modular overkill led striplight build

[cobshopgrow]

did some math.

took the upper 5 rows, least influenced by the tent door.
thats 40 measuring points.

So we get:
44.344 at 315W
44.344 divided by 40
3,51936
multiplied by the area (86x86cm inside)
3,51936 x 0,7396
=2,6029

gives us
2,60 µmol/w at 315W wall.
same calc for the 178W gave me 2,606, so about the same.

note,, i extra took my normal killawatt, which gives me the highest readings as the smart plugs tend to show slightly too low, only 290W vs 315W
note 2, this lamps potentiometer isnt hitting 100k, as it doenst matter for me, i havent checked how much K.


Edit... when i doubble i should take the middle...
so i too kthe first 4 rows and took them by 2 as the other side should be quite identicla.

35.131 divided by 32
1.097,84
divided by 315W
3,485
x by the area 0,7396m2

2,5776

so 2,58 µmol/w at 315W wall.

 

[cobshopgrow]

played with the coco for cannabis calc.


some nice read.

How Much Light (PPF) Do You Need for Indoor Cannabis? - Coco For Cannabis

The science of photosynthesis, PAR and PPF for indoor cannabis. Our Grow Space Calculator shows the optimal light and harvest estimates for any grow space.

www.cocoforcannabis.com

Dimensions	Sq.Feet	Calculated PPF	Usable PPF:	Low Harvest 0.55g/µmol	Benchmark 0.75g/µmol
2' X 4'	8	709µmol	520µmol	286g	390g
3' X 3'	9	798µmol	585µmol	322g	439g
4' X 4'	16	1419µmol	1040µmol	572g	780g
5' X 5'	25	2217µmol	1625µmol	894g	1219g

so 585 usable PPF isnt that much at all.

 

[DukeFluke]

am also experimenting with blue.
the 4000k 95cri buddies do veg quite nice.
they maybe help a bit also, but have no definitve result so far.

Is there a marked difference in the growth when you use the 4000k, and if so, why don't you keep some mixed in with the 3000k for fower? Do you not think the increase in health will translate into a better yied/grow?

I have 4000k 90cri Bxeb strips. I can remove some of the 3000k and replace with these to run 50/50, 9 of each.

Think this is a good idea?

Also, what are your thoughts on the emerson effect and the use of this spectrum combination to mitigate probems with photosynthesis?

 

[cobshopgrow]

i do use the 4000k all time, while its just 2 strings of the buddies, about 30W.
so its hard to say, how i use them they mix in to the spectrum mostly.
for health its basically no bad idea to cover the lower blue spectrum more i would say, so why not try some 4000k 90cri strips (btw the 5700k 90cri go the lowest).
Carotenoids play a role in compensating stress in high light situations, but theyre just one part of many.
The CMH is quite good in covering a wide blue spectrum incl. some uv, compared to leds

https://www.bridgelux.com/sites/default/files/resource_media/DS132%20Bridgelux%20EB%20Series%20Gen3%20Data%20Sheet%2020190617%20Rev%20A.pdf

tbh, i thought about it too to add some 4000k 80cri slims, as they go quite low in the blue region.
this will introduce maybe too much unwanted green, idk, its all pure speculation.

am not sure at all at this stage if the blue region is our problem, while its may worth a try, pls tell and share your results.

i mean the main "problem" is that a 315w led fixture can behave like 2 315w chm fixtures output wise,, too much photons in first.

 

[DukeFluke]

I will definitely share my progress.

Something to ponder for you though COB... I don't know whether you have grown using CMH bulbs, but there is also a stress that can come with those at first .... but... the difference is, the plants adapt to them, and I'm speculating about a couple of theories.

So... I've seen plants have a similar reaction when placed under a CMH bulb, but they recover, with no changes to the environment, and even growing closer to the bub. They become vigorous and heathy. It's very much like the hardening off process when you move a baby plant outdoors.

With my LEDs, this is not happening. They're not adapting.

This makes me believe it's not entirely just about light levels, temps, or nutrients.

Is there something in the spectrum of the CMH which is at first shocking to the plants, but then afterwards boosting it's health? Possibly UV might be a part of it? Maybe something in the CMH bulb stimulates the production of some element within the plant which isn't there when it first goes under the light, which then allows the plant to process the available light after some time?

I think if it were just Photons, the parts of the plant closest to the CMH would show similar symptoms to the LED plants with the same light levels. But they don't. Unless they physically burn, they can take it.

What do you think about that?

 

[Humple]

I will definitely share my progress.

Something to ponder for you though COB... I don't know whether you have grown using CMH bulbs, but there is also a stress that can come with those at first .... but... the difference is, the plants adapt to them, and I'm speculating about a couple of theories.

So... I've seen plants have a similar reaction when placed under a CMH bulb, but they recover, with no changes to the environment, and even growing closer to the bub. They become vigorous and heathy. It's very much like the hardening off process when you move a baby plant outdoors.

With my LEDs, this is not happening. They're not adapting.

This makes me believe it's not entirely just about light levels, temps, or nutrients.

Is there something in the spectrum of the CMH which is at first shocking to the plants, but then afterwards boosting it's health? Possibly UV might be a part of it? Maybe something in the CMH bulb stimulates the production of some element within the plant which isn't there when it first goes under the light, which then allows the plant to process the available light after some time?

What do you think about that?

It's a question of transpiration, not adaptation. CMH bulbs give off IR, which warms the leaves above ambient. Most of the LED lighting used for growing lacks IR, and therefore the leaves are cooler, despite the level of light. This is why we say to get your ambient temps up - so your leaf temp will be sufficient for adequate transpiration. Alternatively, peeps have had success aiding transpiration with added blue light, which is reported to stimulate the opening of the stomata, allowing transpiration.

I highly recommend at least trying to get your ambient temp up, running that way for a while, and then - if you don't see any improvement - pursue other theories.

 

[cobshopgrow]

i never had a CMH, but i am aware that a lot people like CMH light.
Nice to hear your observation about the hardening, as i have to say, feeling wise it behaves similar.
Reading your text i may should play around more with the UVA.

So far we should compare the CMH spectrum then to the leds.

the cmh emits heat 800+, have more far red, over 700, have a green spike and have a wider blue region, going down to uva.
did you ever compared 3100 to 4100K CMH?

 

[DukeFluke]

did you ever compared 3100 to 4100K CMH?

I didn't. I only used the 3000K Philips. It turned out to be a better veg light than the Halide.

 

[cobshopgrow]

ok, would be indicator that a overly high amount of blue isnt needed in your case ?

 

[DukeFluke]

It would seem so. Not for general health anyway that's for sure.

 

[cobshopgrow]

temps up light intensity down first would say.
as mentioned.

of course, as you have the 4k there its relative easy to try.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Is there a marked difference in the growth when you use the 4000k, and if so, why don't you keep some mixed in with the 3000k for fower? Do you not think the increase in health will translate into a better yied/grow?

I have 4000k 90cri Bxeb strips. I can remove some of the 3000k and replace with these to run 50/50, 9 of each.

Think this is a good idea?

Also, what are your thoughts on the emerson effect and the use of this spectrum combination to mitigate probems with photosynthesis?

I thiink its a great idea for vegg.

 

[grotbags]

i think maybe its light intensity is the biggest issue with leaf temp second and spectrum a close third but really they are linked.

i think using a 'flower' spectrum (3000k90cri) for veg with too hign an intensity with too low leaf temps = poor growth, really unhappy plants
using a 'flower' spectrum for veg with the right intensity but to low leaf temps = better but not great growth, unhappy plants.
using a 'flower' specctrum for veg with the right intensity with good leaf temps = probably acceptable growth, happy ish/not sad plants.

i think using a 'veg' spectrum (4000k80cri) for veg with too high an intensity with to low leaf temps = poor growth but slightly happier plants(normal ish DLI issues)
using a veg spectrum for veg with the right intensity but to low leaf temps = acceptable growth, happier again plants.
using a veg spectrum for veg with the right intensity and good leaf temps = good growth, happy plants.(but could be better)

i think maybe a red heavy spectrum for veg is overdriving the plants even at relatively low intensitys and without the perfect leaf temps coupled with the lack of blue to force stomata opening they cant transpire and growth stalls.

my 50/50 mix of 3000k80cri and 5000kcri80cri does ok for veg even with lower leaf temps, ok mind you not brilliant.
with good leaf temps its good, more than acceptable but not unreal amazing rain forest lush growth. there are still signs of not being 100% happy red stems ect.

i still think something is missing spectrum wise...

 

[Rocket Soul]

i think maybe its light intensity is the biggest issue with leaf temp second and spectrum a close third but really they are linked.

i think using a 'flower' spectrum (3000k90cri) for veg with too hign an intensity with too low leaf temps = poor growth, really unhappy plants
using a 'flower' spectrum for veg with the right intensity but to low leaf temps = better but not great growth, unhappy plants.
using a 'flower' specctrum for veg with the right intensity with good leaf temps = probably acceptable growth, happy ish/not sad plants.

i think using a 'veg' spectrum (4000k80cri) for veg with too high an intensity with to low leaf temps = poor growth but slightly happier plants(normal ish DLI issues)
using a veg spectrum for veg with the right intensity but to low leaf temps = acceptable growth, happier again plants.
using a veg spectrum for veg with the right intensity and good leaf temps = good growth, happy plants.(but could be better)

i think maybe a red heavy spectrum for veg is overdriving the plants even at relatively low intensitys and without the perfect leaf temps coupled with the lack of blue to force stomata opening they cant transpire and growth stalls.

my 50/50 mix of 3000k80cri and 5000kcri80cri does ok for veg even with lower leaf temps, ok mind you not brilliant.
with good leaf temps its good, more than acceptable but not unreal amazing rain forest lush growth. there are still signs of not being 100% happy red stems ect.

i still think something is missing spectrum wise...

Id put spectrum a little higher. More blue means more transpiration even at low light intensity.
Duke, you have complete advice above: less light but with some extra blue in it. Increase temps to about 27c or even a bit more. And if this dont work just back of the light intensity, until you see happy praying plants. Once you get it there you just play with hanging height a bit, trying to coax your plants into handling the light. As they grow more roots it will get better.

We vegg with 240 for about 2m2 so you dont need much.

Edit: and yes, your cmh will maybe be better for vegg at least until you get a hang of led growing. Our led flower was more impressive than led veg by far when we started out.

 

[DukeFluke]

Ok here's a basic question then based on that. We see a lot of good solid grows through veg AND flower with certain models of LED. When I was researching the China LED market, kingbrite/spiderfarmer/Meiju etc, I was coming across a lot of positive reviews and solid grow journals with plants growing right up close to and even through between the bars of the fixtures with no negative effects.

What are the key differences between these fixtures and the Blux?

Spectrum is one. They come with deep and far red. But some don't and still seem to perform.

They also often come with a diffuser in the form of a plastic covering over the diodes. Could that be making a big difference to how the diode performs for cultivation? Again, some don't so..

They're using the samsung chips. Is the spectral output different enough - maybe more in the green/blue - to promote plant health without the need for extra heat and attention?

i think maybe its light intensity is the biggest issue with leaf temp second and spectrum a close third but really they are linked.

i think using a 'flower' spectrum (3000k90cri) for veg with too high an intensity with too low leaf temps = poor growth, really unhappy plants
using a 'flower' spectrum for veg with the right intensity but to low leaf temps = better but not great growth, unhappy plants.
using a 'flower' specctrum for veg with the right intensity with good leaf temps = probably acceptable growth, happy ish/not sad plants.

i think using a 'veg' spectrum (4000k80cri) for veg with too high an intensity with to low leaf temps = poor growth but slightly happier plants(normal ish DLI issues)
using a veg spectrum for veg with the right intensity but to low leaf temps = acceptable growth, happier again plants.
using a veg spectrum for veg with the right intensity and good leaf temps = good growth, happy plants.(but could be better)

i think maybe a red heavy spectrum for veg is overdriving the plants even at relatively low intensitys and without the perfect leaf temps coupled with the lack of blue to force stomata opening they cant transpire and growth stalls.

my 50/50 mix of 3000k80cri and 5000kcri80cri does ok for veg even with lower leaf temps, ok mind you not brilliant.
with good leaf temps its good, more than acceptable but not unreal amazing rain forest lush growth. there are still signs of not being 100% happy red stems ect.

i still think something is missing spectrum wise...

I agree with all of that. There's something not right here.

I take on board what people have advised regarding temps and transpiration, but when you think about this, we're talking a lot about efficiency on these LED pages.

If we have to use more electricity to get the lights to function properly then that should be factored into the overall gpw and efficiency picture.

So, Ideally, we don't want to have to maintain room temps of 30c, if there's another way around it.

We don't want it to be difficult to replicate the type of growth we've had previously under supposedly less efficient lighting.

The best gauge of efficiency is how well it grows plants. When you refer to "rainforest lush growth" you're talking about speed of growth and health. Two of the main parameters in judging the efficiency/quality of a light.

There are still some clear gaps. That much is clear.

I still haven't seen any journals where people are using 3000k bxeb start to finish. If anyone has any links to some post them up, let's see how they're getting on.

 

[DukeFluke]

my 50/50 mix of 3000k80cri and 5000kcri80cri does ok for veg even with lower leaf temps, ok mind you not brilliant.

So are you finding the results get better in flower?

I mean overall are they still out performing the HID you moved from?

 

[Rocket Soul]

Ok here's a basic question then based on that. We see a lot of good solid grows through veg AND flower with certain models of LED. When I was researching the China LED market, kingbrite/spiderfarmer/Meiju etc, I was coming across a lot of positive reviews and solid grow journals with plants growing right up close to and even through between the bars of the fixtures with no negative effects.

What are the key differences between these fixtures and the Blux?

Spectrum is one. They come with deep and far red. But some don't and still seem to perform.

They also often come with a diffuser in the form of a plastic covering over the diodes. Could that be making a big difference to how the diode performs for cultivation? Again, some don't so..

They're using the samsung chips. Is the spectral output different enough - maybe more in the green/blue - to promote plant health without the need for extra heat and attention?



I agree with all of that. There's something not right here.

I take on board what people have advised regarding temps and transpiration, but when you think about this, we're talking a lot about efficiency on these LED pages.

If we have to use more electricity to get the lights to function properly then that should be factored into the overall gpw and efficiency picture.

So, Ideally, we don't want to have to maintain room temps of 30c, if there's another way around it.

We don't want it to be difficult to replicate the type of growth we've had previously under supposedly less efficient lighting.

The best gauge of efficiency is how well it grows plants. When you refer to "rainforest lush growth" you're talking about speed of growth and health. Two of the main parameters in judging the efficiency/quality of a light.

There are still some clear gaps. That much is clear.

I still haven't seen any journals where people are using 3000k bxeb start to finish. If anyone has any links to some post them up, let's see how they're getting on.

The trick is to get them started. They will only want a limited amount of light in the start or they will start sag and missbehave. This amount of light is more the more blue you have in your spectrum and the higher your temps, up to a point. Also, adding in a bit of low nm blues and violets or even uv seems to help with low transpiration problems.
But by all means bring out your cmh for vegg, its what we do generally and also one of my first advice when i realized you where in uk. If you use a batwing reflector the throw is almost a 2x4 for slot-in replacement.

 

[DukeFluke]

I'd like to play with supplemental lighting and see if there are spectrum combinations of led that can allow greens to grow well and maximize every aspect of a flowering cannabis plant as well. Unfortunately money is tight atm but I wanna play with cyan and far red led as well possibly some t5s and like I said before, cmh. I know I can grow better plants with this setup but I really wanna learn how the plants are reacting to every part in the spectrum. The fact that my aloe burns at the tips and stays small under multiple spectrums of 75 watt led (tried 3500k 80 cri, 3000k 90 cri and currently the 5000k 70 cri) but grows bigger and doesn't burn at the tips under my 400w mh tells me something is missing or in too much abundance. MH seems to be covering something for more varieties of plants than led can currently and I'd like to find out why.

I took this from a thread with some decent info in it. I won't clog up this one any further. I'll start another thread where we can gather together examples of these issues and how/if people solved them

 

[DukeFluke]

The trick is to get them started. They will only want a limited amount of light in the start or they will start sag and missbehave. This amount of light is more the more blue you have in your spectrum and the higher your temps, up to a point. Also, adding in a bit of low nm blues and violets or even uv seems to help with low transpiration problems.
But by all means bring out your cmh for vegg, its what we do generally and also one of my first advice when i realized you where in uk. If you use a batwing reflector the throw is almost a 2x4 for slot-in replacement.

Hmm, but then I'm losing the form factor of the LED fixtures, which is one of their main strengths.

Ideally I want to get my lights to perform better in veg. I'm thinking it might be better to use a different colour temp with Reds which are switched on in flower.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Hmm, but then I'm losing the form factor of the LED fixtures, which is one of their main strengths.

Ideally I want to get my lights to perform better in veg. I'm thinking it might be better to use a different colour temp with Reds which are switched on in flower.

Personally, id use a flower spectrums white and add wide blues/uv on second channel for vegg/finishing. Its early yet though, how long have you been vegging? To already wanna change it up? Its always a matter of adapting yourself to the lights.