Is 1000 watt HPS overkill in 4X4 tent?

[getogrow]

i been doing this for YEARS and im just now thinking about switching to leds and one thing i have learned in my reading is that your not going to save a ton in electricity. You WILL see a savings but is it enough to cover up front costs ? not quite sure. The lighting gurus want you to have 30-50 watts per sqft of leds. So in your space 16x40w=640 actual watts. So like the dude up there said , 4 of them spiders would work great.

Now as far as heat. It doesnt matter if the 1000 watts is coming from one light bulb or spread across the whole 4x4 area .....its still 1000 watts of heat.
So if you go with the "low end" of leds, you'll need 480 watts. Thats half the heat so you would actually see a savings on that setup vs 1000watt hps.
480 watts in a 4x4 is still going to get hot so i assume you would still need an AC unit.
Thats how the efficiency works, now its up to you to decide what to buy. I, personally want to see the price drop a lil more on them nice leds but i dont see it happening in the next year.

Third choice is the cheap leds. i would pass on that tech but they do work.

 

[ComfortCreator]

PAR is a lot different than PPFD. It is important to understand that difference. A stronger light up higher will give you better PPFD. As will a well distributed fixture.

If you dont go HPS and want quantum boards, you should look at QB96s, or 4 individual qbs on heatsinks.

Its this simple...if you can buy a 1000hps and dim to 600, you will not need to buy another light when you get good at growing.

Whats the diff in cost??

 

[ComfortCreator]

i been doing this for YEARS and im just now thinking about switching to leds and one thing i have learned in my reading is that your not going to save a ton in electricity. You WILL see a savings but is it enough to cover up front costs ? not quite sure. The lighting gurus want you to have 30-50 watts per sqft of leds. So in your space 16x40w=640 actual watts. So like the dude up there said , 4 of them spiders would work great.

Now as far as heat. It doesnt matter if the 1000 watts is coming from one light bulb or spread across the whole 4x4 area .....its still 1000 watts of heat.
So if you go with the "low end" of leds, you'll need 480 watts. Thats half the heat so you would actually see a savings on that setup vs 1000watt hps.
480 watts in a 4x4 is still going to get hot so i assume you would still need an AC unit.
Thats how the efficiency works, now its up to you to decide what to buy. I, personally want to see the price drop a lil more on them nice leds but i dont see it happening in the next year.

Third choice is the cheap leds. i would pass on that tech but they do work.

True but consider this...more LED boards or strips run cooler has higher efficiency and very low heat.

The key to understand with LED is they get hot AT A CERTAIN wattage. For example, a QB run up to 60 watts gives off very little heat. At 100 watts it is a lot, and at 120watts its a space heater. They go to 150w and i wont even consider it.

So just saying with the right $$ i could build a 4x4 giving off very little heat which for someone in say FLA would be amazing.

 

[Oakiey]

Heck a 1000 will easily do a 4 by 4 in the middle of an open room

If those LEDs were all that good you wouldn't have to put them in a foil box

 

[getogrow]

The key to understand with LED is they get hot AT A CERTAIN wattage. For example, a QB run up to 60 watts gives off very little heat. At 100 watts it is a lot, and at 120watts its a space heater. They go to 150w and i wont even consider it.

This is EXACTLY what i am saying. A watt is a watt.

 

[ComfortCreator]

This is EXACTLY what i am saying. A watt is a watt.

Too many arguments are started HPS vs LED. Ill say this -- I have never heard a very experienced grower say HPS doesnt grow killer flower.

Anyone claiming LED is way better, or simply better, doesn't understand the nuance.

Likewise, anybody claiming LED doesnt cut it hasnt used good ones.

 

[getogrow]

Too many arguments are started HPS vs LED. Ill say this -- I have never heard a very experienced grower say HPS doesnt grow killer flower.

Anyone claiming LED is way better, or simply better, doesn't understand the nuance.

Likewise, anybody claiming LED doesnt cut it hasnt used good ones.

i "think" led may be slightly better if sent to a lab. im a hps only guy but im just assumming the mixed spectrum would help. I used to run MH and HPS side by side for the better spectrum. I couldnt "see" if it was any better but who knows....

I can promise you that hps is the easiest way to get the best flowers.

 

[ComfortCreator]

I think with unlimited budget, special controllers for sunrise, sunset, uvb and such, yes LED could be superior.

But LED has no infrared or uv in almost all fixtures...so HPS still does have unique qualities at a bargain price.

Did people really steal street lights in the earlier days...???

 

[getogrow]

Did people really steal street lights in the earlier days...???

Back in those days it would cost 1500 bucks for a 1000 watt setup , so yes we used to steal street lights instead. Not proud of it at all but thats what we did.

 

[Doug Dawson]

i been doing this for YEARS and im just now thinking about switching to leds and one thing i have learned in my reading is that your not going to save a ton in electricity. You WILL see a savings but is it enough to cover up front costs ? not quite sure. The lighting gurus want you to have 30-50 watts per sqft of leds. So in your space 16x40w=640 actual watts. So like the dude up there said , 4 of them spiders would work great.

Now as far as heat. It doesnt matter if the 1000 watts is coming from one light bulb or spread across the whole 4x4 area .....its still 1000 watts of heat.
So if you go with the "low end" of leds, you'll need 480 watts. Thats half the heat so you would actually see a savings on that setup vs 1000watt hps.
480 watts in a 4x4 is still going to get hot so i assume you would still need an AC unit.
Thats how the efficiency works, now its up to you to decide what to buy. I, personally want to see the price drop a lil more on them nice leds but i dont see it happening in the next year.

Third choice is the cheap leds. i would pass on that tech but they do work.

So do you not use HPS for Flower and MH for veg or just HPS all the time? 4 of those spider SP1000's or any other LED that has the correct coverage will cost over $800 Canadian yet I can get a 1000 watt Vivosun HPS/MH combo which has the dimmer for $300 with the enclosed reflector for cooling through vent lines. Canadian options are more limited and more costly than our brothers and sisters in the USA enjoy. Sadly to take advantage of those prices means someone charging insane shipping costs defeating the purpose. For me I find the idea of spending $800 to $1000 just for light that will grow my pot is just odd, by the time you have added everything up my first number of grows would have cost more than just buying the product and it wouldn't have taken all the effort. In the end I will likely go the HPS route until these manufacturers stop acting like the the LED's they are installing in their boards are made of diamonds. Growing as a hobby seems to have exploded out there and so have the prices of the items used for it. I would hope in time this will change.

 

[getogrow]

Yea , here in the states , i believe you can get the same setup you posted for 200 ish.
Yes i use hps only for flower but i have done it every way possible. (whole cycle of MH, whole cycle of HPS and flower with both at same time. ) Veg is big so we use multiple led bulbs.

 

[Doug Dawson]

i been doing this for YEARS and im just now thinking about switching to leds and one thing i have learned in my reading is that your not going to save a ton in electricity. You WILL see a savings but is it enough to cover up front costs ? not quite sure. The lighting gurus want you to have 30-50 watts per sqft of leds. So in your space 16x40w=640 actual watts. So like the dude up there said , 4 of them spiders would work great.

Now as far as heat. It doesnt matter if the 1000 watts is coming from one light bulb or spread across the whole 4x4 area .....its still 1000 watts of heat.
So if you go with the "low end" of leds, you'll need 480 watts. Thats half the heat so you would actually see a savings on that setup vs 1000watt hps.
480 watts in a 4x4 is still going to get hot so i assume you would still need an AC unit.
Thats how the efficiency works, now its up to you to decide what to buy. I, personally want to see the price drop a lil more on them nice leds but i dont see it happening in the next year.

Third choice is the cheap leds. i would pass on that tech but they do work.

I have to wonder how right or wrong the actual power draw people talk about is? For example, 4 SF1000 lights would only draw 400 watts. They are listed as Draw Power: 100.5W±5%@AC120V, meaning that those lights are only 2/3 of the power draw people say they need. This is why I wonder about these numbers. If you required 640 actual watts of power draw in a 4X4 tent it would mean you need 6.4 SP1000 lights in the tent. That seems pretty excessive. The SF4000 shows Draw power: 456.9W±5%@AC120V, even that one going by the numbers would require an additional 2 X SP1000 units to get to 640 watt power draw. I am happy I have time to look more into this. If I go with LED I may get an SP2000 and 2 SP1000's so I can have 2 that I can raise and lower individually in case of stretching plants. The debate in my mind continues, lol. Thanks for all your input.

 

[JimmiP]

The 1k bulb and ballast are good like others have previously stated. But 600w hps gives you the most bang for your buck. I have run 2, 600w hps in a 4x4 with no heat issues an inline fan couldn't handle. Just remember to adjust your relative humidity to the correct level for the average temperature of the room (with any light setup) and you will do just fine.

 

[coreywebster]

True but consider this...more LED boards or strips run cooler has higher efficiency and very low heat.

The key to understand with LED is they get hot AT A CERTAIN wattage. For example, a QB run up to 60 watts gives off very little heat. At 100 watts it is a lot, and at 120watts its a space heater. They go to 150w and i wont even consider it.

So just saying with the right $$ i could build a 4x4 giving off very little heat which for someone in say FLA would be amazing.

But if you had 10x QB at 60w vs 6x QB at 100w the heat would be the same, you would just have a bit more light on the more efficient set up.

 

[coreywebster]

Thanks for your reply. The 1000W is looking more like the way to go considering the cost of decent led coverage. I have to do some calculations with power consumption before I decide. I like the idea fo LED for less heat and lower power consumption but they are ridiculously expensive. With all other things purchased I would like to see some kind of return within the decade. What I am learning does have value but as a new grower the start up costs are obviously very high, especially when you see the horrific costs of some lighting.

Doug , LEDs are expensive especially from a standing start. As in your not growing and don't have a few pounds in your curing jars.

When your growing more weed than you can smoke then it doesn't seem so expensive.

Just crack on with a HPS, gain experience and if you feel the need in a couple of years then dive in to upgrading , by that time LEDs that produce a lot more light than HPS should be considerably more affordable and if not well you have a few friends who need a few ounce and it pays for itself.

 

[ComfortCreator]

But if you had 10x QB at 60w vs 6x QB at 100w the heat would be the same, you would just have a bit more light on the more efficient set up.

That is not true in practice.

I could run a full ceiling of boards at 40w or 60w and have no heat hardly at all.

The heat of a QB at 60w is not half what it is at 120w. I have not measured, but the temp gauges tell me the story clearly.

 

[ComfortCreator]

In the LED world there are "new" technologies all the time but efficiency is always the key.

For 1/3 the cost of new QBs, i bought the V1 boards. 8% less efficient, but at an efficiency of 2.5 wtf am i gaining getting to 2.6 or 2.7 with the newer boards and adding some far red?

The sweet spot is buying tech from a year or 2 back. Just like HPS wtf its so cheap anyone who can handle the heat and has vertical space its awfully cheap! Do you need the latest HPS? Same is true in LED. They did not just invent a completely new spectrum lol!

 

[getogrow]

That is not true in practice.

I could run a full ceiling of boards at 40w or 60w and have no heat hardly at all.

The heat of a QB at 60w is not half what it is at 120w. I have not measured, but the temp gauges tell me the story clearly.

This post is why i love these forums. Science vs real world. Science says the heat is the same but im with you kinda. I think 60 watts would prolly run cooler then half as cool as the same qb on 120w.
I learn more everyday about these leds. I agree with Comfort saying you should start with a HPS. its much cheaper and ALL the info needed is very easy to come across. The info on the LEDS is still coming in ....more an more real world stories everyday.

I know a guy who swears by 50% less in real world. He says that a 480watt lm301b/h diodes will replace a 1k no problem BUT he uses multiple fixtures so he gets cross lighting too..... this man has been running 1k's for years and switched each one with a 480watt samsung diode light. (dont matter who makes it, long as its genuine)
Thats what im seeing in the real world. The lighting guys on here want to see more like 700 watts to replace a 1k but those are lighting guys.

 

[getogrow]

In the LED world there are "new" technologies all the time but efficiency is always the key.

For 1/3 the cost of new QBs, i bought the V1 boards. 8% less efficient, but at an efficiency of 2.5 wtf am i gaining getting to 2.6 or 2.7 with the newer boards and adding some far red?

The sweet spot is buying tech from a year or 2 back. Just like HPS wtf its so cheap anyone who can handle the heat and has vertical space its awfully cheap! Do you need the latest HPS? Same is true in LED. They did not just invent a completely new spectrum lol!

i agree.... the lm301b are older tech now so they should be getting cheaper in a year or so ..... the new lm301h is out and nobody is going to want the B series anymore so im guessing we can get a good deal on them in the next year ish......

 

[getogrow]

The part im having the most trouble understanding is the dimming part. That fucks with the watts which fucks my whole setup up. Im a firm believer in overkill but i dont want to burn the lights out too quick. What do i run them at to keep the lifespan long ? Can you run them full blast for long periods of time without killing your million dollar light ? thanks.