Is anyone coming from 1000w mh/hps that is getting similar or better results with LEDs?

M

Mathimus

Member
All things aside, I am not asking about the cheapest methods, DIY builds or 3.21 jigawatts per foot. My only concern is getting results similar to/better than an air cooled 1000w HID in a 5x5 area - in terms of yield/quality and heat dissipation.

I know people swear by HLG style quantum boards but you could cook bacon and eggs on the back of the aluminum housings. This is an automatic ex off my list. Too much heat for my liking. Does anyone have experience with a Gavita or Fluence style bar light? This could be any style bar light. How is the heat? How did stretching compare to HIDs after flip to flower? How did the mass and weight compare to the same vertical space in HID?

Again, this is for people only coming from 1000w HIDs. Thank you for sharing your experience.
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
I think your misunderstanding the heat on the back of the heatsinks.

I couldn't cook eggs on mine, but regardless its not a representation of how much heat the light is putting off, its just how quickly its dissipated into the environment.

I could build a board or a strip using the same diodes and put a big heatsink on one and minimal heat sink on the other, one would read at say 50c and the other 30c but the heat the light is putting into the space would still be the same, just one is dissipating it into the air faster than the other. The cooler one is warming the air the same degree as the hotter one.

Anyhow to answer your question, @jimihendrix1 owns a gavita LED so he's the man to ask about that.

@hybridway2 has amare bar lights so he could chime in on those.
 
M

Mathimus

Member
coreywebster said:
I think your misunderstanding the heat on the back of the heatsinks.

I couldn't cook eggs on mine, but regardless its not a representation of how much heat the light is putting off, its just how quickly its dissipated into the environment.

I could build a board or a strip using the same diodes and put a big heatsink on one and minimal heat sink on the other, one would read at say 50c and the other 30c but the heat the light is putting into the space would still be the same, just one is dissipating it into the air faster than the other. The cooler one is warming the air the same degree as the hotter one.

Anyhow to answer your question, @jimihendrix1 owns a gavita LED so he's the man to ask about that.

@hybridway2 has amare bar lights so he could chime in on those.
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Thank you for that. I'm completely new to LEDs. Lucky for me, my local shop has HLGs running their perpetual grow, along with a few others, and I'm pretty sure I could cook over easy eggs with those things running at 100.

This is not meant a shot at people that use them. I know they give good results in terms of light output and growth. They're just not for my particular application running in a smaller enclosed space - because they run significantly hotter than air cooled HIDs.
 
jimihendrix1

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
The back of the strips on the Gavita run cool wnough that you can kep your hand on them, with no problem.

The 1700e puts out at least 60% less heat than an HID.
In a 70f room the Gavita may run the temps at the top of the canopy to 84f, at 20 inches. HPS may get over 110f. DE Gavita will be off the charts, with huge IR.
 
M

Mathimus

Member
jimihendrix1 said:
The back of the strips on the Gavita run cool wnough that you can kep your hand on them, with no problem.

The 1700e puts out at least 60% less heat than an HID.
In a 70f room the Gavita may run the temps at the top of the canopy to 84f, at 20 inches. HPS may get over 110f. DE Gavita will be off the charts, with huge IR.
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Nice, do you have any threads or photos with results? Gavita was actually at the top of my list along with Amare and Growlogic. Just trying to narrow it down. My space is a sealed built 6x13 area with only 74" of vertical space. A cockroach could fart and it would probably blow the walls off. Are you using any type of automation with yours?
 
jimihendrix1

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
No Im in an unfriendly state, and the most Ive really ever posted is photos of a few buds, and seed collection.

Ours is just a small operation, and we dont use any automation, and also water by hand. Medium is Promix BX, and food is

Hydro Farms
Chem Gro Fertilizer
15.5-0-0 Calcium Nitrate
4-20-39 base formula
Epsom Salts
0-52-34. Monopotassium phosphate.. In an 8 weeks strain we use this in weeks 2.5-4, and then bump up more Epsom Salts in weeks 5-6, then back of to around the same basic strength as week 4, but No MPK.


We also gro large plants, in large containers, because of plant numbers.
1 strain we have. Mr Nice Super Silver Haze will produce at least 20oz per plant in a 20 gallon container with 6-7 weeks veg under 1000w Hortilux HPS. We start seeds, and rooted clones under Hortilux 1000w usually. At a best we get 24oz per plant.

At the moment we are only Vegging with the 1700e, vs 1000w Hortilux and in a month or so will try it in flowering. Seems to work as well as HPS for veg.

This is one branch from a tree we grew. It was 56 grams dry, and off the stem. Plant produced 24oz. This is also no CO2, and is in an open room. Not a tent. We do have really good fresh air flow, and keep fans running 24 hours a day, even when lights are out. We also shake our plants physically to make them develop stronger stems, and branches.



We also Bend our plants over at an early age to grow horizontally. All the side branching becomes huge branches. We also dont top, and rely on stretch to produce more branching. Mr Nice SSH can stretch up to 4x-6x depending on pheno.

Branch is on my guitar case, and is almost 2 feet long.

1588849473951.png
 
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2Hearts

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
The hps is hotter because it has more combined light, why are you putting a thermometer above any canopy anyway, suppose to be reading air not baking a thermometer in the light.

At 110f you wouldnt have a canopy.


jimihendrix1 said:
The back of the strips on the Gavita run cool wnough that you can kep your hand on them, with no problem.

The 1700e puts out at least 60% less heat than an HID.
In a 70f room the Gavita may run the temps at the top of the canopy to 84f, at 20 inches. HPS may get over 110f. DE Gavita will be off the charts, with huge IR.
Click to expand...
 
TreeFarmerCharlie

TreeFarmerCharlie

Well-Known Member
One thing to remember is, that when it come to heat, watts are watts, and 1,000W of HPS will create the same amount of heat as 1,000W of LED. The reason LED lights “run cooler” is because they are more efficient and can create more light from lower wattage. In other words...you are able to reduce the heat because you can run lower wattage with LEDs.
 
2Hearts

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
Even using mixed spectrums if i put the same amount of light in the same space on the same plants they will feel about the same effect of heat and have to transpire just as much as each other. I get led is more efficient as some say but you can air cool the hid and it runs cooler than an led unit, the same amount of light will be the same to the plants and tent still.

Leds are wonderfull lights i just struggle with their sales patter.

TreeFarmerCharlie said:
One thing to remember is, that when it come to heat, watts are watts, and 1,000W of HPS will create the same amount of heat as 1,000W of LED. The reason LED lights “run cooler” is because they are more efficient and can create more light from lower wattage. In other words...you are able to reduce the heat because you can run lower wattage with LEDs.
Click to expand...
 
TreeFarmerCharlie

TreeFarmerCharlie

Well-Known Member
2Hearts said:
Even using mixed spectrums if i put the same amount of light in the same space on the same plants they will feel about the same effect of heat and have to transpire just as much as each other. I get led is more efficient as some say but you can air cool the hid and it runs cooler than an led unit, the same amount of light will be the same to the plants and tent still.

Leds are wonderfull lights i just struggle with their sales patter.
Click to expand...
You could air cool LED, too, it would just be a lot more difficult to build an enclosure to wrap around and enclose them in.
 
2Hearts

2Hearts

Well-Known Member
TreeFarmerCharlie said:
You could air cool LED, too, it would just be a lot more difficult to build an enclosure to wrap around and enclose them in.
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Its no big thing i just never got a lot of the led stuff as much as what its meant to be. Great lights but a big market just so much sounds like competition than believable to a point.

Either works for me as 1000w is a good yeild.
 
M

Mathimus

Member
TreeFarmerCharlie said:
One thing to remember is, that when it come to heat, watts are watts, and 1,000W of HPS will create the same amount of heat as 1,000W of LED. The reason LED lights “run cooler” is because they are more efficient and can create more light from lower wattage. In other words...you are able to reduce the heat because you can run lower wattage with LEDs.
Click to expand...
Understand. I think I'm just spoiled from running air cooled hoods. I ran 2 ducted 1000w digilux at full blast with a hyper fan at no more than 60% power and could put my hand on the bottom of the glass or anywhere on the fixture, as it was only warm. I guess my quandry with LEDs is they don't have the ability to be cooled in such a way.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Mathimus said:
Thank you for that. I'm completely new to LEDs. Lucky for me, my local shop has HLGs running their perpetual grow, along with a few others, and I'm pretty sure I could cook over easy eggs with those things running at 100.

This is not meant a shot at people that use them. I know they give good results in terms of light output and growth. They're just not for my particular application running in a smaller enclosed space - because they run significantly hotter than air cooled HIDs.
Click to expand...
I just changed over 4 of 7 1K HPS Jupiter 6 hooded fixtures to 1 HLG 550 Lm301B and 3 custom boards built with Lm301H Samsung and driven by Mean Well drivers. These put out a bit more light energy then the HLG and the heat has gone down in the room by about 17 deg F and the cooling set up runs significantly less then before. I don't have to run cooling lines between them and that save me electric too. Not to mention the 52% reduction in the power used to run the lights them selves.

The only loss reported by my friend whom turned me on to these custom made boards? His plants don't color up like they used to. We both say "So what?" with all the benefit's.

While mine have just gone up and some of them are over plants being harvested. It's the one's with new plant under them I'm watching the most.
Tiome will tell and I'm just about to post the room as a side by side of LED equivalent vs 1K HPS.

This is a bloom room ONLY and I have now real plans at this time to swap the T'5s out of the veg room. I'll likely change the other bloom room over next too. An increase in profits of over $1K a month......

Heat from these boards are WAY more manageable then HID in the form of 1K and more so over DE HID.

Be on the look out for this thread - It should be posted today or tomorrow. Once I can pry my work at home wife's fingers from the PC.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Mathimus said:
Understand. I think I'm just spoiled from running air cooled hoods. I ran 2 ducted 1000w digilux at full blast with a hyper fan at no more than 60% power and could put my hand on the bottom of the glass or anywhere on the fixture, as it was only warm. I guess my quandry with LEDs is they don't have the ability to be cooled in such a way.
Click to expand...
They do not put out the same amounts of heat - period!
 
R

Rags82

Member
Just started using 2 roi680e's a couple months ago havent had a harvest off them yet. I have a couple pretty reliable sources telling me with all other factors being in check and a good producing strain to expect upwards of 3 lbs per fixture with co2. Realistically I'm hoping for somewhere between 1 and 2 with how I have things set up. Seems like pretty good fixtures as long as height isn't an issue.
 

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jimihendrix1

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
I can easily cool a 1000w HID, or 1150w DE, and for the money HID is still king for me. Hortilux 1000w bulbs $60usd. I replace them every 70 days of 24 hours veg, and every 130 days flowering. We get $250oz for the weed so 1oz more than pays for 4 HPS bulbs.

We replace the DE Gavita bulb every 10 months at 24 hours. 20 months for 12 hours.
 
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