Requesting help with dry nutrients

[WillieP]

Hello all,
I was wondering if someone would be willing to give me a breakdown of the current dry nutrient solution that I am currently using in my Ebb and Flow Hydro system.
Or teach me how...I attempted to use an online spreadsheet to give me a breakdown, but I got lost.
I am feeding two plants, (separate strains) from the same reservoir. They are currently on day 24 since flip to 12/12. One of the plants is doing well, and the other is failing badly.

The Veg nutrients that I used were.

2 parts Masterblend (4-18-38 )
1 part Epsom Salt
2 parts Calcium Nitrate (15.5-0-0)

These were fed at a PPM of 250-600 depending on the level of development, and how the plants were feeding.

When I moved to Bloom I added:
1 part MKP (0-52-34)
1 part Potassium Sulfate (0-0-53)

These are fed at 700-850 PPM

I just did a reservoir change tonight.

I used:
4 grams Masterblend
2 grams Epsom Salts
4 grams Calcium Nitrate
2 grams MKP
2 grams Potassium Sulfate
These were mixed in 6 gallons of RO water with 4 ml of Cal/Mag per gallon (total 24 ml)
This makes for a solution of 732 PPM.

It's not hard to tell that the one plant is having issues...



All other growing conditions are the same and second plant is doing fine.
I believe this is a nutrient issue. That is why I asked for a breakdown of what I'm feeding them.

Any help would be most welcome. This is only my second grow, if you would like anymore info you may be able to find it here:

WillieP's World

Hey all! WillieP here. I wanted to start a thread in the Grow Journal section to document my grows, and also to serve as a place to keep my notes and photos in one place. (this is a follow up to this thread...

www.rollitup.org

Or feel free to ask, if I have missed anything.

Thanks,
WillieP

 

[cannabineer]

Hello all,
I was wondering if someone would be willing to give me a breakdown of the current dry nutrient solution that I am currently using in my Ebb and Flow Hydro system.
Or teach me how...I attempted to use an online spreadsheet to give me a breakdown, but I got lost.
I am feeding two plants, (separate strains) from the same reservoir. They are currently on day 24 since flip to 12/12. One of the plants is doing well, and the other is failing badly.

The Veg nutrients that I used were.

2 parts Masterblend (4-18-38 )
1 part Epsom Salt
2 parts Calcium Nitrate (15.5-0-0)

These were fed at a PPM of 250-600 depending on the level of development, and how the plants were feeding.

When I moved to Bloom I added:
1 part MKP (0-52-34)
1 part Potassium Sulfate (0-0-53)

These are fed at 700-850 PPM

I just did a reservoir change tonight.

I used:
4 grams Masterblend
2 grams Epsom Salts
4 grams Calcium Nitrate
2 grams MKP
2 grams Potassium Sulfate
These were mixed in 6 gallons of RO water with 4 ml of Cal/Mag per gallon (total 24 ml)
This makes for a solution of 732 PPM.

It's not hard to tell that the one plant is having issues...

View attachment 4623688 View attachment 4623689

All other growing conditions are the same and second plant is doing fine.
I believe this is a nutrient issue. That is why I asked for a breakdown of what I'm feeding them.

Any help would be most welcome. This is only my second grow, if you would like anymore info you may be able to find it here:

WillieP's World

Hey all! WillieP here. I wanted to start a thread in the Grow Journal section to document my grows, and also to serve as a place to keep my notes and photos in one place. (this is a follow up to this thread...

www.rollitup.org

Or feel free to ask, if I have missed anything.

Thanks,
WillieP

I gotta say those numbers look viable.
What about iron and micros? Does the master blend have enough of them?

Oh and what medium?

 

[WillieP]

I gotta say those numbers look viable.
What about iron and micros? Does the master blend have enough of them?

Oh and what medium?

Here’s the readout for the MB:
4-18-38 Tomato Formula Guaranteed Analysis

Total Nitrogen (N) 3.5% Nitrate Nitrogen 0.5% Ammoniacal Nitrogen	4%
Available Phosphate (P2O5)	18%
Soluble Potash (K2O)	38%
Magnesium (Mg) (Total) 0.50% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)	0.50%
Boron (B)	0.20%
Copper (Cu) 0.05% Chelated Copper (Cu)	0.05%
Iron (Fe) 0.40% Chelated Iron (Fe)	0.40%
Manganese (Mn) 0.20% Chelated Manganese (Mn)	0.20%
Molybdenum (Mo	0.01%
Zinc (Zn) 0.05% Chelated Zinc (Zn)	0.05%

My set up is a little odd. I use individual 5 gallon totes with a 2 gallon fiber pot in them, filled with expanded clay pellets.



I wish I knew what to do for the plant that appears to be suffering.
WillieP

 

[smtent]

do you circulate your water? if so is it left to right or right to left?

 

[TintEastwood]

The MKP could be a bit much.
Check out Renfro ppm calculator.

 

[JCGreen81]

Good day,

Happily.

Are you using base RO water to start your Solution ?

 

[WillieP]

do you circulate your water? if so is it left to right or right to left?

I'm not sure I understand the question.
I have an external reservoir. I pump from it to fill the totes holding the plants. The pump runs for 2 minutes every 4 hours, when the pump shuts off it drains back to the reservoir by gravity.
Hope this answers your question.
WillieP

 

[WillieP]

The MKP could be a bit much.
Check out Renfro ppm calculator.

View attachment 4652010

Thanks for trying to help.
I'm not sure I understand.
I used 2 grams in 6 gallons of water, this chart says 1 gram per gallon.
These charts confuse me, please explain as if speaking to a child. LOL.
Thanks,
WillieP.

 

[WillieP]

Good day,

Happily.

Are you using base RO water to start your Solution ?

Yes, RO as the base water.

 

[TintEastwood]

Thanks for trying to help.
I'm not sure I understand.
I used 2 grams in 6 gallons of water, this chart says 1 gram per gallon.
These charts confuse me, please explain as if speaking to a child. LOL.
Thanks,
WillieP.

Glad to help if I can. High potassium is common. MKP has K.

Masterblend is similar to the Jacks I use.

How did you come up with your current nute mix?

 

[WillieP]

Glad to help if I can. High potassium is common. MKP has K.

Masterblend is similar to the Jacks I use.

How did you come up with your current nute mix?

Hey TE,
I use the Masterblend, Epson Salt and Cal/Ni in a 2 to 1 to 2 ratio (as directed) and then add RO water with 4 ml of Cal/Mag per gallon added till the PPM is at the level I want.
For example I used 7 grams Masterblend, 3.5 grams Epson Salt, and 7 grams Cal/Ni in 7 gallons of RO water (dosed with 28 ml of Cal/Mag) to get approx. 730 PPM. If I wanted it to be a lower PPM I would dilute with more dosed RO, if I wanted it stronger I would use less water.
The only time I have done anything different than this, on this grow, is the 3rd and 4th weeks of flower when I added 1 part MKP, and 1 part Potassium Sulfate.
This grow is nearing it's end and I am slowly decreasing the PPM's as I monitor the level and try to give the plant what it is wanting.

I am very inexperienced and I am trying to add a "PK booster" at the right time to try and help with bud development, as I have read that this is helpful.
I would like to use all dry products, but currently use a liquid Cal/Mag due to the fact that I use RO water as my base. I just don't know enough yet to get away from that.
I would also like to know how to lower the Nitrogen towards the end of bloom, but the Nitrogen I use is Cal/Ni and I don't know how to reduce that without dropping the Calcium level.
I have tried to use one of the online calculators, but got really lost, really fast. Is there a tutorial somewhere that shows what the plants want at what stage and how to give that to them using dry nutrients? I would love to understand that side of growing better, and learn what I should do myself, rather that just doing as I am told.

The original post was talking about two different strains, one doing well and one failing. The one failing did fail, it went Hermie and got the ax. I don't think it was it's fault, it was mine. I failed to give it the nutrients it needed and totally stressed it out. I was trying to feed two very different plants with the same nutrients from the same reservoir, that didn't work well, and I won't make that same mistake again. Individual reservoirs from now on.
Side Note: I cloned that plant, and gave them to a friend that grows in soil. They are doing well, he does say that they are heavy feeders.

Any advise on any of these topics, or growing with dry nutes in general are most welcome.

Thanks,
WillieP

 

[Dan_J]

i would say you have way too much K locking out mag, your potassium sulphate has nearly twice the amount of k of MKP, considering your base nutes are also high in k i would ditch the potassium sulphate for a quick fix.

ideally drop potassium sulphate maybe raise mag sulphate to 2.5-3g into a new res after a flush due to lock out or near lock out.
i'm a newb so correct me if wrong, but have been doing the research so is pretty fresh

chart below is NPK not N P2o K2o, at 500 scale ppm with your weights minus base nutes

edit: seems like your k to mg ratio with masterblend is 13.3/1, so drop the pot sul but raise the mag sul to 4g on the new res.
this will give you:
- k/mg 4.9/1
- ca/mg 2/1 roughly
- k/ ca 2.5/1 roughly

all of which should be alot safer

 

[TintEastwood]

Ok.
Here's my first stab at breaking it down.

Note: this is using calimagic. What type of calmag are you using?


PPM breakdown for a one (1) ml/gram. Per gallon.


The easiest way to reduce N, is to lower the cal-nit, and raise the base. Changing the NPK % ratio in the process.

 

[TintEastwood]

Megacrop 2-part is a virtual copy of Jacks 321. Masterblend is very similar to both. (base + calnit)


Kudos to Greenleaf for such a simple and easy to understand feeding chart!

shows the shift in PPM, which results in a shift in NPK % ratio. (lower ratio of N to PK)
This same technique can be applied to Masterblend - or other similar 2-parts.

 

[JCGreen81]

Yes, RO as the base water.

Hello,

Since you’re using RO water do make sure you’re accounting for calcium and magnesium as well. These are going to be very important MAJOR elements in your grow. With the use of reverse osmosis you’ll play god, so you’ll have a desired taste. I’d “PERSONALLY” only deploy organic means. But I guess I want more flavor.

Back to RO.... you need to play god. You need to take care of your General Hardness GH (yes more solids) these are minor and trace elements. And mind you they make up what dictates your alkalinity.

So yeah you need to make sure you know what you’re doing

 

[TintEastwood]

For my coco. This is an example of what I might be comfortable with, after stretch, into flower.
(I use RO - love the consistency.)

I had to look it up...
Potassium sulfate contains about 119 ppm of K per gram - per gallon! (and about 48 of sulfur)


....varies, but as a general rule...
2:1 K:Ca
2:1 Ca:Mg

 

[JCGreen81]

Mind the posters I have 400g I’d reverse and deionized water (real 0 TDS) My cannabis gets tap. I’m not going to feed my plants more than they need. I’m not trying to grow a kelio

 

[smtent]

I'm not sure I understand the question.
I have an external reservoir. I pump from it to fill the totes holding the plants. The pump runs for 2 minutes every 4 hours, when the pump shuts off it drains back to the reservoir by gravity.
Hope this answers your question.
WillieP

so I ask about circulation because I have had a similar experience where one set of plants was yellowing and the others were growing great guns the first 3 in my circuit were doing great and the last plant was just not getting enough nutrient. After looking at the plant growth rate closely I solved the problem by increasing the circulation rate. I dont really think that is your problem but it might be a factor.

 

[WillieP]

Ok.
Here's my first stab at breaking it down.

Note: this is using calimagic. What type of calmag are you using?
View attachment 4652812

PPM breakdown for a one (1) ml/gram. Per gallon.
View attachment 4652812

The easiest way to reduce N, is to lower the cal-nit, and raise the base. Changing the NPK % ratio in the process.

TE,
Thanks for breaking this down for me!
Ok, so you entered the 7-3.5-7 + the Cal/mag in to 7 gallons of water, and came up with 316 total PPM.
When I do that physically, I get over 700 PPM. This is confusing for the guy that knows crap about all of this stuff.
What's up with that? A different PPM scale? My meter is set to the 700 PPM scale.

So does this breakdown show a reasonable nutrient solution for the Veg phase of growing? The amount of each element that is needed is beyond me at the moment.

WillieP

PS. I'll have to look at my Cal/Mag when I get home.

 

[WillieP]

For my coco. This is an example of what I might be comfortable with, after stretch, into flower.
(I use RO - love the consistency.)

I had to look it up...
Potassium sulfate contains about 119 ppm of K per gram - per gallon! (and about 48 of sulfur)

View attachment 4652826
....varies, but as a general rule...
2:1 K:Ca
2:1 Ca:Mg

TE,
In this one you raised the Masterblend, lowered the Cal-Nit, raised the Epsom Salt and lowered the Cal/Mag.
The ratio of 2:1 of K:Ca and Ca:Mg makes more sense to me than anything so far.
This solution would be used after the stretch until harvest?

Is there a guideline for how much of each element is needed (or recommended) for the different stages of growth?

And lastly, (for now) where does one get the spreadsheet that you are using? I would like to play around with the numbers to see what gives you what, if you know what I mean?

So would you use any MKP or Pot/Sul as a PK booster? If so, how much and when? I have read to raise the P and K in the 3rd and 4th weeks after flip to 12/12. Any need for any of this sort of thing?

I really appreciate you spoon feeding this to me!

WillieP