've had this 'praying' stature show up on hundreds of different plants that I've grown over the years and my personal conclusion has been that there are MANY reasons for it, but most importantly I think is to recognise why its happening at different times during the plants life and what it means at each specific stage.
Wxguy was in fact correct when he talked about phototropism being the reason behind it, however plants have a few different 'tropisms' that affect them and we have to look more closely at the tropisms as a collection to see why plants do certain things.
So what is a tropism? A tropism simply refers to the movement or growth of a living organism in response to environmental stimulus, with phototropism being a response to light which can be negative or positive, so a growth towards or away from light.
There are a vast number of tropisms, many that I have not heard of.
Where plants are concerned we can look at a couple of tropisms that specifically determine their reasons for growth in certain ways.
Phototropism - growth towards/away from light. This also encapsulates light colour, so a lot of these fancy LED lights that let you choose a specific colour spectrum can instigate phototropism in different ways.
Geotropism or Gravitropism - this is the plants response to gravity and it can also be positive and negative. Roots adhere to negative geotropism by growing downwards towards gravity and stems (when not externally manipulated) have a positive geotropic growth upwards, fighting against gravity, with the aid of phototropism (in most cases)
Hydrotropism - response to water. This is mainly to do with root masses 'sensing' water within a substrate and growing in that direction.
Hygrotropism - response to humidity
Chemtropism - response to chemical stimulus
There are many more, however I think those ones are probably the most important ones where a cannabis plant is concerned. Incidentally @orrganic I think the picture you provided above is an example of plagiotropism which is in fact a type of geotropism.
If you look right at the bottom of this article you can see a description of it, which is basically the best I could find for you without photocopying one of my science books
http://plantsinaction.science.uq.edu.au/edition1/?q=content/8-2-1-gravitropism
That website above is a link to a brilliant book, all the chapters are there. Its old school science but it factual at least
So now that we know what kind of stimulus plants respond to, in order to find the reasons for this 'praying' you have to look at what stage of growth the plant is in. The reason for that is all down to phytohormones which are the plants hormones. Like humans, plant hormones are present at various stages in a plants life, in different concentrations and in different parts of the plant.
There is something called the Cholodny–Went model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholodny–Went_model )
I don't know a whole lot about this to be honest with you, mainly because its specifics have been disputed, but it has largely stood the test of time because it gets a lot of things right.
The thing that bothers me with this model is the hypothesis that auxin is the only phytohormone that lends towards geotropism and phototropism, which I don't personally think is true, but hey I'm no genius and that guy probably was, so what do I know?
So what I'm trying to say is that depending on the stimulus in question, you have to consider what stage the plant is in its life in order to determine which particular phytohormones it is producing and then you can begin to explain why your plant is doing certain things.
Plant hormones are some of the most vital chemicals within any plant as they regulate pretty much everything that a plant does from seedling to death.
Having a look here : ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_hormone ) you can see that plant hormones affect seed growth, time of flowering, the sex of flowers, senescence of leaves, and fruits. They affect which tissues grow upward and which grow downward, leaf formation and stem growth, fruit development and ripening, plant longevity, and even plant death.
(I have just copy and pasted that from the article by the way)
With this in mind, we can look at auxins in particular. They are present pretty much throughout the entire lifetime of the plant I believe and they certainly do lend towards phototropism and geotropism. Auxins exist across the entire plant, however their concentrations vary.
The plant will use the different concentrations of auxins as information on how to develop and also where to develop. So a plant that contains a great concentration of auxins in particular areas will see an area where it is getting a lot of information from.
Now this is the bit that I am a bit unsure of, I think that what happens is auxins are present greatly in elongated cells which in turn are present on parts of a plant that are the farthest away from their light source. The auxins themselves move throughout the plant using active transport and this requires cellular energy which is why a lot of people say that it happens on 'healthy looking' plants.
The plant needs to be creating energy for its processes to occur correctly, mostly. This roughly translates into being healthy.
The tip of a plants stem is another source of information, however I forget the name of this, sorry.
Combine these two sources of information and that is generally enough for the plant to know which direction to grow in. This is why you see a lean towards the sun in outdoor plants < that is a mass generalisation I know, but it was the easiest example I can think of lol.
Now in an indoor grow room where the light source is much closer to the plant and in a 'boxed off area' so to speak, usually within a tent or room, the light can seem omnidirectional due to reflecting surfaces, however it will have an original source (the bulb) which is elevated above the plant and generally does't move like the sun would outside. If you consider that it is entirely possible for a plant to have similar concentrations of auxin and other phytohormones across most of its areas/cells, then in turn it is entirely plausible for a plant to respond in that praying fashion at any point of its life.
Also I wouldn't overlook geotropism having a lot to do with this as plants seem to respond to light and gravity in coherence with each other from what I have learned. Even looking into plants 'breathing in' when their roots respond to geotropism and hydrotropism as possible things that help towards praying isn't beyond the scope of reality. There is nothing to suggest that a plant responding to geotropism, phototropism, hydrotropism and hygrotropism all at the same time can't look like this”
username: Pop22
Source: autoflower.net
“Can't remember where i read it but a new theory is that the plant "tunes" the leaves when light is intense to better absorb certain spectrum, by changing the angle at which the light strikes the chloroplasts.”
Anyway, from what I’ve seen and experienced, it hasn’t ever seemed to have a detrimental effect, and is usually on the healthier plants, so definitely not something I would worry about, but ibut thus far there is no confirmed reasoning for the plant displaying this behaviour to my knowledge.
I believe the leaves would ultimately be able to more effectively photosynthesise being horizontal and increasing their surface area, but that’s just in my head, with no science!
There are some pieces of info out there, but I don’t believe it is really understood at this point, though I imagine with all the legalisation going on, this is something we will probably understand further in the near future.
here’s a couple of interesting posts I’ve found relating to this:
source: Autoflower.net
Username: Doogal
“I've had this 'praying' stature show up on hundreds of different plants that I've grown over the years and my personal conclusion has been that there are MANY reasons for it, but most importantly I think is to recognise why its happening at different times during the plants life and what it means at each specific stage.
Wxguy was in fact correct when he talked about phototropism being the reason behind it, however plants have a few different 'tropisms' that affect them and we have to look more closely at the tropisms as a collection to see why plants do certain things.
So what is a tropism? A tropism simply refers to the movement or growth of a living organism in response to environmental stimulus, with phototropism being a response to light which can be negative or positive, so a growth towards or away from light.
There are a vast number of tropisms, many that I have not heard of.
Where plants are concerned we can look at a couple of tropisms that specifically determine their reasons for growth in certain ways.
Phototropism - growth towards/away from light. This also encapsulates light colour, so a lot of these fancy LED lights that let you choose a specific colour spectrum can instigate phototropism in different ways.
Geotropism or Gravitropism - this is the plants response to gravity and it can also be positive and negative. Roots adhere to negative geotropism by growing downwards towards gravity and stems (when not externally manipulated) have a positive geotropic growth upwards, fighting against gravity, with the aid of phototropism (in most cases)
Hydrotropism - response to water. This is mainly to do with root masses 'sensing' water within a substrate and growing in that direction.
Hygrotropism - response to humidity
Chemtropism - response to chemical stimulus
There are many more, however I think those ones are probably the most important ones where a cannabis plant is concerned. Incidentally @orrganic I think the picture you provided above is an example of plagiotropism which is in fact a type of geotropism.
If you look right at the bottom of this article you can see a description of it, which is basically the best I could find for you without photocopying one of my science books
http://plantsinaction.science.uq.edu.au/edition1/?q=content/8-2-1-gravitropism
That website above is a link to a brilliant book, all the chapters are there. Its old school science but it factual at least
So now that we know what kind of stimulus plants respond to, in order to find the reasons for this 'praying' you have to look at what stage of growth the plant is in. The reason for that is all down to phytohormones which are the plants hormones. Like humans, plant hormones are present at various stages in a plants life, in different concentrations and in different parts of the plant.
There is something called the Cholodny–Went model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholodny–Went_model )
I don't know a whole lot about this to be honest with you, mainly because its specifics have been disputed, but it has largely stood the test of time because it gets a lot of things right.
The thing that bothers me with this model is the hypothesis that auxin is the only phytohormone that lends towards geotropism and phototropism, which I don't personally think is true, but hey I'm no genius and that guy probably was, so what do I know?
So what I'm trying to say is that depending on the stimulus in question, you have to consider what stage the plant is in its life in order to determine which particular phytohormones it is producing and then you can begin to explain why your plant is doing certain things.
Plant hormones are some of the most vital chemicals within any plant as they regulate pretty much everything that a plant does from seedling to death.
Having a look here : ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_hormone ) you can see that plant hormones affect seed growth, time of flowering, the sex of flowers, senescence of leaves, and fruits. They affect which tissues grow upward and which grow downward, leaf formation and stem growth, fruit development and ripening, plant longevity, and even plant death.
(I have just copy and pasted that from the article by the way)
With this in mind, we can look at auxins in particular. They are present pretty much throughout the entire lifetime of the plant I believe and they certainly do lend towards phototropism and geotropism. Auxins exist across the entire plant, however their concentrations vary.
The plant will use the different concentrations of auxins as information on how to develop and also where to develop. So a plant that contains a great concentration of auxins in particular areas will see an area where it is getting a lot of information from.
Now this is the bit that I am a bit unsure of, I think that what happens is auxins are present greatly in elongated cells which in turn are present on parts of a plant that are the farthest away from their light source. The auxins themselves move throughout the plant using active transport and this requires cellular energy which is why a lot of people say that it happens on 'healthy looking' plants.
The plant needs to be creating energy for its processes to occur correctly, mostly. This roughly translates into being healthy.
The tip of a plants stem is another source of information, however I forget the name of this, sorry.
Combine these two sources of information and that is generally enough for the plant to know which direction to grow in. This is why you see a lean towards the sun in outdoor plants < that is a mass generalisation I know, but it was the easiest example I can think of lol.
Now in an indoor grow room where the light source is much closer to the plant and in a 'boxed off area' so to speak, usually within a tent or room, the light can seem omnidirectional due to reflecting surfaces, however it will have an original source (the bulb) which is elevated above the plant and generally does't move like the sun would outside. If you consider that it is entirely possible for a plant to have similar concentrations of auxin and other phytohormones across most of its areas/cells, then in turn it is entirely plausible for a plant to respond in that praying fashion at any point of its life.
Also I wouldn't overlook geotropism having a lot to do with this as plants seem to respond to light and gravity in coherence with each other from what I have learned. Even looking into plants 'breathing in' when their roots respond to geotropism and hydrotropism as possible things that help towards praying isn't beyond the scope of reality. There is nothing to suggest that a plant responding to geotropism, phototropism, hydrotropism and hygrotropism all at the same time can't look like this”
username: Pop22
Source: autoflower.net
“Can't remember where i read it but a new theory is that the plant "tunes" the leaves when light is intense to better absorb certain spectrum, by changing the angle at which the light strikes the chloroplasts.”
Anyway, from what I’ve seen and experienced, it hasn’t ever seemed to have a detrimental effect, and is usually on the healthier plants, so definitely not something I would worry about, but ibut thus far there is no confirmed reasoning for the plant displaying this behaviour to my knowledge.
Last edited:
fragileassassin
Well-Known Member
I've noticed mine do it more in the morning and a little before the lights turn off. They flatten out a bit during the day. My lights come on in an hour, I'll try to grab a pic when they do. This crop has been praying harder than I've had any do yet.
coreywebster
Well-Known Member
Ive heard conflicting opinion too, some saying they are praying because light is too intense and they are minimising surface area to compensate.
Regardless I would rather have them praying than drooping.
Regardless I would rather have them praying than drooping.
coreywebster
Well-Known Member
Maybe its more to do with transpiration , like a heatsink been able to dissipate quicker when the plant is functioning at a better rate.
We will have this figured out by 2030
We will have this figured out by 2030
.Smoke
Well-Known Member
DamnI see this question asked all the time, and people pop up and say “it’s praying to the sun gods, it’s awesome” etc, but nobody really has an explanation. I’m definitely not saying these people are wrong, nor do I have an explanation, though it does appear to be something which happens with healthy plants, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that this is a positive posture for the plant imo.
I believe the leaves would ultimately be able to more effectively photosynthesise being horizontal and increasing their surface area, but that’s just in my head, with no science!
There are some pieces of info out there, but I don’t believe it is really understood at this point, though I imagine with all the legalisation going on, this is something we will probably understand further in the near future.
here’s a couple of interesting posts I’ve found relating to this:
source: Autoflower.net
Username: Doogal
“I've had this 'praying' stature show up on hundreds of different plants that I've grown over the years and my personal conclusion has been that there are MANY reasons for it, but most importantly I think is to recognise why its happening at different times during the plants life and what it means at each specific stage.
Wxguy was in fact correct when he talked about phototropism being the reason behind it, however plants have a few different 'tropisms' that affect them and we have to look more closely at the tropisms as a collection to see why plants do certain things.
So what is a tropism? A tropism simply refers to the movement or growth of a living organism in response to environmental stimulus, with phototropism being a response to light which can be negative or positive, so a growth towards or away from light.
There are a vast number of tropisms, many that I have not heard of.
Where plants are concerned we can look at a couple of tropisms that specifically determine their reasons for growth in certain ways.
Phototropism - growth towards/away from light. This also encapsulates light colour, so a lot of these fancy LED lights that let you choose a specific colour spectrum can instigate phototropism in different ways.
Geotropism or Gravitropism - this is the plants response to gravity and it can also be positive and negative. Roots adhere to negative geotropism by growing downwards towards gravity and stems (when not externally manipulated) have a positive geotropic growth upwards, fighting against gravity, with the aid of phototropism (in most cases)
Hydrotropism - response to water. This is mainly to do with root masses 'sensing' water within a substrate and growing in that direction.
Hygrotropism - response to humidity
Chemtropism - response to chemical stimulus
There are many more, however I think those ones are probably the most important ones where a cannabis plant is concerned. Incidentally @orrganic I think the picture you provided above is an example of plagiotropism which is in fact a type of geotropism.
If you look right at the bottom of this article you can see a description of it, which is basically the best I could find for you without photocopying one of my science books
http://plantsinaction.science.uq.edu.au/edition1/?q=content/8-2-1-gravitropism
That website above is a link to a brilliant book, all the chapters are there. Its old school science but it factual at least
So now that we know what kind of stimulus plants respond to, in order to find the reasons for this 'praying' you have to look at what stage of growth the plant is in. The reason for that is all down to phytohormones which are the plants hormones. Like humans, plant hormones are present at various stages in a plants life, in different concentrations and in different parts of the plant.
There is something called the Cholodny–Went model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholodny–Went_model )
I don't know a whole lot about this to be honest with you, mainly because its specifics have been disputed, but it has largely stood the test of time because it gets a lot of things right.
The thing that bothers me with this model is the hypothesis that auxin is the only phytohormone that lends towards geotropism and phototropism, which I don't personally think is true, but hey I'm no genius and that guy probably was, so what do I know?
So what I'm trying to say is that depending on the stimulus in question, you have to consider what stage the plant is in its life in order to determine which particular phytohormones it is producing and then you can begin to explain why your plant is doing certain things.
Plant hormones are some of the most vital chemicals within any plant as they regulate pretty much everything that a plant does from seedling to death.
Having a look here : ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_hormone ) you can see that plant hormones affect seed growth, time of flowering, the sex of flowers, senescence of leaves, and fruits. They affect which tissues grow upward and which grow downward, leaf formation and stem growth, fruit development and ripening, plant longevity, and even plant death.
(I have just copy and pasted that from the article by the way)
With this in mind, we can look at auxins in particular. They are present pretty much throughout the entire lifetime of the plant I believe and they certainly do lend towards phototropism and geotropism. Auxins exist across the entire plant, however their concentrations vary.
The plant will use the different concentrations of auxins as information on how to develop and also where to develop. So a plant that contains a great concentration of auxins in particular areas will see an area where it is getting a lot of information from.
Now this is the bit that I am a bit unsure of, I think that what happens is auxins are present greatly in elongated cells which in turn are present on parts of a plant that are the farthest away from their light source. The auxins themselves move throughout the plant using active transport and this requires cellular energy which is why a lot of people say that it happens on 'healthy looking' plants.
The plant needs to be creating energy for its processes to occur correctly, mostly. This roughly translates into being healthy.
The tip of a plants stem is another source of information, however I forget the name of this, sorry.
Combine these two sources of information and that is generally enough for the plant to know which direction to grow in. This is why you see a lean towards the sun in outdoor plants < that is a mass generalisation I know, but it was the easiest example I can think of lol.
Now in an indoor grow room where the light source is much closer to the plant and in a 'boxed off area' so to speak, usually within a tent or room, the light can seem omnidirectional due to reflecting surfaces, however it will have an original source (the bulb) which is elevated above the plant and generally does't move like the sun would outside. If you consider that it is entirely possible for a plant to have similar concentrations of auxin and other phytohormones across most of its areas/cells, then in turn it is entirely plausible for a plant to respond in that praying fashion at any point of its life.
Also I wouldn't overlook geotropism having a lot to do with this as plants seem to respond to light and gravity in coherence with each other from what I have learned. Even looking into plants 'breathing in' when their roots respond to geotropism and hydrotropism as possible things that help towards praying isn't beyond the scope of reality. There is nothing to suggest that a plant responding to geotropism, phototropism, hydrotropism and hygrotropism all at the same time can't look like this”
username: Pop22
Source: autoflower.net
“Can't remember where i read it but a new theory is that the plant "tunes" the leaves when light is intense to better absorb certain spectrum, by changing the angle at which the light strikes the chloroplasts.”
Anyway, from what I’ve seen and experienced, it hasn’t ever seemed to have a detrimental effect, and is usually on the healthier plants, so definitely not something I would worry about, but ibut thus far there is no confirmed reasoning for the plant displaying this behaviour to my knowledge.
That's a lot of (good) info for 7:57 a.m...
You Brits need to adjust to 'Merica time
We're all still out hunting oil and cleaning our guns that early...
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fragileassassin
Well-Known Member
so thatd be on leaf temp huh? Just upped my light power and noticed them doing it a bit more now. I havent seen any burning from it yet, but my leaf temp went from 70-71 to 75-76
Tuckatan
Well-Known Member
Damn
That's a lot of (good) info for 7:57 a.m...
You Brits need to adjust to 'Merica time
We're all still out hunting oil and cleaning our guns that early...
And there was me at the same time of the morning sipping a cup of tea and eating a scone debating whether to go and play a touch of polo or nip down to London to Visit the Queen! How life differs across the pond huh 
.Smoke
Well-Known Member
Psst...that's why you guys lost the war...
Got to live there for 3 years. Miss it much! 70 miles NW of London @ RAF Mildenhall.
fragileassassin
Well-Known Member
Lights have been on about 15 mins
Tuckatan
Well-Known Member
I instantly sat up and began shaking my fist in the air at you for that comment... almost dropped my damn rich tea biscuitPsst...that's why you guys lost the war...
Got to live there for 3 years. Miss it much! 70 miles NW of London @ RAF Mildenhall.
I bet you’re sorry now!and I know the place, it’s about 50 miles from me! Wouldn’t say it’s the best holiday destination though
Cillit_Bang
Well-Known Member
nice to see a fellow Brit ahaha good day to you sir and all that jazz lol but I wouldn’t go to London right now if I was you, too many people with Corona Virus now !
Cillit_Bang
Well-Known Member
fragileassassin
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
This crop has been going very well so far. Theyre just getting to that wonderful stage where some of the flowers are starting to grow together.
Not even halfway there yet though.