JustBlazin
Well-Known Member
if your talking to me I don't have a flora flex, I just meant I got a regular old table beside my tent me lol and was gonna put my res(tote) for a gravity feed
Opinions on Blumats
- Thread starter JustBlazin
- Start date
Sorry was someone else on first page and thought it was you. I was curious how these would work for a while too. I've seen some no til guys on Instagram using blumats in really huge pots, said that it helped to always keep it moist.
I was afraid of flooding is the reason I haven't tried these. I just realized that once I get tables set up for drainage that even if they did flood it wouldn't matter so I might consider these over floraflex but Im not sure. My plants drink about 30-40 gallons a day, I don't know if they would even work that well for me unless I made zones somehow. That and I've heard they don't work well with perilite in your mix, not sure if this is true or not, any idea?
SCJedi
Well-Known Member
The bulkheads on my 27-gallon tote are about 18" off the ground. 27g puts enough pressure on the blumats to work fine.
Outside of trying Blusoak tape for outdoors (and failing), I have the exact same use cases as @xtsho. Synthetic in 2g pots of 100% coco and plain water in 3g pots of organic soil with hand-watered teas. The Blumats rock it hard in both cases.
Edit to say that if you really want to prevent a runaway don't set the Blumats up and walk away. Hang out and check on them for a few hours because if things are not really bad after a few hours it is likely they won't run away. No promises but its best practices in my book.
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xtsho
Well-Known Member
I keep an eye on my blumats for the first day. If you do that you'll be able to adjust them properly and not experience any runaways.
For me after a lot of reading it was the general consensus to keep an eye on them for a couple of weeks. Not just for runaway but to get the right amount of water for the size of pot. The time I had runaway was setting up a new loop for my veg room. I didn't keep an eye on it enough. Thats not to say you cant get it running well in a couple of days just calling out best practice.
I used a airstone hooked up to my light timer in the flower room. I add nutes to the res. The only problem with that is if you are running multiple strains. I had a very nut sensitive strain that showed a bit of leaf tip burn while other were very happy. Small things to keep n mind.
A few other things I learned.
The 3mm drip line can get pinched in the carrot sometimes. Make sure once you get your new carrots to loosen the adjustment screw and pull the tubbing out ( not all the way) to look for kinks. Simply pinch the tubing with your fingers and it should pop back into shape.
They also sell a superflex main trunk line. Its way way better than the standard trunk line which is stiff and has to be heated to make it flexible. I bought the superflex the first time and love it.
After you set up your loop there may come a time you want to remove a carrot/plant. Simply remove the 3mm tubing from the carrot and tie a knot in it. Keep the unused carrot soaking in a bucket of water and it will be ready to go if you add a plant back to the loop.
I used a airstone hooked up to my light timer in the flower room. I add nutes to the res. The only problem with that is if you are running multiple strains. I had a very nut sensitive strain that showed a bit of leaf tip burn while other were very happy. Small things to keep n mind.
A few other things I learned.
The 3mm drip line can get pinched in the carrot sometimes. Make sure once you get your new carrots to loosen the adjustment screw and pull the tubbing out ( not all the way) to look for kinks. Simply pinch the tubing with your fingers and it should pop back into shape.
They also sell a superflex main trunk line. Its way way better than the standard trunk line which is stiff and has to be heated to make it flexible. I bought the superflex the first time and love it.
After you set up your loop there may come a time you want to remove a carrot/plant. Simply remove the 3mm tubing from the carrot and tie a knot in it. Keep the unused carrot soaking in a bucket of water and it will be ready to go if you add a plant back to the loop.
Flowki
Well-Known Member
Used these for around 1 year now but still not at the point where they are set and forget.
First issue is runaway res.
I personally use multiple smaller reservoirs (In fact I use 1 res per pot). The small reses are basically 5L buckets custom fit per 1 blumat. If one runs away, as it has done 2 times, then you are only dealing with 5L of flooding, my water catch system (gutter system basically) can catch that. If you use one huge res with 100L or so you need to be able to catch that amount of run off and it is almost CERTAIN to happen at some point. Get a system in place to deal with it or use smaller reservoirs if you logistically can not. The smaller resses come with some issues, like the pressure rate isn't as high for obvious reasons. To counter this you will simply end up having the blumat dial open one extra notch (example) during the dial in period.
The downside is that they need filled up every day or every other day depending. This is an easy task with a watering wand and bilge pump connection from the main ''slave res'', the watering wand also plays well with any manual feeding you may have to do, so long as you time how long it takes to fill 2/3/4L or how ever much you need. All in all it creates extra work over a 100L+ res but you have a lot less risk of flooding as an up side. Other upsides is if you do have a run away, you only lose 5L. You will be thankfull to not have to clean up 100L and then also have to replace that amount and reset every single blumat from scratch. Thirdly, having to fill up the small reservoirs every day/other means you are always checking on them. If you use a 100L res and start to get lazy since it can last a week or so, you may have a run away when you've decide not to check for a few days. The plants will be dead if that happens. They get use to continuous amount of water and even 1.5 days with none will have a huge negative effect. You can see with blumats that roots will grow in a huge mound out of the coco, even as high as 4 inches. If those roots dry out at all (takes only hours), they never recover, your yield will take a hit. This has happened twice on separate occasions and only two pots suffered, one catastrophically (imagine that was a full linked system).
Here are some tips on avoiding run away res. Make sure your pots are on even flat ground, if this is not achievable then get a small spirit level that can give you the slope angle on the pot. You want to have the blumat on the low side of the sloped pot (even a slight slope). The drip hose is mostly good to be about 3 inches long and have it pointing toward the high side of the pot. Due to the gravity/drip pipe length this will better ensure that water is making it's way toward the carrot so that it gets wet and actually shuts off. If you have the blumet on a high spot and/or the hose is too long facing low spot the water dripping will not spread to the carrot enough and you will very likely see a run away res.
Second thing is to make absolutely sure you wash blumats in clean water and THEN put them under another set of clean water before you begin setting them up under water. You don't want any tiny bits of old soil/coco finding it's way into the valve system.
Next issue is keeping things clean.
Make absolutely sure you clean all lines and res to a clinical standard between every cycle. If you fail to do this sludge will begin to build (particularly in the res and main line). It won't be all that visible but it will make it's way down the small blumat pipes over time. What this leads to is a lower flow rate, you then have to open the blumats more to compensate, the pipes can clear under the added pressure (so I theorise) and then you end up with a res dump. If that doesn't happen, at the very least inconsistent drip rates arise blumat to blumat where some are bottle necked and won't get enough water>yield.
Drip clean is a useful product that definitely works but never use it on the fly. Only ever use it after a good clinical level clean out or you will run a real risk of blocking the tiny blumat lines as drip clean really does pick up all the sludge (first hand). You can use it at 1/4 rate if you are only using plain water, this will be more as a ''just in-case''. If fully synthetic and using what you know is a clean nutrient (like jacks raw salts) then you will be able to go with 1/2 strength drip clean again as a ''just in-case''. I use full strength as I have my own reasons to do so, such as my bilge pump leading from my main res that I use to fill the small reservoirs. The pump can gather some build up in the pipes so I use for this reason. Also keep your res/reses sealed as tight as possible to keep contaminants from falling in. Reses/pipes should also be completely light sealed for algea build up, ignore that at your own demise. I have a separate drill pump for clearing any water that may find it's way into the catch gutter system. The pipes on that drill pump are half see through, they are completely green on the inside. Algea evidently has a high tolerance level.
Neutrient strength has been the biggest challenge. When you get it wrong it is difficult to correct. I won't even pretend I have it figured properly yet although I feel about 80% there. To get a real understanding of it requires you to know the minimum ppm values of plants, and then you need a little bit trial and error to translate that into a blumat system that doesn't have run off.
The flow rate of your system matters, as will your temps and light distance. It isn't an easy thing to dial in properly since your pressure rates from res will effect flow rate (as in my arrow positions won't be the same as yours) along with different neutriant types/ratios etc.
This is something I am still trying to figure out to become consistant. In truth it's hit and miss at the minute. When they work and get dialled in you end up with 4inch high root mounds and crystals/density up and down the plant like you've never seen before. If you are having problems for what ever reason you will wonder why you bother, since the results are at best on par with manual feeding+the hassle/negative feelings of knowing you didn't get it spot on this time.
My advice for anybody trying this is to only do it with 1/4 of your pots for a few runs. You will run into trouble that much I am almost certain of., but at-least you won't be risking it all. I still don't run it fully, I do it on half and will not go all in until I get 2 in a row of no issues. Keep this in mind as it's no understatement, if you have a runaway linked res just after a top up you could lose them all if you are not doing daily checks. If you end up with neut issues they are very difficult to figure out and fix.. as they could be a combination of things due to no run off.
On a side note, anybody who knows what ratios and elemental ppm values they are running please share.
Mine are: Elemental ppm
N - 150 (reduced by half after week 4 or so) started seing slight N tox with no run off otherwise.
P - 38 in V 60 in F
K - 160 > 189
C - 95 > cut in half same time as N
M - 60
S - 65
First issue is runaway res.
I personally use multiple smaller reservoirs (In fact I use 1 res per pot). The small reses are basically 5L buckets custom fit per 1 blumat. If one runs away, as it has done 2 times, then you are only dealing with 5L of flooding, my water catch system (gutter system basically) can catch that. If you use one huge res with 100L or so you need to be able to catch that amount of run off and it is almost CERTAIN to happen at some point. Get a system in place to deal with it or use smaller reservoirs if you logistically can not. The smaller resses come with some issues, like the pressure rate isn't as high for obvious reasons. To counter this you will simply end up having the blumat dial open one extra notch (example) during the dial in period.
The downside is that they need filled up every day or every other day depending. This is an easy task with a watering wand and bilge pump connection from the main ''slave res'', the watering wand also plays well with any manual feeding you may have to do, so long as you time how long it takes to fill 2/3/4L or how ever much you need. All in all it creates extra work over a 100L+ res but you have a lot less risk of flooding as an up side. Other upsides is if you do have a run away, you only lose 5L. You will be thankfull to not have to clean up 100L and then also have to replace that amount and reset every single blumat from scratch. Thirdly, having to fill up the small reservoirs every day/other means you are always checking on them. If you use a 100L res and start to get lazy since it can last a week or so, you may have a run away when you've decide not to check for a few days. The plants will be dead if that happens. They get use to continuous amount of water and even 1.5 days with none will have a huge negative effect. You can see with blumats that roots will grow in a huge mound out of the coco, even as high as 4 inches. If those roots dry out at all (takes only hours), they never recover, your yield will take a hit. This has happened twice on separate occasions and only two pots suffered, one catastrophically (imagine that was a full linked system).
Here are some tips on avoiding run away res. Make sure your pots are on even flat ground, if this is not achievable then get a small spirit level that can give you the slope angle on the pot. You want to have the blumat on the low side of the sloped pot (even a slight slope). The drip hose is mostly good to be about 3 inches long and have it pointing toward the high side of the pot. Due to the gravity/drip pipe length this will better ensure that water is making it's way toward the carrot so that it gets wet and actually shuts off. If you have the blumet on a high spot and/or the hose is too long facing low spot the water dripping will not spread to the carrot enough and you will very likely see a run away res.
Second thing is to make absolutely sure you wash blumats in clean water and THEN put them under another set of clean water before you begin setting them up under water. You don't want any tiny bits of old soil/coco finding it's way into the valve system.
Next issue is keeping things clean.
Make absolutely sure you clean all lines and res to a clinical standard between every cycle. If you fail to do this sludge will begin to build (particularly in the res and main line). It won't be all that visible but it will make it's way down the small blumat pipes over time. What this leads to is a lower flow rate, you then have to open the blumats more to compensate, the pipes can clear under the added pressure (so I theorise) and then you end up with a res dump. If that doesn't happen, at the very least inconsistent drip rates arise blumat to blumat where some are bottle necked and won't get enough water>yield.
Drip clean is a useful product that definitely works but never use it on the fly. Only ever use it after a good clinical level clean out or you will run a real risk of blocking the tiny blumat lines as drip clean really does pick up all the sludge (first hand). You can use it at 1/4 rate if you are only using plain water, this will be more as a ''just in-case''. If fully synthetic and using what you know is a clean nutrient (like jacks raw salts) then you will be able to go with 1/2 strength drip clean again as a ''just in-case''. I use full strength as I have my own reasons to do so, such as my bilge pump leading from my main res that I use to fill the small reservoirs. The pump can gather some build up in the pipes so I use for this reason. Also keep your res/reses sealed as tight as possible to keep contaminants from falling in. Reses/pipes should also be completely light sealed for algea build up, ignore that at your own demise. I have a separate drill pump for clearing any water that may find it's way into the catch gutter system. The pipes on that drill pump are half see through, they are completely green on the inside. Algea evidently has a high tolerance level.
Neutrient strength has been the biggest challenge. When you get it wrong it is difficult to correct. I won't even pretend I have it figured properly yet although I feel about 80% there. To get a real understanding of it requires you to know the minimum ppm values of plants, and then you need a little bit trial and error to translate that into a blumat system that doesn't have run off.
The flow rate of your system matters, as will your temps and light distance. It isn't an easy thing to dial in properly since your pressure rates from res will effect flow rate (as in my arrow positions won't be the same as yours) along with different neutriant types/ratios etc.
This is something I am still trying to figure out to become consistant. In truth it's hit and miss at the minute. When they work and get dialled in you end up with 4inch high root mounds and crystals/density up and down the plant like you've never seen before. If you are having problems for what ever reason you will wonder why you bother, since the results are at best on par with manual feeding+the hassle/negative feelings of knowing you didn't get it spot on this time.
My advice for anybody trying this is to only do it with 1/4 of your pots for a few runs. You will run into trouble that much I am almost certain of., but at-least you won't be risking it all. I still don't run it fully, I do it on half and will not go all in until I get 2 in a row of no issues. Keep this in mind as it's no understatement, if you have a runaway linked res just after a top up you could lose them all if you are not doing daily checks. If you end up with neut issues they are very difficult to figure out and fix.. as they could be a combination of things due to no run off.
On a side note, anybody who knows what ratios and elemental ppm values they are running please share.
Mine are: Elemental ppm
N - 150 (reduced by half after week 4 or so) started seing slight N tox with no run off otherwise.
P - 38 in V 60 in F
K - 160 > 189
C - 95 > cut in half same time as N
M - 60
S - 65
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JustBlazin
Well-Known Member
3 feet is just enough, i have my smaller pots on a table so they are at about 3 feet and my bigger ones are on the floor and about 5 feet, they work great on both high and low
but from what I've read 3 feet is minimum
sfsdfuturegrower
Member
For the perilite if the touch the ceramic apart of the carrot it will trick the blumat, you can have perlite in your media but what I did was put some coco into the hole that I had put the carrot in to push any aeration away from the carrot. Just kind of of pushed more into the hole and put the carrot back a few times and it seemed to work good. I did have a runaway before I did the coco. Also I made sure the coco was very moist before using it.
JustBlazin
Well-Known Member
sounds like you are running yours like they are the blumat jrs with 1 res per carrot.
sorry for your bad luck with these so far, hopefully you get it all figured out cause like you said when they are working they really rock!!!
when you set yours up they have the three foot elavation from blumat to bulkhead fitting? also do you use perlite in your mix? they can screw with the ceramic cone if the cone is touching perlite. i do what the above poster said dig hole just bigger than the blumat fill with straight peat or ewc then push blumat in wiggle around a bit take out fill hole again then stuff it in so its nice and tight then make sure you water all around the blumat so it soaks in and creates a good fit.
i do that and it work amazing, i am only on my second run with these, my first run i did 30(most plants ive done at once) cause i was just doing a pheno hunt with a bunch of the seeds i have accumulated. so ya i jumped in head first with no exp at all other than hand watering.
have had 2 minor problems so far
1. about 2 weeks after installing came into the tent to find about two litres on the ground as one pot was running away but luckely i caught it pretty quick and only lost like half gallon, took out carrot and it was empty. after contemplating what happened i realized said plant was light for a few days or maybe even a week when i went in the tent and i would try and turn it up but it would still be light didnt think anything of it till i saw it running away. luckily i had some extra carrots ready to so just slapped another carrot in there and it was good the rest of the grow.
2. Well lesson learned from problem 1 about a week later go in tent and notice a plant in the back has no wet spot on the top of the medium(should always be a moisture spot where the drip point is, except when you first set them up but i guess the hole medium should be wet at that point so yes should always be a wet spot) and its obviously not dripping. so i pick it up and as soon as i pick it up water starts shooting over the side of the pot and was hitting my hand(only used 1 gallon pots for this hunt) so watered the plant to get it moist again took out the blumat and to my surprise it was still 95% full which is what most the other ones were. so i was kinda baffled. but i was reading the giant blumat thread on icmag at the time and learned that an air bubble was trapped in my 3mm line and when i picked it up i knocked the bubble free so the water started to flow again. on that system i had put a tee fitting right after my bulkhead to let out any air that might come out of my res, but it pretty much does the opposite, i put a clear tube on it also to see how much water was in my res at any given time and any time i would use my 8mm purge line at the opposite side of my tent to my res you could see all the water drop out of the clear air bleeder/visual water gauge and start letting in a bunch of air into my system. so everytime i used said 8mm purge line it would always be burping air cause of all the air in the line. so after that grow got rid of the T after bulk fitting and the whole thing has worked like a absolute champ ever since.
now i have one set up for veg and one for flower and both have worked great since those two issues.
i also did alot better job setting the blumats after my first go around made sure there was lost of peat/ewc in the hole the blumat was going in and soaked it in there good plus i pushed them right in so all you can see is a bit of the green top and the dial
pretty sure the blumat and the roots end up in like a symbiotic relationship... shits pretty cool
and ya my plants do seem alot bigger and frostier than usual
JustBlazin
Well-Known Member
heres an article member northwood posted yesterday. its pretty good article that talks about getting optimal growth by keeping your soil at the perfect moisture level. it mentions research by the university of guelph so its not this bro science bullshit that people on here spout of as fact
full disclosure i believed in the wet/dry myth forever...then i started using blumats..lol.... and god said let there be light
A plant-centered approach to watering - Greenhouse Canada
full disclosure i believed in the wet/dry myth forever...then i started using blumats..lol.... and god said let there be light
A plant-centered approach to watering - Greenhouse Canada
guitarguy10
Well-Known Member
I got some bluemat maxis the other day that I plan on trying in this large 18" barrel planter I have my mother plant in. I will let this thread know how it goes.
JustBlazin
Well-Known Member
if you set them up properly you will most likely love them
didn't realize how much of a pain in the ass hand watering was until i got them...
didn't realize how much of a pain in the ass hand watering was until i got them...
Flowki
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately I've had to stop using them. The height I had to play with in awkward shape room didn't allow enough elevation I would say, and I will not risk a large res as the runaway will be terrible in my situation. On top of that I noticed another problem over time. The outside plants, those with no overlapping light end up with darker green leaves, this is becuase ofc less light.. but also no run off (blumats). If I counter this by reducing N ppm in slave res, then the pots with over lapping light will start to get N deficiancy. This means I would need two slave reses, one with lower N for outside pots, one with higher for overlapping light pots. That's a bridge too far for me. This issue can happen without blumats Im sure people have seen it when not using a tent, but it is enhanced two fold with blumats due to no run off.
On top of that, things have to go perfect the whole time, one block and the root system above coco dies. If you try to run a higher RH for VPD, this also means that the blumats will not turn on as much, and you don't get much nutrients into the coco. This means you have to increase over all nutrient strength so that what moisture does get in, has enough ppm in it to sustain the lower repiration rate. However, If RH is not rigerously maintained and drops, you will end up with neut burn over night since the lower RH means roots will take up more of that stronger ppm nutrient. With manual feeding you can put the normal ppm in and give run off to stop build ups, with blumats, the moisture and automation blocks that ability in a vpd situation.
The watering wand I am using is much easier and since I was up there every day anyway.. it does close to the same job as blumats. Although blumats dialed in were better, the logistics and hit and miss nature in my situation have made it more hassle than it is worth on average. I gave it a good run, they had a fair chance, it's really a shame for me as I like them, but you gotte know when something just isn't working good enough.
This is only for me bare in mind. If I had a situation that could allow the better use of blumats, large slave res, flower tent room for even par etc.. it would have been a lot more stable. But if you don't have those things then I guess I act as a warning to others.
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OrgrO
Well-Known Member
I'm on my second run using Blumats dripping water only into amended organic soil. The plants love it and so do the bugs. First run plants started yellowing out 1/2 way through flower. Scoped the soil and found the root zone over run by a variety of soil mites, larvae and potworms. They were so thick they were climbing all over each other wherever I scooped out a sample. This second run I used Azasol in the drip water to take care of the larvae and spinosad soil drench for the mites. Larvae and mites no problem this run but the potworm population is running rampant. Shutting down the Blumats for now to see if letting the soil dry out will take care of them because the Azasol and spinosad had no affect on the potworms and hadn't been able to find any info on how to eradicate them or keep the population in check.
Also i just used a “super” soil from the local hydro shop, no bug issues like stated above, no clogging, ran mega crop 2 part through it most of the run with a couple days of just water every couple weeks. Over time there was some salt buildup on the dripper heads but doesn't effect anything. I highly recommend getting the 9” maxis instead of the regular 5” ones, i had my rez sitting on a 2’ high shelf taking care of pots at ground level with the main water supply line laying on the ground and it still worked no problems just dont open up your adjustments too much more than recommended you will run into problems then. They are a set and forget system other than the regualr rez care from my experience
