BroScience Bullshit - Post here
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kingkush4200
Active Member
"The plants need darkness. 24/0 is a bad light cycle and will hurt growth/yield.".
Well, considering I veg in 24/0 and have for eight years where on average I get about a 1/2 lb per plant, I'd have to say we've got another broscience statement.
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Hey man 24hr light def works but you might want to do a little research into the difference between light and dark respiration.
This is actually why many large facilities will run lights half and half in veg.
Cheers
Well, considering I veg in 24/0 and have for eight years where on average I get about a 1/2 lb per plant, I'd have to say we've got another broscience statement.
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Hey man 24hr light def works but you might want to do a little research into the difference between light and dark respiration.
This is actually why many large facilities will run lights half and half in veg.
Cheers
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
That could be right... my books tell my that plants are able to uptake atmospheric N in the form of NH3 (ammonia) through their stomata (IF the concentration is HIGH - if LOW, they rather loose NH3 through the stomata)
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DarkWeb
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with researching and testing things, but if I have been growing for eight years, stabilizing on an average 1/2 pound per plant with four plants per 4x4' flower tent, with varying degrees of temperature and humidity, what benefit would researching the difference of 18/6 to 24/0 do me? A couple of grams per my two pound tent? Do you really think that when I get up to 90%+ humidity that I'm concerned about plant respiration or transpiration?
Sometimes known stability is enough to know that setting up a test environment isn't even worth it.
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
whew... considering plants have ion-pumps sitting in the plasmalemma I wonder if this wouldn't disrupt a plants ability to actually use them...
interesting nonetheless... perhaps the current has the power to dissolve some of the soilbound nutrients and make them "plant-ready"... ?
tbh I watered my plants for about 2 years with just rainwater, and that said, I lived in the city with historically the most rainfall throughout the year. Some of the rainwater was taken from the roof, and used on the indoor plants, and for the outdoor plants it was collected right on the spot with plastic planes... or taken from small natural ponds.
At the time I fed mineralically, even outdoors, and always measured the EC - which was always 0.01 (the min display)... if there was anything in it, then not ionic.... but perhaps the N source came differently to either plants or the roots....?
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
some evidence that 24h veging is better than 18/6:
The future of agriculture is computerized
Researchers at the MIT Media Lab Open Agriculture Initiative have used computer algorithms to determine the optimal growing conditions to improve basil plants’ taste by maximizing the concentration of flavorful molecules known as volatile compounds.
Machine learning to optimise growth and taste of plants - Future Farming
The Massachusetts Institute of Technology says that machine learning reveals optimal growing conditions for plants, in order to maximise taste and other features.
www.futurefarming.com
(+ that AI can grow better than scientists, just by alternating variables + examinating the results, so it basically disregards all "theory" and acts rather empirically)
tough shit
Gentlemencorpse
Well-Known Member
So there is some N in rain water because nitrates that aren't taken up by plants are actually broken down by denitrifying bacteria and bond with water droplets that then evaporate back into the atmosphere. Also whatever potting medium you used likely had nitrates and/or the requisite bacterium to fix nitrogen themselves
kingkush4200
Active Member
well obviously no its not worth it if you only run a 4x4 .... do what makes you happy bro, personally I like my environment to be on point. I was just telling you to educate yourself on light and dark respiration before claiming bro science when its basic botany. I use 24hr veg myself sometimes no sweat but I wouldn't tell people it isn't likely better to run 18/6. It could potentially be alot more than a few grams if you decreased veg time by 2 weeks. That could be alot even in a 4x4!
Cheers man happy grows
From the lightning thing, I have learned something.
I was in communication with someone else here recently where we were discussing the compatibility of elements and nutrients. I know that Ca is incompatible with any sulfates or phosphates. The other grower stated that it might be possible that nitrates might be problematic in the same sense that Ca is.
I questioned what I knew. Now I know for sure. I was correct in my original knowledge. I can assure that nitrates don't interfere with the others mentioned above at all. In fact, after doing some readings, I went and looked on some of my past and previous nutrient labels, and indeed, in "grow" bottles (or my powdered micronutrient blend), the N is often in Nitrate form, which means that it isn't N in nitrate form that causes precipitation at all.
Many good things coming out of this thread.
I was in communication with someone else here recently where we were discussing the compatibility of elements and nutrients. I know that Ca is incompatible with any sulfates or phosphates. The other grower stated that it might be possible that nitrates might be problematic in the same sense that Ca is.
I questioned what I knew. Now I know for sure. I was correct in my original knowledge. I can assure that nitrates don't interfere with the others mentioned above at all. In fact, after doing some readings, I went and looked on some of my past and previous nutrient labels, and indeed, in "grow" bottles (or my powdered micronutrient blend), the N is often in Nitrate form, which means that it isn't N in nitrate form that causes precipitation at all.
Many good things coming out of this thread.
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Can't remember for sure, but didn't I ask for references to scientific papers that back that up? Maybe that was somewhere else.well obviously no its not worth it if you only run a 4x4 .... do what makes you happy bro, personally I like my environment to be on point. I was just telling you to educate yourself on light and dark respiration before claiming bro science when its basic botany. I use 24hr veg myself sometimes no sweat but I wouldn't tell people it isn't likely better to run 18/6. It could potentially be alot more than a few grams if you decreased veg time by 2 weeks. That could be alot even in a 4x4!
Cheers man happy grows
Either way. Citings please. References to papers that I can review.
I'm not in the business of running 2kW of lights plus my time to do a four month test because someone without any background says I should "educate yourself on light and dark respiration".
If you have something tangible I can quantify into justification for the cost, I am definitely all ears.
kingkush4200
Active Member
Very interesting man, good read.some evidence that 24h veging is better than 18/6:
The future of agriculture is computerized
Researchers at the MIT Media Lab Open Agriculture Initiative have used computer algorithms to determine the optimal growing conditions to improve basil plants’ taste by maximizing the concentration of flavorful molecules known as volatile compounds.news.mit.edu
Machine learning to optimise growth and taste of plants - Future Farming
The Massachusetts Institute of Technology says that machine learning reveals optimal growing conditions for plants, in order to maximise taste and other features.
(+ that AI can grow better than scientists, just by alternating variables + examinating the results, so it basically disregards all "theory" and acts rather empirically)
tough shit
So like I said earlier this is why large scale we run lights half and half in veg.
This allows dark respiration to take place even though the room is technically receiving 24hrs of light.
In the MIT studies of 24hr lighting I wonder if the AI ramps the light intensity down to allow dark respiration to occur, that would be very interesting.
THT
Well-Known Member
My experience may not count for you and that's fine, not trying to argue the point, I've seen male parts on reg seeds too, the probability of male parts on fem seeds is substantially higher in my experience, if you think reversing doesnt lead to that higher probability that's fine, you also offered no evidence to suggest I'm wrong. some reversing methods may be better than others, some strains already have the propensity for herm traits, and seeds made from those genetics will have those genetics. there's no bro science here.
kingkush4200
Active Member
Hey man Naw, don't think we've talked about this before.
Check this out, the info on the efficiency of older and younger leaves is also interesting.
Also how exactly would you know what my background is?
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
Just peaked through some books and it seems that the whole topic of "dark breath" or "respiration" is a comlicated matter at hand, as there are several different methods or mechanisms at large which plants can use to deal with some of the buildups which they usually deal with, when they "sleep".
It's also strongly influenced by temperature, light-levels, plants genotypes (Cannabis needs to breath A LOT), tissue age, and ambient O2 & CO2 levels.
Some "breath" seems to be mitochondrial, another not... while some of the "dark breath" is actually supressed by light (but still can run low - which is the reason why a plant under 24h light doesn't die or stunt in growth...)
It's related to the "KOK effect"
Kassiopeija
Well-Known Member
I wonder what the AI would do if given full control over the light's spectrum? :O
Gentlemencorpse
Well-Known Member
Harvest76
Well-Known Member
It's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
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