Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
No its not perfect. No such thing as a perfect country.
Nice to see you have run out of points in your argument though. Ill have a great night thank you. You have an awesome day.
Why is Voting by mail such a issue now ?
- Thread starter Bear420
- Start date
Nice to see you have run out of points in your argument though. Ill have a great night thank you. You have an awesome day.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Its night not day. Who cannot follow the convo?
Have you read the thread title?
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
I hope so. But I didn't think that Americans were silly enough to elect him the first time. It wouldn't surprise me if they did again. Sad to say it.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
People who don't care to vote don't care to learn the issues. Why force uneducated people to vote? Enough do that already.
How about instead we make it easier to vote? How about if we ban laws intended to suppress votes?
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
Those same people will still likely not vote, or vote and hand in a blank ballot paper.
Because as difficult as it is to admit, uneducated people deserve their right to vote too and also need to be heard.
While I do support compulsory voting the $50 fine is a bit petty, it has to be. Because if it were any more expensive it'd be outrageous.
It also protects a county's own people and vote from instances of voter fraud, by campaigning parties or government.
One example would be if a government was choosing to deliberately make it more difficult for certain minoritys to vote. They could place additional ballot boxes in areas they were confident in winning and remove them from areas they weren't. Forcing people to absentee vote, or travel km's away to vote in person.
A petty fine in my opinion is a simple prevention to stop this from happening.
Sad to say, i truly feel people would have more inclination to just not bother voting in situations like above, if they weren't going to get simultaneously fined as well.
Last edited:
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I understand. We have several initiatives by Republicans that compulsory voting would not change. Making it hard to register is one. Another are laws that strip the right to vote from people convicted of felonies. If you haven't seen it all before, It would be difficult to imagine the lengths that Republicans will go in order to win with a minority of the vote.
Voting is a right, not a requirement in the US. I'm OK with that. What I would rather we focus on is breaking down barriers for US citizens excising their
If you obtain a valid drivers license or an official ID issued by Dept. of Motor Vehicles in Oregon, you are automatically registered to vote. You have to opt out in order to not be registered. Once registered to vote, the voter will receive a ballot. By Oregon's laws, the state mails a ballot to every person who is registered to vote. Ballots are mailed two weeks before the election. Votes are cast by filling out the ballot at home and either dropping it into the mail or at one of the many drop boxes stationed around town -- at banks, grocery stores, court houses, lots of places. Between 80% and 85% of all eligible voters return their ballots on Presidential election years. I don't understand why that last 15%-20% who don't want to vote should be compelled to do so. It's so easy, a Republican can do it.
Last edited:
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Its a citizen's right to vote not a privilege. Well i suppose having the right to vote is a privilege lots of countries citizens don't get.
80-85% seems like a large % by American standards. great to see. It also must get around the 'freedom" thing that was brought up earlier. Seems like a good system. Shame its not in all states. I always forget that things like this are state run and not federally run over there, as here voting is federally controlled.
There's a saying here. If you don't vote you have no right to talk politics.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
We don't trust our federal government enough to run the elections so there is no standard, just each state deciding, and the modern Democratic party is really not caught up to the Republicans (Rich white guys) in a lot of states so it is better in some states worse in others.
But it is generally getting better understood by the entire population what it means to have representation that understand all the needs of our entire population, and that gives me hope.
Russia and the Republicans just weaponized stupid trolling so well it caught our democracy off guard.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
I just did a quick google to see what our electoral turnouts % wise are and :
"Turnout at the 2016 House of Representatives (HoR) elections (91.0 per cent) was the lowest recorded since the introduction of compulsory voting ahead of the 1925 federal election. Turnout at the 2016 Senate elections (91.9 per cent) was the lowest recorded since the 1925 federal election"
-https://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/research/files/voter-turnout-2016.pdf
So 91-91.9% is the lowest its been since 1925. So Compulsory voting does work. Sure a few % would be Donkey votes or informal votes.
"Turnout at the 2016 House of Representatives (HoR) elections (91.0 per cent) was the lowest recorded since the introduction of compulsory voting ahead of the 1925 federal election. Turnout at the 2016 Senate elections (91.9 per cent) was the lowest recorded since the 1925 federal election"
-https://www.aec.gov.au/About_AEC/research/files/voter-turnout-2016.pdf
So 91-91.9% is the lowest its been since 1925. So Compulsory voting does work. Sure a few % would be Donkey votes or informal votes.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Oregon's turnout is something like 7% less than Australia's and we don't have to fine people if they don't vote. I just don't think its worth it. Almost everybody in the US votes if they can. I'm more about finding out why people don't vote and removing obstacles to enable voters to vote.
But I think we have a small difference here and don't really care what Australia or wherever you live do.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Just like to point out the fine is arbitrary. Ive not voted about 3 times in my life (im 50). Have recieved a fine in the mail and they ask the reason you didn't vote. As long as you reply with anything, I think anything at all. Then the fine is not enforced. Ive never paid one. Im sure other people just pay it and move on but its not about the fine its about the responsibility.
Compulsory voting all all about making voting easier. No way a govt is going to make it hard for people to vote when 90% of the countries population has to vote.
But yes, two slightly different opinions on the same topic we agree on. Voting should be easy and people should be encouraged to vote. But you should care what other countries do. Its where ideas and examples come from.
Turnout is pretty low in America as a whole:
What was the 2016 election turnout?
Turnout statistics
| Election | Voting Age Population (VAP) | % Turnout of VAP |
|---|---|---|
| 2004 | 219,553,000 | 55.7% |
| 2008 | 229,945,000 | 58.2% |
| 2012 | 235,248,000 | 54.9% |
| 2016 | 250,056,000 | 55.7% |
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
"Dodgy" DeJoy Testifies to the Senate: His "Credibility" Reminiscent of Manafort, Pompeo & Bannon
Trump and Mnuchin's handpicked Postmaster General, Louis DeJoy testified before the Senate about the dramatic slowing of mail service under his "leadership." Watch his evasive answers and see if his performance reminds you of these other infamous clips of Paul Manafort and Mike Pompeo. These Trump birds of a feather flock together . . . and what a flock they are.
Trump and Mnuchin's handpicked Postmaster General, Louis DeJoy testified before the Senate about the dramatic slowing of mail service under his "leadership." Watch his evasive answers and see if his performance reminds you of these other infamous clips of Paul Manafort and Mike Pompeo. These Trump birds of a feather flock together . . . and what a flock they are.
doublejj
Well-Known Member
lock them up
Exactly. He's not trying to win the election by hampering mail voting, he's trying to blow it up! He wants to delegitimatize the election so he can delay or contest it and stay in power.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
I still believe that it is more likely that this is just a elaborate Trump troll on the Democrats to get them to chase their tails and waste time.
"Saving billions of dollars in overtime" -Reason to keep postal workers from being able to have overtime.
Fact: That 'billions of dollars' is American citizens wages, that is not 'saving Americans tax payers billions' that is costing American tax payers billions of dollars out of their paychecks.
I think it is important to think about the importance of having a quasi-government institution with the ability to reach every Americans home in the case of an emergency. Especially when you consider a scenerio where we need the ability to get to every home everyday due to power grid failures or whatever other reason/disaster that we might not want some future Trump to have anything at all to do with.
Obama not getting his postal appointments in is the reason why this is even a problem today. It allowed McConnell to push through all 5 of Trump's minions to vote this rich buddy of his into a position to use it as a political weapon.
"Saving billions of dollars in overtime" -Reason to keep postal workers from being able to have overtime.
Fact: That 'billions of dollars' is American citizens wages, that is not 'saving Americans tax payers billions' that is costing American tax payers billions of dollars out of their paychecks.
I think it is important to think about the importance of having a quasi-government institution with the ability to reach every Americans home in the case of an emergency. Especially when you consider a scenerio where we need the ability to get to every home everyday due to power grid failures or whatever other reason/disaster that we might not want some future Trump to have anything at all to do with.
Obama not getting his postal appointments in is the reason why this is even a problem today. It allowed McConnell to push through all 5 of Trump's minions to vote this rich buddy of his into a position to use it as a political weapon.
i see a pattern emerging for obama..no supremes; no postal appointments; how mcconnell gets away with this, i'll never know..and the Dems? where the fvck are they in this..really?
'they won't let us..' is no longer acceptable.