Dems side with Republicans to reject amendment to reduce Pentagon budget by 10%

[Fogdog]

Hoyer says Democrats aren't demanding '$600 or bust' in unemployment stimulus talks

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said Tuesday that Democrats are willing to agree to a new coronavirus stimulus package that doesn't include an extension of an extra $600 in weekly unemployment benefits, saying the party's position is not "$600 or bust."

amp.cnn.com

Democrats shooting themselves in the foot trying to edge up as close to the corporate line as possible. They've sided with lobbyists and the insurance industry on healthcare during a pandemic with 20 million more people being thrown off their healthcare. When it was Sanders m4a plan during the primary - I lie they knowingly propagated - it was the end of the world. So much for keeping the healthcare you want.

if Biden wins and democrats take the Senate, they're not going to get rid of the filibuster (republicans surely would). They need a scapegoat so they can continue to blame their legislative failures on republican obstruction. They slowly lose favor, republicans sweep 2022 midterms just like they did in 2010 because many people that vote for Biden want real change and will go back to being apathetic toward politics. Fogdog and Hannibal will blame the voters for the democrats loss, and someone worse than Trump will emerge and likely become the 47th president. Rinse, repeat

It's going to be so nice when you shift from trying to get Trump re-elected to carping about details on laws passed by Democrats and signed by President Biden.

If Bernie had won, he would have lost.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Your faith in Democrats ability to force Trump and the Republicans into doing anything you are kidding yourself.

They can't get rid of the filibuster, because then you would have had Trump and his Republicans first 2 years wiping out a hundred years of progress to give everything back to the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only demographic.

The Republicans bill had it at $200 and gave Trump the FBI building so that he didn't get competition to his DC hotel. Are you kidding, 'the establishment' Democrat shit is so weak.

Just like I said, you're already preempting Democratic legislative failures to Defend Biden and the Democratic party when they fail to pass meaningful legislation

There are two options; a. Biden wins and Dems take control of Senate, b. Biden wins and Republicans retain control of Senate

If Biden wins and Dems take control of the Senate, then fail to get rid of the filibuster, they will blame Republicans obstruction Bidens entire presidency, no meaningful legislation gets passed as no Republicans will vote for it. Voter apathy ensues, Dems lose in the midterms

If Biden wins and Republicans retain control of the Senate, the same scenario takes place and likely leads to similar results

The only way for Democrats to retain control for more than one term is to pass meaningful legislation, the only way to pass meaningful legislation is by eliminating the filibuster

 

[Fogdog]

Hoyer says Democrats aren't demanding '$600 or bust' in unemployment stimulus talks

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said Tuesday that Democrats are willing to agree to a new coronavirus stimulus package that doesn't include an extension of an extra $600 in weekly unemployment benefits, saying the party's position is not "$600 or bust."

amp.cnn.com

Democrats shooting themselves in the foot trying to edge up as close to the corporate line as possible. They've sided with lobbyists and the insurance industry on healthcare during a pandemic with 20 million more people being thrown off their healthcare. When it was Sanders m4a plan during the primary - I lie they knowingly propagated - it was the end of the world. So much for keeping the healthcare you want.

if Biden wins and democrats take the Senate, they're not going to get rid of the filibuster (republicans surely would). They need a scapegoat so they can continue to blame their legislative failures on republican obstruction. They slowly lose favor, republicans sweep 2022 midterms just like they did in 2010 because many people that vote for Biden want real change and will go back to being apathetic toward politics. Fogdog and Hannibal will blame the voters for the democrats loss, and someone worse than Trump will emerge and likely become the 47th president. Rinse, repeat

Your favorite lawmaker, James Clyburn of South Carolina was on NPR recently and the question of the filibuster came up. Of course, he's a Representative and was politically astute in his answer. He did make a good point.

Republicans quashed the use of filibuster on court appointees and he observed that the quality of judges appointed without the consent of both sides is abysmal, with many unqualified judges being appointed.

I know you don't care but I do. I'm OK with a debate on the subject.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Your favorite lawmaker, James Clyburn of South Carolina was on NPR recently and the question of the filibuster came up. Of course, he's a Representative and was politically astute in his answer. He did make a good point.

Republicans quashed the use of filibuster on court appointees and he observed that the quality of judges appointed without the consent of both sides is abysmal, with many unqualified judges being appointed.

I know you don't care but I do. I'm OK with a debate on the subject.

If Democrats appointed judges without confirmation from Republicans, what do you think Jordan or Gaetz would report about their quality?

Groundbreaking analysis

 

[Fogdog]

If Democrats appointed judges without confirmation from Republicans, what do you think Jordan or Gaetz would report about their quality?

Groundbreaking analysis

If Bernie hadn't lost, he would have won. Isn't that another of your hypothetical postures?

 

[hanimmal]

Just like I said, you're already preempting Democratic legislative failures to Defend Biden and the Democratic party when they fail to pass meaningful legislation

There are two options; a. Biden wins and Dems take control of Senate, b. Biden wins and Republicans retain control of Senate

If Biden wins and Dems take control of the Senate, then fail to get rid of the filibuster, they will blame Republicans obstruction Bidens entire presidency, no meaningful legislation gets passed as no Republicans will vote for it. Voter apathy ensues, Dems lose in the midterms

If Biden wins and Republicans retain control of the Senate, the same scenario takes place and likely leads to similar results

The only way for Democrats to retain control for more than one term is to pass meaningful legislation, the only way to pass meaningful legislation is by eliminating the filibuster

They can get 60 seats in the senate, the Democrats could pass anything they needed.

But yes, this is likely not going to be some fantasy presidency where every left-troll is silenced into only being Russian and other foreign trolls.

It is going to be a dogfight to try to stop this racist, fascist POTUS so that our democratic (little d) values don't get stomped on any longer. And stop the racist practices like gerrymandering and stuffing judge appointments and other cabinet positions with cultists so that the work the government should be doing, can get done.

 

[Padawanbater2]

They can get 60 seats in the senate, the Democrats could pass anything they needed.

There is no path to winning 60 seats in the Senate, if they could, they wouldn't need to kill the filibuster to pass meaningful legislation

We've already ran this experiment during Obama's administration. I'm telling you what's going to happen because it's happened before. If they don't kill it, they won't remain popular enough to stay in power. You want Democrats in power, right? They have to offer Democratic voters what they want, and it won't really matter what excuse they use if they don't get it done, blame Republicans, blame Democratic voters, do the same thing they always do. The results will remain the same.

 

[hanimmal]

There is no path to winning 60 seats in the Senate, if they could, they wouldn't need to kill the filibuster to pass meaningful legislation

We've already ran this experiment during Obama's administration. I'm telling you what's going to happen because it's happened before. If they don't kill it, they won't remain popular enough to stay in power. You want Democrats in power, right? They have to offer Democratic voters what they want, and it won't really matter what excuse they use if they don't get it done, blame Republicans, blame Democratic voters, do the same thing they always do. The results will remain the same.

They can't give the Republicans the power to push through everything they want.

If you can't understand that then you are trying to be ignorant of what they have been doing during Trump's presidency.

We need to win more seats and to get better Republicans in office that actually want to see America prosper, and not just the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda like the current flock of Republicans only care about legislating for.

 

[Padawanbater2]

They can't give the Republicans the power to push through everything they want.

If you can't understand that then you are trying to be ignorant of what they have been doing during Trump's presidency.

We need to win more seats and to get better Republicans in office that actually want to see America prosper, and not just the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda like the current flock of Republicans only care about legislating for.

They've already done it to appoint hundreds of unqualified conservative judges

You're saying Democrats shouldn't do what Republicans have already done out of fear that Republicans might do it

 

[hanimmal]

They've already done it to appoint hundreds of unqualified conservative judges

You're saying Democrats shouldn't do what Republicans have already done out of fear that Republicans might do it

Exactly, that is the obvious problem, Mitch McConnell was able to stuff judges because they only needed 51 votes because the Democrats lowered it to get t any nominations through, and look at what happened, the Republicans were stopping them on purpose to get them to do it because they wanted to take it one step further and use it on the SCOTUS.

Our system is meant to give the 'minority' party the chance to not get steamrolled by the 'majority' party. We just need to win more states, we are so close to getting highly intelligent people from sections of our society who have never had a say in how our government is ran in enough numbers to really get a lot of work done for our society and economy, it would be devastating to give up all the hard won fights just to lose it all when the next Republican president is elected.

 

[Padawanbater2]

That's your opinion, not reality

You're not going to get Republicans to agree with Joe Biden or the Democrats agenda no matter how long you wait, and waiting around for Republicans to come around is a luxury millions of Americans don't have. Republicans force through legislation whenever they get the chance. That's what Democrats need to do for the sake of the country and maintaining democracy. Democrats do it or they get voted out again like last time.

 

[hanimmal]

That's your opinion, not reality

You're not going to get Republicans to agree with Joe Biden or the Democrats agenda no matter how long you wait, and waiting around for Republicans to come around is a luxury millions of Americans don't have. Republicans force through legislation whenever they get the chance. That's what Democrats need to do for the sake of the country and maintaining democracy. Democrats do it or they get voted out again like last time.

It is my opinion on exactly how it happened that Trump was able to stuff judges being the exact logic that you are spouting here being exploited by the Republicans?

We will see. But what your opinion is has been shown to be at best a sugar high, a short lived benefit that hurts longer in the long run. And one that only sounds good if you think stuffing shit down throats works longterm and not working together to make our country as great as it can be.

And that I do disagree with.

We can't even trust the Republicans to protect us from the Russian attack on our citizens, and you want to trust them with being able to push legislation down our throats?

 

[Padawanbater2]

It is my opinion on exactly how it happened that Trump was able to stuff judges being the exact logic that you are spouting here being exploited by the Republicans?

We will see. But what your opinion is has been shown to be at best a sugar high, a short lived benefit that hurts longer in the long run. And one that only sounds good if you think stuffing shit down throats works longterm and not working together to make our country as great as it can be.

And that I do disagree with.

We can't even trust the Republicans to protect us from the Russian attack on our citizens, and you want to trust them with being able to push legislation down our throats?

You want to sit here and try to work with Republicans while they spit in Democrats eye every chance they get then gloat about it. They're not going to work with you no matter how much you want things to be bipartisan, they've already told you to go fuck yourself and pissed all over bipartisanship to get their agenda passed without it. Stop falling for their bullshit.

 

[Padawanbater2]

They cry about bipartisanship when they're not in power, just like they cry about the debt/deficit when Democrats are in control. As soon as they obtain power, bipartisanship goes out the window, debt/deficit what??

 

[hanimmal]

You want to sit here and try to work with Republicans while they spit in Democrats eye every chance they get then gloat about it. They're not going to work with you no matter how much you want things to be bipartisan, they've already told you to go fuck yourself and pissed all over bipartisanship to get their agenda passed without it. Stop falling for their bullshit.

You mean fellow American citizens?

 

[Padawanbater2]

You mean fellow American citizens?

Fascists

 

[Fogdog]

That's your opinion, not reality

You're not going to get Republicans to agree with Joe Biden or the Democrats agenda no matter how long you wait, and waiting around for Republicans to come around is a luxury millions of Americans don't have. Republicans force through legislation whenever they get the chance. That's what Democrats need to do for the sake of the country and maintaining democracy. Democrats do it or they get voted out again like last time.

Agree that "statistically possibile" isn't the same as "likely". So, assuming we fail to get a super majority in the senate, we need to talk about the benefits and risks of ending the filibuster rule in the Senate.

You are hopelessly incoherent so I'm not really speaking to you, just the topic. I can see good reasons why we need to end the filibuster, the main one being that Republicans abused this check on abusive majority rule by invoking the filibuster too often and crashing Congress's role as the legislative branch of government. As one of the members of the Progressive caucus put it, we are in an emergency and can't respond because every bill meant to address the emergency is stymied in the Senate. Progress on carbon emissions, campaign finance reform, health care for all, wage inequality, voting rights are all caught in an eddy caused by Republican use of the filibuster. I can see why the reactionary wing of the Democratic party are agitating for it, all 90 of them in the House. How many in the Senate? Like, 2?

So let's talk about what no fiiibuster looks like. Each and every time a shift in the balance of power takes place, EVERY statute can be changed. The civil rights act, food and drug regulations, environmental protections, labor laws. All of them.

We already have a problem like that when the presidency changes hands. Administrative rules change for the better or worse every four years.

We need to have a debate about the filibuster and how to restore the ability of the legislative branch to do its job without making it too easy roll back progress.

I do love how you cling to this idea that Democrats will get "voted out" if we don't do what you say. That's cute. Democratic socialists are a wing of the Democratic Party. A small but important one. There should be little doubt that in 10 or 15 years, there is more than a "realm of possibility" that this currently unproductive wing of the Democratic Party will be the majority. In which case, Democrats will still be around, just different. By then, it will be a different country too.

 

[hanimmal]

Fascists

That is why we got to get out in huge numbers and vote them out across the board top to bottom. And unfortunately we might end up with some Democratic trolls sneaking their way into office on that wave, and we will then have to vote them out next. And meanwhile the Republicans can go back to the drawing board and get some real leadership and not the trolls that they have been tricked into voting for since 9/11. Sure they might have not changed their sex or skin color much, but they will at least have to understand that we are one nation and all do better when our children all have as easy of a pathway as possible to being as successful as they are able to.

We are not there, but we have just gotten to the point that one party looks like the country.

America is a long term project, outside of the virus, and internet targeting and militarized trolling amplifying everything, things are about the same as they always have been. Setting it up that every populous movement causes a systemic shift just increases the odds of idiot cult leaders getting in power.

 

[Fogdog]

That is why we got to get out in huge numbers and vote them out across the board top to bottom. And unfortunately we might end up with some Democratic trolls sneaking their way into office on that wave, and we will then have to vote them out next. And meanwhile the Republicans can go back to the drawing board and get some real leadership and not the trolls that they have been tricked into voting for since 9/11. Sure they might have not changed their sex or skin color much, but they will at least have to understand that we are one nation and all do better when our children all have as easy of a pathway as possible to being as successful as they are able to.

We are not there, but we have just gotten to the point that one party looks like the country.

America is a long term project, outside of the virus, and internet targeting and militarized trolling amplifying everything, things are about the same as they always have been. Setting it up that every populous movement causes a systemic shift just increases the odds of idiot cult leaders getting in power.

Its funny how he shows up all high handed and demanding what he wants without compromise when his people can't win a seat in a contested district. Also -- that bit about reality as if he has any connection to it. too funny that

 

[Padawanbater2]

That is why we got to get out in huge numbers and vote them out across the board top to bottom.

That's the idea, but if Democrats fail to deliver any meaningful legislation, voters won't vote for Democrats in the midterms or in 2024, and they won't have the benefit of pointing at the alternative in Trump and his failed administration. The next president is going to have to deal with the fallout, that means dealing with things like the eviction crisis/unemployment/healthcare in the immediate term. How Democrats in congress seem to be signalling now doesn't inspire very much hope they'll succeed. They're already caving to Republicans on actual relief before negotiations even begin. So if Biden fumbles like Trump did voters are going to let him know in 2022. It won't be the voters fault for not supporting the Democratic party, it'll be the Democratic politicians for not actually getting the things they want done.