Help Diagnosing

Gimiik

Active Member
Hi all,

I'm hoping somebody can help me identify why my plant is looking the way it is.
Some information: Plant is in Day 17 Veg. I transplanted yesterday from red solo cup --> 1gal filled with FFOF, top-dressed with EWC + ground malted barley. I had clover growing in the 1gal pot while I was waiting for the seedling was ready for transplant, could this have affected it?

Possible Nitrogen + Calcium deficiency?
Visit my journal for additional information... Link in Sig, Organic No Bottle.
Photo Aug 06, 6 46 23 PM.jpg
Photo Aug 06, 6 46 28 PM.jpg
 

SCM 831

Well-Known Member
The soil doesn’t look like ffof, is it from last year or something? Your plant shouldn’t have any deficiencies with brand new ffof and that doesn’t really look like burn
 

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
I would wait and see how the plant does adapt to the new soil... and give only give water for the moment... looks like a nutrition imbalance....
 

CannaCountry

Well-Known Member
It's not a N deficiency nor a Ca deficiency.

It looks like an Mg issue, and for as small as the plant is, and as decent as the soil is you're using, it's most likely a pH issue, causing you the Mg issue.

Do you know your pH?
 

KingQuazy

Well-Known Member
You're overwatering. Just let it dry out and don't water it so frequently. I have a group that I can't always get to on a regular schedule so I hit them with water each day "just to be safe" and they do are doing the same thing that yours are doing. I actually am gonna lose one or two because I can't afford not to. Survival of the fittest I guess lol

You also have a wee bit of transplant shock going on. While the leaf is definitely reading a nutrient issue, you can rest assure it's because of the stagnant environment that the roots can't escape, causing issues. Personally I let my cups get bone dry and transplant while the plant is wilting. They respond positively to the transplant due to the water they weren't getting.
 

Gimiik

Active Member
The soil doesn’t look like ffof, is it from last year or something? Your plant shouldn’t have any deficiencies with brand new ffof and that doesn’t really look like burn
Its like 1month old FFOF. I filled the pots and sprinkled clover seed at the same time I was germinating my seeds but due to some issues early on it took me much longer to successfully sprout any of the seeds. So the clover had fully grown in by the point i was ready to transplant. The pictures are from after I already trimmed the clover and top dressed with EWC/ground barley... which is why it probably looks weird.
It's not a N deficiency nor a Ca deficiency.

It looks like an Mg issue, and for as small as the plant is, and as decent as the soil is you're using, it's most likely a pH issue, causing you the Mg issue.

Do you know your pH?
I haven't been pH'ing my water. I've been using RO water so I imagine its somewhere around neutral.

You're overwatering. Just let it dry out and don't water it so frequently. I have a group that I can't always get to on a regular schedule so I hit them with water each day "just to be safe" and they do are doing the same thing that yours are doing. I actually am gonna lose one or two because I can't afford not to. Survival of the fittest I guess lol

You also have a wee bit of transplant shock going on. While the leaf is definitely reading a nutrient issue, you can rest assure it's because of the stagnant environment that the roots can't escape, causing issues. Personally I let my cups get bone dry and transplant while the plant is wilting. They respond positively to the transplant due to the water they weren't getting.
Yeah I'm not going to do anything for a few days, let the plant make the next move. If things don't improve I can always transplant into a 1gal container with my cooked super soil, coots recipe.
 

inth3shadowz

Well-Known Member
Id def say overwatering, which will then lead to fungus gnats, which leads to unhealthy roots, which leads to what I have right now...LOL!! FFOF takes my buddy all the way to flower easy like 6 weeks veg, I think he just top dresses with more FFOF.
 

CannaCountry

Well-Known Member
This..."I haven't been pH'ing my water. I've been using RO water so I imagine its somewhere around neutral." Neutral is 7, and that's too high...and that's just assuming it's neutral. I'd take the time to learn about pH if your plan is to be successful in this endeavor.
 

Gimiik

Active Member
Weird thing is I've ran FFOF during veg several runs now and never had to pH. Never had any issues. Plus its only the one plant.

I'm going to give the plant some time to figure out its next move and if it doesn't improve I may just transplant it into my super soil that is buffered so I don't have to worry about pH.
 

Mrs. Weedstein

Well-Known Member
Its like 1month old FFOF. I filled the pots and sprinkled clover seed at the same time I was germinating my seeds but due to some issues early on it took me much longer to successfully sprout any of the seeds. So the clover had fully grown in by the point i was ready to transplant. The pictures are from after I already trimmed the clover and top dressed with EWC/ground barley... which is why it probably looks weird.


I haven't been pH'ing my water. I've been using RO water so I imagine its somewhere around neutral.



Yeah I'm not going to do anything for a few days, let the plant make the next move. If things don't improve I can always transplant into a 1gal container with my cooked super soil, coots recipe.
I suspect your problem may be caused or aggravated by the clover you planted. While using this type of “green manure” to boost nitrogen in soil is commendable, it doesn’t lend itself well to containers.

Although clover does fix nitrogen, it usually takes a while to do actually do so — the plant needs to be more mature to absorb much from the air.

Another problem is that nitrogen absorbed by clover isn’t immediately available to the plant. It needs to be broken down over time by microbes for the nitrogen to become useful.

For these reasons, planting and mowing clover as a form of “green manure” is usually done in outdoor fields as part of a continuous cycle. So, your plants are fed by the previous year’s clover crop which has been plowed into the ground. You won’t realize much benefit from clover grown in a container for a few weeks in the same season that you’re planting your cannabis.

So while you’re not helping the soil in the container regarding nitrogen, the clover still consumes decent amounts of phosphorous and potassium it can’t fix from the atmosphere, as well as micronutrients such as copper, iron, manganese and zinc.

In other words, the clover likely depleted some essential minerals without having enough time to contribute much of anything.

If you’re able to, I’d advise experimenting with green manure cycles outdoors instead in the future. As for this particular plant, I’d use a very diluted organic fertilizer such as Grow for now, then transplant into a larger container with soil that hasn’t received the green manure treatment.
This..."I haven't been pH'ing my water. I've been using RO water so I imagine its somewhere around neutral." Neutral is 7, and that's too high...and that's just assuming it's neutral. I'd take the time to learn about pH if your plan is to be successful in this endeavor.
I grow in soil without ever checking the pH of the water for my cannabis. It grows fine, just like all the other plants in my yard that get irrigated straight from the hose. To each his own, but I’d go crazy testing and adjusting the pH of every gallon I use on my plants, LOL! I’m sure your plants appreciate the effort, but that’s too much work for me to fix a problem I don’t have. :)
 

CannaCountry

Well-Known Member
I grow in soil without ever checking the pH of the water for my cannabis. It grows fine, just like all the other plants in my yard. To each his own, but I’d go crazy testing and adjusting the pH of every gallon I use on my plants, LOL! I’m sure your plants appreciate the effort, but that’s too much work for me to fix a problem I don’t have. :)
[/QUOTE]

That's just it...you're not the one with the problem; the OP is. Never the less, to each their own indeed.
 

Mrs. Weedstein

Well-Known Member
That's just it...you're not the one with the problem; the OP is. Never the less, to each their own indeed.
Just a friendly disagreement here, not trying to be a dick but do enjoy a healthy discussion: If reverse osmosis was is generally more acidic than pure water at 6.0-6.5 pH, then it seems less likely to be the source of the problem. I’ve got my money on the clover depleting key nutes. If the OP lightly fertilizes then eventually transplants, my guess is the problem will resolve without adjusting pH.
 

Gimiik

Active Member
Hey guys I appreciate the discussion!

@Mrs. Weedstein Thank you for detailed response. You're probably right about the clover being the source of the problem as that's the only different variable from other grows. It's clear to me now I misunderstood the process in which the clover becomes useful in regards to nitrogen availability for my plant. Instead of planting in my smaller containers I should have planted it in my no-till flower pots. No worries though its all a learning experience :)

Do you think I should topdress and give a light watering? Or wait until the pot dries up and topdress/water then?
 

Mrs. Weedstein

Well-Known Member
Hey guys I appreciate the discussion!

@Mrs. Weedstein Thank you for detailed response. You're probably right about the clover being the source of the problem as that's the only different variable from other grows. It's clear to me now I misunderstood the process in which the clover becomes useful in regards to nitrogen availability for my plant. Instead of planting in my smaller containers I should have planted it in my no-till flower pots. No worries though its all a learning experience :)

Do you think I should topdress and give a light watering? Or wait until the pot dries up and topdress/water then?
Probably best off waiting until it’s ready to be watered. What do you top dress with?
 

Gimiik

Active Member
Well based on what you said about the clover using P/K + Micro nutrients I was thinking I could top dress with
  • Kelp Meal (1-0-2) <--- Micro nutrients
  • Neem Seed Meal (6-1-2) <--- P/K
I also have some rock dust on hand but idk if it will break down quick enough to be effective. Worst comes to worst I can go down to the hydro and pick up some 4-4-4 or some other general fertilizer.
 

Mrs. Weedstein

Well-Known Member
Well based on what you said about the clover using P/K + Micro nutrients I was thinking I could top dress with
  • Kelp Meal (1-0-2) <--- Micro nutrients
  • Neem Seed Meal (6-1-2) <--- P/K
I also have some rock dust on hand but idk if it will break down quick enough to be effective. Worst comes to worst I can go down to the hydro and pick up some 4-4-4 or some other general fertilizer.
Since you seem geared toward organic methods, Age Old Nutrients has got Grow fertilizer for veg and Bloom for flower, both organic. You may want to go with Bloom since it’s 5-10-5.

I have been pretty happy with them. I’m not a diehard organic devotee but I prefer organic fertilizer as I’ve yet to have problems with any nitrogen toxicity or anything like that. I also tend to avoid hardcore pesticides since I’ve found beneficial predators are really very effective outdoors. Main thing is I have a big diversity of refugia for them, particularly various perennials.
 

Mrs. Weedstein

Well-Known Member
Yeah my goal for this grow is go 100% organic. My first few runs I used synthetic nutrients and had zero problems but I want to switch things up and grow a little healthier product.

Take a look at my grow journal if you're interested.
https://rollitup.org/t/gimiiks-first-organics-grow-no-bottled-nutes.1025099/#post-15711943
I’ll take a look. I’ve been working in the agricultural field for most of my adult life and have definitely seen that organic production can have substantial benefits, aside from just market premium.

First of all, even non-organic growers have come around to the value of beneficial insects. In the nursery industry, using predatory insects is increasingly becoming the norm.

Secondly, over the past decade there have have severe spikes in synthetic nitrogen prices. Followed by severe drops. Some farmers have bought overpriced urea, thinking they wouldn’t be able to get any nitrogen at all, only to be stuck with overpriced fertilizer.

A constant replenishment of the soil with organic matter, cover crops to increase aeration, plant diversity and refugia for beneficials — all of this makes agronomic sense. It’s not just marketing.

And then obviously with weed, you’re literally going to set fire to plant biomass and inhale the fumes. Some pesticides are safe to use on fruits and vegetables, even, but turn to arsenic when set aflame. So yeah, it’s a good idea to be careful!
 

Gimiik

Active Member
Hey all,
This having issues with my plants. I posted pictures from today in my grow journal and gave a brief update. Would you mind popping over there and taking a look? I'm lost as to what I should do next.
 
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