Lockdowns don't work.

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I've come to never expect a single shred of intelligence from your equivalent of social media vomit. You went wild over HCQ and defended your posts endorsing it. This is no different.

That letter to the editor very carefully ignored the demonstrated effectiveness of containment measures -- widespread testing, contact tracing and isolation protocols. It ignored the purpose of lockdowns which get runaway rates of new infections under control and reduce them to the level where containment measures can be implemented.

We are in a tight spot because there is no vaccine. That virus arrived with a cost. It can be minimized but even the minimum cost is more than anybody would willingly pay. The only question is how much more will it cost us? What that dumb ass letter said was -- sacrifice everybody who is vulnerable because, no choice. There is a choice. What lockdowns are buying us is time to get controls in place. What that letter and all the other propaganda coming from Republicans council is failure. We really only get one shot at saving lives and you seem to be trying to defeat those efforts.

That was a dumb ass letter to the editor and plays right into Trump's Republican propaganda tune. From dumbass hopey cure-alls like HCQ and this bullshit letter that you posted, you are playing the Republican tune. The incessant drumbeat of bullshit fake science from you make me think you are a troll.
You've got 6 months until election day and two and a half more after that of Trump, over 8 months to go and the body count ia over 75,000 in a little over 2 months. It's projected to be 3000 dead a day soon and there are alot of days until Trump is gone.
 

spek9

Well-Known Member
It's projected to be 3000 dead a day soon and there are alot of days until Trump is gone.
Always look on the bright side. The chances that Trump will become a notch on the fatality scale is getting closer to the Oval Office by the day. (Pence too)
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Horse shit. You posted a bullshit letter to the editor that promotes right wing desires to sacrifice people in order to make money. It wasn't new, informative or useful. It might even fit the definition of porn. No redeeming value and of prurient interest. Like a judge says about porn, I can tell bullshit when I see it and that was bullshit.

Blue states aren't towing Trump's line.
What's the thread title again? It's relevant to the discussion and articulates the opposing (misguided Swedish view) view clearly, I choose to disagree with it as do you.

You are conflating two different things, the fruit cake and unethical "experiment" in Sweden with Trump's fantasy reopening efforts. What you have in America right now is a replication of what is going on in Sweden with limited reopenings even in some blue states, for all practical purposes America is Sweden but without the compliant cooperative social aspects.

Trump and crowd are using what is going on in Sweden to bolster their case, but it's not exactly a shining model.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Always look on the bright side. The chances that Trump will become a notch on the fatality scale is getting closer to the Oval Office by the day. (Pence too)
Donald will have the very best treatment, but I still hope they have to at least intubate him!
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
What's the thread title again? It's relevant to the discussion and articulates the opposing (misguided Swedish view) view clearly, I choose to disagree with it as do you.

You are conflating two different things, the fruit cake and unethical "experiment" in Sweden with Trump's fantasy reopening efforts. What you have in America right now is a replication of what is going on in Sweden with limited reopenings even in some blue states, for all practical purposes America is Sweden but without the compliant cooperative social aspects.

Trump and crowd are using what is going on in Sweden to bolster their case, but it's not exactly a shining model.
I'm recounting just some of your pseudo-science that I managed to read without gacking before I could finish them.

That letter to the editor was simply bullshit propaganda that you recited as if it deserved attention. Propaganda is best ignored. If it can't be ignored then vigorous counter-measures are the next best thing. Consider my post a counter to the propaganda you so ignorantly repeated. It's not you, babe, it's what you cited that I object to.

You should stick to counseling on meditation. You might even be taken seriously if you do.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Always look on the bright side. The chances that Trump will become a notch on the fatality scale is getting closer to the Oval Office by the day. (Pence too)
The person who prepared those projections said they were one third of an set of modelling runs. The are projections and steps can be taken to save lives by changing course. Trump hasn't dragged us through the worst of the epidemic yet although he's trying hard to do so. It's far from a done deal, which is what Trump and you, apparently, are telling us.

If you go here, you can access state-by-state projections. States that are planning a rational sequence to open up aren't projected to have many problems with the virus. Because lockdowns work. I hope the Gov. of Alabama changes his mind about how he plans to open up his state's economy. He's clearly been warned about a health disaster if he goes through with his plans. Thousands will die who would not have otherwise. He can't claim he didn't know. Please keep in mind that I'm angry about that and not simply because Republican propaganda pap seems to go through you like grass goes through a goose. You shit everywhere you go. But I'm more bothered by what is going on rather than your poop.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I'm recounting just some of your pseudo-science that I managed to read without gacking before I could finish them.

That letter to the editor was simply bullshit propaganda that you recited as if it deserved attention. Propaganda is best ignored. If it can't be ignored then vigorous counter-measures are the next best thing. Consider my post a counter to the propaganda you so ignorantly repeated. It's not you, babe, it's what you cited that I object to.

You should stick to counseling on meditation. You might even be taken seriously if you do.
Counter the arguments he makes then and cut the ad hominem attacks, ya sound like AC when someone disagrees with him. Science is about examining facts and arguments to find the truth. The fact is America in one way or another is gonna replicate the Swedish experience only worse in some places, the policies are similar, but the behavior and attitude of the populace is different.

The argument that NPI's work is settled, there never was an argument really, the question before us is how to reopen the economy to the extent we can safely and the CDC answered that, but Trump buried the guide. He doesn't want to do testing because it makes his numbers look bad and he doesn't give a fuck about America or its people. States are on their own or grouping together to solve the testing issue at least, other issues require a national response and support though.

America's future in some states might look more like Sweden's than anywhere else, they don't test much there either.

Propaganda doesn't go over very well in the Lancet and the editors thought there was some validity to it, they did not censor it, they believe in science, open inquiry and discussion. He made the case better than AC and I figure that was the larger point his initial position of "lockdowns don't work" evolved into. The combination of government ineptitude, the highly contagious and stealthy nature of the disease with asymptomatic spread, give these points of view some merit, in America at least. Other countries have other options, many developing countries will deal with this plague the traditional way and America will too, to an extent, for as long as King Donald reigns in America.

The toll will be 3,000 a day soon or so some models say and it should stay like that for awhile. Americans are being sacrificed for the greater glory of Trump, he thinks it will help him win in November and that's all that matters to him. His next move is to try to dispute the numbers of dead etc.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Right now Trump and the GOP wanna starve ya out plain and simple, they would like to starve the states too, but that's a bridge too far. Americans will be forced back to work because there will be no more federal aid and they might start fucking with what has already been allocated. The problem with their plan is America is mostly a service economy and nobody is gonna be buying, the people decide about the economy and most don't want to leave home or have any money to buy anything anyway. Many businesses will go under opened or closed, there won't be enough customers to support most of them and whole sectors of the economy will be out of business.

Without enough testing outbreaks will become too large to control without complete shutdowns and local hospitals will become overwhelmed. Obviously the states that adhere to the (unpublished) CDC guidelines will do the best and those who open the most will not, how bad it gets depends on how stupid they get and how much heat Donald puts on them. So far Americans have only got a measly $1,200 and Mitch and the GOP don't wanna give out any more. Back to work or starve, but many will have no work to go back to, just a backlogged state unemployment system to depend on and a food bank. Rents and mortgages are going unpaid so the banks are gonna start howling soon and if they lock up yer in real deep shit.

Trump's plague and Trump's depression, MAGA
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Can states who are bankrupt run unemployment systems and give out benefits? Mitch wants to starve you out if he can, no more direct federal aid for as long as he has anything to do with it.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
South Korea is the model to emulate, they have very high testing levels, extensive contact tracing and isolate cases, they prove NPIs work. This article illustrates the difficulty in controlling the spread this virus unless extreme public health measures are taken, anything less will quickly lead to a resurgence. America is far from being up to the task under the current leadership, or lack of it I should say. See what happens when you allow bars and restaurants to reopen, younger people will partonise them as they usually do, since they are more horny than concerned about the virus. Any business that depends on concentrating people is out of business, concerts, churches, movies and sporting events are off the table too.
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SEOUL, May 10 (Reuters) - South Korea reported 34 new coronavirus cases on Sunday, the highest daily number in a month, after a small outbreak emerged around a slew of nightclubs that a confirmed patient had visited.

Of the new cases, 26 were domestically transmitted infections and eight were imported cases, the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) said.

Sunday’s total was the highest since April 9. After battling the first major epidemic outside China, South Korea posted zero or very few domestic cases over the past 10 days, with the daily tally hovering around 10 or less in recent weeks.

The resurgence followed a small but growing coronavirus outbreak centred in a handful of Seoul nightclubs, which a man in his late 20s had visited before testing positive for the virus.

At least 15 people were traced to that man as of Friday, and 14 of the 26 cases were reported from Seoul on Sunday, though the KCDC did not specify how many were linked.

Seoul city officials say they have a list of about 1,500 people who have gone to the clubs, and authorities have asked anyone who was there last weekend to self-isolate for 14 days and be tested.

The outbreak came just as South Korea has eased some social distancing restrictions and is seeking to fully reopen schools and businesses.

President Moon Jae-in warned of a second wave of the epidemic, saying the recent cluster underscored the risks that the virus which causes COVID-19 can spread widely again at any time.

“It’s not over until it’s over. While keeping enhanced alertness till the end, we must never lower our guard regarding epidemic prevention,” he said in a televised speech marking the third anniversary of his inauguration.

“It will be a long time before the COVID-19 outbreak has ended completely. We should also brace for the pandemic’s second wave.”
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
I went to the grocery store yesterday in the small town close to where I live and did a bit of a rough count of mask wearers versus non mask wearers (lets call them cunts). Out of the approx. 28 that were in there, 3 including me, wore masks. The cunts were too selfish and vain to wear one I guess. I strongly suggest masks should be made mandatory for everyone with strong oversight in place. I once asked if we could shoot infected people that leave their house and break isolation, it was a rhetorical question that the dick OP tried to use as some kind of a winning strategy for his argument (that he lost and has since left the building in tears) for sacrificing the old and weak so he could spend time at the beach. Now I ask, Can we shoot people that don’t wear a mask? Just curious lol.
 

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
I suited up for my bi-weekly grocery shopping ordeal yesterday. Of the 30 or so people in the store there were 2 of us wearing a mask. The isles are marked with one way arrows on the floor and half of the people either ignored them or were oblivious.

It makes you wonder are these people stupid or have they been living in a cave the past 3 months!
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
My experiences on the east coast of Canada is much the same a minority are wearing masks and most others are not, those who are older and have health issues are the one's who wear them the most. I've got an N95 and when we get enough of them it makes more sense for those who are vulnerable at least to wear them, as for the rest a surgical or other mask will do. I think most work places should require masks to be worn if they want to help reopen the economy, no public transport without a mask either.

We need masks, testing, contact tracing and case isolation if we are to have any hope at all, hopefully the governments have that in hand, in Canada at least. No bars. eat in restaurants, movies, churches or sporting venues either. I hope they work out the swab issue with the spartan cube fast testing machine soon, it will be very useful to businesses for testing employees. The machines are fine and they are continuing the manufacture, its just the test swabs they use are causing a problem.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

Southern California birthday party blamed for virus cluster

A recent birthday party in Pasadena, California, is being blamed for a cluster of five coronavirus cases that could continue to grow, health officials said Saturday.

The Pasadena Public Health Department used contact tracing — investigating the history of contact between a patient and others — to discover the cluster, officials said. Five people tested positive, but health officials found "many more ill individuals" whose tests were not yet reported, the department said in a statement.

"The party was attended by a large number of extended family members and friends after the Safer at Home Order was issued," the statement said.

"The index case, or the first patient in the outbreak identified with the disease, was coughing and not wearing a face covering at the party. Guests were also not wearing face coverings or practicing social distancing."

City spokeswoman Lisa Derderian said the party took place around Easter, April 12, at a private home where attendees were inside and outdoors. "No social distancing, face covering or masks," she said by email.

"One family member joked she was coughing and probably had the virus," Derderian said.

The spokeswoman said that by law positive COVID-19 cases must be reported to the health department. Officials there credit contact tracing with preventing the cluster from becoming an outright outbreak because patients have been identified and isolated.

"We’re grateful to our large team of public health nurses, case investigators, and contact tracers who help track the virus and prevent the disease from spreading to other members of our community," the department's Dr. Matthew Feaster said in its statement.

Officials say the case illustrates why it wouldn't be wise to gather for Mother's Day on Sunday.

"Our fear is people will gather on Mother’s Day with a false sense of security because more retail, even if just curbside, is opening up around us," Derderian said. "Don’t give into guilt of physically seeing mom unless she’s physically been in your immediate household otherwise the guilt will be more extreme after the fact if mom or grandma be some ill."

Pasadena officials have reported 542 cases and 65 deaths.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
My experiences on the east coast of Canada is much the same a minority are wearing masks and most others are not, those who are older and have health issues are the one's who wear them the most. I've got an N95 and when we get enough of them it makes more sense for those who are vulnerable at least to wear them, as for the rest a surgical or other mask will do. I think most work places should require masks to be worn if they want to help reopen the economy, no public transport without a mask either.

We need masks, testing, contact tracing and case isolation if we are to have any hope at all, hopefully the governments have that in hand, in Canada at least. No bars. eat in restaurants, movies, churches or sporting venues either. I hope they work out the swab issue with the spartan cube fast testing machine soon, it will be very useful to businesses for testing employees. The machines are fine and they are continuing the manufacture, its just the test swabs they use are causing a problem.
Just to clarify, and everyone needs to know this, masks are not used for YOUR PROTECTION, they are to protect others!! If people are so fucking ignorant to not want to protect there fellow citizens then they need to be forced to care!!! No....it’s not the most vulnerable here that are the only ones. The boomers (I’m a boomer) seem to be just as complacent as everyone. I find myself looking at them all with disgust, god help anyone that questions why I’m looking at them like they are the cunts they are. I have no issue spotlighting their total disregard for others in a public forum.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member

Southern California birthday party blamed for virus cluster

A recent birthday party in Pasadena, California, is being blamed for a cluster of five coronavirus cases that could continue to grow, health officials said Saturday.

The Pasadena Public Health Department used contact tracing — investigating the history of contact between a patient and others — to discover the cluster, officials said. Five people tested positive, but health officials found "many more ill individuals" whose tests were not yet reported, the department said in a statement.

"The party was attended by a large number of extended family members and friends after the Safer at Home Order was issued," the statement said.

"The index case, or the first patient in the outbreak identified with the disease, was coughing and not wearing a face covering at the party. Guests were also not wearing face coverings or practicing social distancing."

City spokeswoman Lisa Derderian said the party took place around Easter, April 12, at a private home where attendees were inside and outdoors. "No social distancing, face covering or masks," she said by email.

"One family member joked she was coughing and probably had the virus," Derderian said.

The spokeswoman said that by law positive COVID-19 cases must be reported to the health department. Officials there credit contact tracing with preventing the cluster from becoming an outright outbreak because patients have been identified and isolated.

"We’re grateful to our large team of public health nurses, case investigators, and contact tracers who help track the virus and prevent the disease from spreading to other members of our community," the department's Dr. Matthew Feaster said in its statement.

Officials say the case illustrates why it wouldn't be wise to gather for Mother's Day on Sunday.

"Our fear is people will gather on Mother’s Day with a false sense of security because more retail, even if just curbside, is opening up around us," Derderian said. "Don’t give into guilt of physically seeing mom unless she’s physically been in your immediate household otherwise the guilt will be more extreme after the fact if mom or grandma be some ill."

Pasadena officials have reported 542 cases and 65 deaths.
So are there plans to charge everyone at that party with assault? They should be! They’ve now put untold others at risk, including the frontline workers that serve them. It’s fucking disgusting IMO. My girlfriend has not held her new granddaughter since the birth 3 weeks ago yet every other family member on the daughter-in-law’s side has held, cuddled, even had a photo shoot. My girlfriend has had an emotional struggle but could not endure the chance of infecting them or me. I have told her her strength and resolve should be the norm for all caring humans!!! She should be proud of her caring!!!
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Just to clarify, and everyone needs to know this, masks are not used for YOUR PROTECTION, they are to protect others!! If people are so fucking ignorant to not want to protect there fellow citizens then they need to be forced to care!!! No....it’s not the most vulnerable here that are the only ones. The boomers (I’m a boomer) seem to be just as complacent as everyone. I find myself looking at them all with disgust, god help anyone that questions why I’m looking at them like they are the cunts they are. I have no issue spotlighting their total disregard for others in a public forum.
I agree with you about masks, in general, but I think the government should make an extra effort to distribute N95s to the vulnerable when they become available. It's up to the provincial and federal governments (planes trains and buses) to make it mandatory and enforce it, I doesn't mean you can't call those who don't wear them cunts though! Throwing a can of beans at their heads in the grocery store might be frowned upon by the authorities, unless ya catch them licking the products, then all bets are off!

I think you'll see masks made mandatory, it will slow the spread and make some business activity possible, surgical or other types of masks for everybody in public, unless isolated and alone, the extra protection of an N95 for the vulnerable when we can get them. Masks, testing contact tracing, isolation of cases and effective treatments are the way it will pan out IMHO, if we do that, we can control outbreaks instead of locking down completely. We need to knock down the number of cases and show a steady decline before we do anything and without fast testing we are flying blind.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
So are there plans to charge everyone at that party with assault? They should be! They’ve now put untold others at risk, including the frontline workers that serve them. It’s fucking disgusting IMO. My girlfriend has not held her new granddaughter since the birth 3 weeks ago yet every other family member on the daughter-in-law’s side has held, cuddled, even had a photo shoot. My girlfriend has had an emotional struggle but could not endure the chance of infecting them or me. I have told her her strength and resolve should be the norm for all caring humans!!! She should be proud of her caring!!!
Sorry to hear about your girlfriend, many parents and grandparents are going through the same thing along with the fear of illness and ending up in a hospital. It's one of the reasons that Trump will lose or might even be impeached again, seniors are turning on him and the GOP for throwing them under the bus and fucking up their family relations and support. Most older people remember a time when America could get shit done, like go to the moon, they know what a competent government can do because they remember when they had one. Under normal leadership this crisis is a major problem and challenge, under Trump it's a fucking disaster.

Government regulation and public education to change attitudes are what we need as far as masks go, also a plentiful supply wouldn't hurt either. Offering masks at the entrance of stores would be a good idea, buy before you enter if you don't have one, they need to be available too. A cop should offer someone a mask first and warn them before they charge them, people can take pictures and videos of offenders with their phones, lots can be done to bring normal folks around and isolate the real assholes for "special treatment".
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
I agree with you about masks, in general, but I think the government should make an extra effort to distribute N95s to the vulnerable when they become available. It's up to the provincial and federal governments (planes trains and buses) to make it mandatory and enforce it, I doesn't mean you can't call those who don't wear them cunts though! Throwing a can of beans at their heads in the grocery store might be frowned upon by the authorities, unless ya catch them licking the products, then all bets are off!

I think you'll see masks made mandatory, it will slow the spread and make some business activity possible, surgical or other types of masks for everybody in public, unless isolated and alone, the extra protection of an N95 for the vulnerable when we can get them. Masks, testing contact tracing, isolation of cases and effective treatments are the way it will pan out IMHO, if we do that, we can control outbreaks instead of locking down completely. We need to knock down the number of cases and show a steady decline before we do anything and without fast testing we are flying blind.
While true that 95’s offer more protection I would feel horrible wearing one while frontline workers are using theirs multiple times. So yes we need more but we need to ensure the healthcare workers and service providers are the first to be protected. For anyone else stay the fuck home and reduce the risk to others if you have to go out. Our area has had no new detected cases which seems to give the cunts a reason to not care. Once the infectoids from TO start to show up there will be hell to pay I fear. LOCKDOWNS WORK, and to proclaim anything but that is a fools folly.
 

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about your girlfriend, many parents and grandparents are going through the same thing along with the fear of illness and ending up in a hospital. It's one of the reasons that Trump will lose or might even be impeached again, seniors are turning on him and the GOP for throwing them under the bus and fucking up their family relations and support. Most older people remember a time when America could get shit done, like go to the moon, they know what a competent government can do because they remember when they had one. Under normal leadership this crisis is a major problem and challenge, under Trump it's a fucking disaster.

Government regulation and public education to change attitudes are what we need as far as masks go, also a plentiful supply wouldn't hurt either. Offering masks at the entrance of stores would be a good idea, buy before you enter if you don't have one, they need to be available too. A cop should offer someone a mask first and warn them before they charge them, people can take pictures and videos of offenders with their phones, lots can be done to bring normal folks around and isolate the real assholes for "special treatment".
And $150 fines would help too........u can make a mask for $1 with a needle and thread and a brain. But yes giving masks out is a great ideal along with the $150 lol
 
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