Soil question

G

Gimiik

Active Member
Hi all,

I'm looking to start another run and want to switch things up this time around! I'm trying to get away from using bottle nutrients and want my soil to do all the work. I just need a little help getting there :)

First off, I do not want to experiment with trying to create my own soil mix I don't know the nuances enough and would definitely make an unbalanced mix. I was reading about Subcool's soil recipe and I think I'm going to give it a shot. I'm only running a 2x4 space this time so IDK if I need to make 50gallons of the stuff... I found a recipe for smaller batches.
  • 1 ten gallon bag of high quality Organic Potting Soil Such as “Roots Organic Soil”
  • 3 to 6 pounds of Organic Earthworm Castings (1 lb. of casting = about 1 gal.)
  • 10 ounces of Blood Meal ( 10 oz. of blood meal = about 1 & 1/2 cups)
  • 10 ounces of Bloom Bat Guano ( 10 oz. of guano = about 1 cup)
  • 10 ounces Fish Bone Meal ( 10 oz. of bone meal = about 1 cup)
  • 6 ounces Rock Phosphate
  • 1&1/2 tablespoons Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate)
  • 2 tablespoons or 1 oz. (liquid measure)of Dolomite Lime
  • 1 tablespoons or 1/2 oz. (liquid measure) of Azomite (trace elements)
  • 1 teaspoon of powdered Humic Acid
My question... What should I use as the base soil? Can I use FFOF or is that too hot? Should I just go with straight up peat moss? Do I need to mix in compost to this or are the listed ingredients good enough?

I should also say I want to reuse this soil for multiple runs.... I don't want to use perlite because it breaks down. With the given ingredients will I have good enough aeration or do I need to add rice hulls/lava rocks?

I also don't really want to brew compost teas. I wanted to inoculate the soil using URB. As far as feedings, can I get away with just using water/liquid seaweed/alfalfa + kelp meal and molasses with this mix?

Thanks in advance!!
 
A

al1993545

Active Member
I used to run a similar recipe with my pro mix bx. And always had excellent result. Just mix a small batch wet it, get some run off. Then check the ph.
 
G

Gimiik

Active Member
So I looked into the various Promix soils and they seem great but I want to avoid perlite as it breaks down with use. I want the ability to reuse my soil over and over.

I think what I'm going to do is this.

Base Soil:
Peat Moss (33%) Peat Moss
Worm Castings (33%) <--- Compost
Rice Hulls/Lava Rock (33%) <--- Aeration

Then add in the following:
  • 10 ounces of Blood Meal ( 10 oz. of blood meal = about 1 & 1/2 cups)
  • 10 ounces of Bloom Bat Guano ( 10 oz. of guano = about 1 cup)
  • 10 ounces Fish Bone Meal ( 10 oz. of bone meal = about 1 cup)
  • 6 ounces Rock Phosphate
  • 1&1/2 tablespoons Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate)
  • 2 tablespoons or 1 oz. (liquid measure)of Dolomite Lime
  • 1 tablespoons or 1/2 oz. (liquid measure) of Azomite (trace elements)
  • 1 teaspoon of powdered Humic Acid
 
G

Gimiik

Active Member
Ugh the more and more I read about the subject the less sure I want to do lol.

New Recipe:

Base Soil:
Peat Moss (33%)
Worm Castings (33%)
Rice Hulls (33%)

Soil Ammendments:
Fish Meal (9-4-0) 1/2 cup per cubic foot
Crab Shell Meal (4-3-0) 1/2 cup per cubic foot
Kelp Meal (0-0-1 or 1-0-2) 1/2 cup per cubic foot
Neem Seed Meal (6-1-2) 1/2 cup per cubic foot
Oyster Shell Flour
Gypsum
Glacial Rock Dust

Re-amending the soil:
In veg every three to four week
Worm castings
Neem cake or neem seed meal
Kelp meal

At the beginning of flower
Worm castings
All purpose seabird guano
Kelp
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Gimiik said:
Hi all,

I'm looking to start another run and want to switch things up this time around! I'm trying to get away from using bottle nutrients and want my soil to do all the work. I just need a little help getting there :)

First off, I do not want to experiment with trying to create my own soil mix I don't know the nuances enough and would definitely make an unbalanced mix. I was reading about Subcool's soil recipe and I think I'm going to give it a shot. I'm only running a 2x4 space this time so IDK if I need to make 50gallons of the stuff... I found a recipe for smaller batches.
  • 1 ten gallon bag of high quality Organic Potting Soil Such as “Roots Organic Soil”
  • 3 to 6 pounds of Organic Earthworm Castings (1 lb. of casting = about 1 gal.)
  • 10 ounces of Blood Meal ( 10 oz. of blood meal = about 1 & 1/2 cups)
  • 10 ounces of Bloom Bat Guano ( 10 oz. of guano = about 1 cup)
  • 10 ounces Fish Bone Meal ( 10 oz. of bone meal = about 1 cup)
  • 6 ounces Rock Phosphate
  • 1&1/2 tablespoons Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate)
  • 2 tablespoons or 1 oz. (liquid measure)of Dolomite Lime
  • 1 tablespoons or 1/2 oz. (liquid measure) of Azomite (trace elements)
  • 1 teaspoon of powdered Humic Acid
My question... What should I use as the base soil? Can I use FFOF or is that too hot? Should I just go with straight up peat moss? Do I need to mix in compost to this or are the listed ingredients good enough?

I should also say I want to reuse this soil for multiple runs.... I don't want to use perlite because it breaks down. With the given ingredients will I have good enough aeration or do I need to add rice hulls/lava rocks?

I also don't really want to brew compost teas. I wanted to inoculate the soil using URB. As far as feedings, can I get away with just using water/liquid seaweed/alfalfa + kelp meal and molasses with this mix?

Thanks in advance!!
Click to expand...
My advice is to use plain FFOF this round, and next round amendment it. You could throw some pumice in it now, but I just used it plain the first few rounds. I also only used organic nutes. Then I added a bunch of stuff to turn it into a real no-till soil.

And for aeration, don't use pure rice hulls since they'll break down over time. I use them, but I also use pumice and lava rock.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
Look .... keep shit simple .

FFOF base
Perlite
EWC ( 10-15% of container volume )
Kelp meal or kelp in water
Myco

Supplement ( optional) ; Humic acid.

No need to mix up tons shit that STILL needs to cook to make elements breakdown before plant can use it. My mix will run a plant ALL BY ITSELF on ph water only - No bottles , No bags of extra shit.

I made certain mixes and found most times ratios needed tweaking ... no more . I just run this and top dress with it ( to feed plants ) when needed.

No more No less.

I have another NON COOK mix i use called Moonshine man mix ( not sure who first created it ) but uses simple mix and use bagged items.
Happy Frog dry fert ( fruit and flower ) is the dry nute in it.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
My advice is to use plain FFOF this round, and next round amendment it. You could throw some pumice in it now, but I just used it plain the first few rounds. I also only used organic nutes. Then I added a bunch of stuff to turn it into a real no-till soil.

And for aeration, don't use pure rice hulls since they'll break down over time. I use them, but I also use pumice and lava rock.
Click to expand...
LO L... you beat me posting that.
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Don’t make it more complex than it is. Keep it simple. You can use any decent organic bagged soil mix such as roots organic, FFOF, or whatever as is; especially for veg phase. Get a tote bin or whatever vessel you use to mix up the soil. Add your base soil along with some worm castings and a fertilizer input; possibly aeration if needed...Ok and the oyster shell flour...that’s it. Build up your veg pots; save whatever mix is left in the bin for top dressing or up-potting as needed.
In the meantime prepare your bloom mix by adding more base soil and worm compost. Add in the amendments of your choice in small quantities. Let it set for at least a month and then use this mix to build your final size bloom pots.
You do not need to have a different mix for each phase of growth. I’m just saying to do it this way for the first run so you have fresh mix on hand for subsequent stages of growth. Use granular mycorrhizae in the hole directly at each transplant; helps with absorption. The idea is to put everything they will need into the mix before there are plants so then you just water them the whole grow.
After each harvest throw the root balls back into the tote and then recycle by adding in compost and all your amendments again. Be sure to let the mix set for 30 days after amending to give time for everything to break down & cook in. The most important amendment is vermicompost; feel free to add more at any time. Teas can easily be avoided if you just keep adding more compost directly but giving a tea every so often really ups the microbial activity which helps regulate ph and pushes fast growth.
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Richard Drysift said:
Don’t make it more complex than it is. Keep it simple. You can use any decent organic bagged soil mix such as roots organic, FFOF, or whatever as is; especially for veg phase. Get a tote bin or whatever vessel you use to mix up the soil. Add your base soil along with some worm castings and a fertilizer input; possibly aeration if needed...Ok and the oyster shell flour...that’s it. Build up your veg pots; save whatever mix is left in the bin for top dressing or up-potting as needed.
In the meantime prepare your bloom mix by adding more base soil and worm compost. Add in the amendments of your choice in small quantities. Let it set for at least a month and then use this mix to build your final size bloom pots.
You do not need to have a different mix for each phase of growth. I’m just saying to do it this way for the first run so you have fresh mix on hand for subsequent stages of growth. Use granular mycorrhizae in the hole directly at each transplant; helps with absorption. The idea is to put everything they will need into the mix before there are plants so then you just water them the whole grow.
After each harvest throw the root balls back into the tote and then recycle by adding in compost and all your amendments again. Be sure to let the mix set for 30 days after amending to give time for everything to break down & cook in. The most important amendment is vermicompost; feel free to add more at any time. Teas can easily be avoided if you just keep adding more compost directly but giving a tea every so often really ups the microbial activity which helps regulate ph and pushes fast growth.
Click to expand...
I just started making little batches of mixes. The Flower Blend from BAS gave me the idea, and when I ran out of it I decided to make my own. I just use EWC, pumice, biochar, and whatever dry amendments I decide to add. It's much more readily available since it's already been getting broken down.

I was impressed how much of a difference it made. I use it as a top dressing though.
 
G

Gimiik

Active Member
Richard Drysift said:
Don’t make it more complex than it is. Keep it simple. You can use any decent organic bagged soil mix such as roots organic, FFOF, or whatever as is; especially for veg phase. Get a tote bin or whatever vessel you use to mix up the soil. Add your base soil along with some worm castings and a fertilizer input; possibly aeration if needed...Ok and the oyster shell flour...that’s it. Build up your veg pots; save whatever mix is left in the bin for top dressing or up-potting as needed.
In the meantime prepare your bloom mix by adding more base soil and worm compost. Add in the amendments of your choice in small quantities. Let it set for at least a month and then use this mix to build your final size bloom pots.
You do not need to have a different mix for each phase of growth. I’m just saying to do it this way for the first run so you have fresh mix on hand for subsequent stages of growth. Use granular mycorrhizae in the hole directly at each transplant; helps with absorption. The idea is to put everything they will need into the mix before there are plants so then you just water them the whole grow.
After each harvest throw the root balls back into the tote and then recycle by adding in compost and all your amendments again. Be sure to let the mix set for 30 days after amending to give time for everything to break down & cook in. The most important amendment is vermicompost; feel free to add more at any time. Teas can easily be avoided if you just keep adding more compost directly but giving a tea every so often really ups the microbial activity which helps regulate ph and pushes fast growth.
Click to expand...
Richard, that was exactly the information I needed!! I was starting to get a grasp on each individual piece but was still unsure how to put them all together. Thank you, for going into detail about how to mix the soil and build the pots, saving left over for top dressing/up-potting, getting your flower mix started while the plant is vegging, etc. I'm starting to understand the big picture and the lifecycle of the soil over multiple uses.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
Lockedin said:
Kelp - what if I had easy access to kelp - fresh, rotted, or dried? Could that be processed at home for fert.?
Click to expand...
Honestly , I don’t know and would rather use a product ready to go and not possibly introducing pathogenic issues.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
I just started making little batches of mixes. The Flower Blend from BAS gave me the idea, and when I ran out of it I decided to make my own. I just use EWC, pumice, biochar, and whatever dry amendments I decide to add. It's much more readily available since it's already been getting broken down.

I was impressed how much of a difference it made. I use it as a top dressing though.
Click to expand...
Was on the fence with biochar ... thoughts?
 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Budzbuddha said:
Was on the fence with biochar ... thoughts?
Click to expand...
It's supposed to be good stuff. But you don't want to use a lot. I bought the pre-charged stuff from BAS.
buildasoil.com

Bio-Char – BuildASoil

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G

Gimiik

Active Member
Could someone answer a couple questions about composting my soil?

I plan to use a 22gal storage tote as composting bin. My question is given that where I live is currently 100+ degrees every day, Should I be sealing the lid to the tote to lock in the moisture? Or should I leave the lid off? Because it's the summer time we have a lot of little bugs flying around too that I wouldn't want living in the moist soil.

Also, does the order in which I add my ingredients matter? Or can I just mix my Peatmoss/EWC/Perlite + Dry Ammendments and simply throw the soil mix into the tote and call it a day?
1593720892257.png
 
G

Gimiik

Active Member
@Richard Drysift
Add your base soil along with some worm castings and a fertilizer input; possibly aeration if needed...Ok and the oyster shell flour...that’s it. Build up your veg pots; save whatever mix is left in the bin for top dressing or up-potting as needed.
Click to expand...
What type of fertilizer input do you mean? A nitrogen rich fertilizer? I have a 9-6-0 or a 6-1-2..... I also plan on using white clover as a ground cover / Nitrogen fixator.
 
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