Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
Hydroponics 101
Take 1 pot
Fill with coco coir
Water with nutrient solution
Watch grow
Take 1 pot
Fill with coco coir
Water with nutrient solution
Watch grow
If you were teaching a new grower...
- Thread starter Yumi241
- Start date
JimmiP
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying you can't do wonderfully with hydro. But it is way more simple to have a good organic soil and for the most part have to do nothing other than water when it is needed. These were fed nothing but water and some honey until they were in flower. Then just big bloom, epsom salt, silica and honey every other watering
No Ph'ing, just tap water. That's pretty easy.
Prawn Connery
Well-Known Member
OK, I'm just going to have a little laugh to myself 
You have some nice plants, but you're not going to convince me that soil is easier than basic hydro
Adjusting your pH is like brushing your teeth – only easier.
Step 1
Test pH
Step 2
Add a few drops of pH Down/Up. Or not. (Some hydro nutrients don't need pHing).
In fact, you only need to set your pH once when you mix your nutrient. After that, you can let it naturally rise to facilitate a wider range of nutrient availability.
As for Soil vs Hydro . . .
Soil
* water
* big bloom
* epsom salt
* silica
* honey
Vs
Coco
* water
* Two part nutrient
* silica
* pH Down (when needed)
I see you grow vertically – as did I for many years until I switched to LED – so I'm glad we have an apples to apples comparison. And of course, this is not aimed at you personally, as I'm simply trying to dispel the myth that soil is easier than hydro. (I wasn't laughing at you, just the notion that pH is some sort of "voodoo", when really it's as easy as pissing in a pot.)
The bottom line is, even if you find a good soil to work with, you never really know what's in it, and there are few soils that can take you all the way from veg to bloom without any additives, such as lime (calcium and magnesium) or potash (PK boost). That's why you often see soil plants fade during flower due to salt build-up, nutrient imbalance or deficiency – something that's easy to avoid in hydro.
Soil is also slow and finicky when it comes to watering – especially in big pots – as it takes a long time to address nutrient imbalances because you can't just dump your nutrient mix or flush all the nutrient out to fix a problem.
You can grow organically in hydro, as I do (using organic based nutrients instead of straight mineral salts), and if you also use an organic medium – such as coco – you get a slow release of potassium right when you need it, during flower. Then you can either reuse your coco for the next grow or compost it to your garden.
With deep water or shallow water culture, you simply dump your old nutrient into your garden. If you have problems, you start with a fresh mix – and you can do that as many times as you like.
Each to their own, but let's not pretend that hydro is complicated when it's not. It can be as easy as hand-watering a coco pot, or as complicated as a climate-controlled aeroponic system – with various levels of complexity in-between.
Again, this is not aimed at you – as you clearly have experience – but I find those who say hydro is complicated are usually those who have never tried it. Or have overcomplicated it themselves.
You have some nice plants, but you're not going to convince me that soil is easier than basic hydro
Adjusting your pH is like brushing your teeth – only easier.
Step 1
Test pH
Step 2
Add a few drops of pH Down/Up. Or not. (Some hydro nutrients don't need pHing).
In fact, you only need to set your pH once when you mix your nutrient. After that, you can let it naturally rise to facilitate a wider range of nutrient availability.
As for Soil vs Hydro . . .
Soil
* water
* big bloom
* epsom salt
* silica
* honey
Vs
Coco
* water
* Two part nutrient
* silica
* pH Down (when needed)
I see you grow vertically – as did I for many years until I switched to LED – so I'm glad we have an apples to apples comparison. And of course, this is not aimed at you personally, as I'm simply trying to dispel the myth that soil is easier than hydro. (I wasn't laughing at you, just the notion that pH is some sort of "voodoo", when really it's as easy as pissing in a pot.)
The bottom line is, even if you find a good soil to work with, you never really know what's in it, and there are few soils that can take you all the way from veg to bloom without any additives, such as lime (calcium and magnesium) or potash (PK boost). That's why you often see soil plants fade during flower due to salt build-up, nutrient imbalance or deficiency – something that's easy to avoid in hydro.
Soil is also slow and finicky when it comes to watering – especially in big pots – as it takes a long time to address nutrient imbalances because you can't just dump your nutrient mix or flush all the nutrient out to fix a problem.
You can grow organically in hydro, as I do (using organic based nutrients instead of straight mineral salts), and if you also use an organic medium – such as coco – you get a slow release of potassium right when you need it, during flower. Then you can either reuse your coco for the next grow or compost it to your garden.
With deep water or shallow water culture, you simply dump your old nutrient into your garden. If you have problems, you start with a fresh mix – and you can do that as many times as you like.
Each to their own, but let's not pretend that hydro is complicated when it's not. It can be as easy as hand-watering a coco pot, or as complicated as a climate-controlled aeroponic system – with various levels of complexity in-between.
Again, this is not aimed at you – as you clearly have experience – but I find those who say hydro is complicated are usually those who have never tried it. Or have overcomplicated it themselves.
JimmiP
Well-Known Member
I dont think it's aimed at me my friend,,, (nice vert stuff, yourself 
). And like I said, I have done hydro, and I had outstanding results. RDwc and eb and flo. And it was cool. And I do kinda dig what some cats do with coco. But as I recall, the title of this thread was, "If you were teaching a new grower...". And that is the subject I was speaking toward. I just believe as much as new people worry about silly things and make (strange) mistakes, soil gives them a better buffer for success. For that matter, we could say, screw the pot all together. If a new cat just puts a plant in some good ground and makes sure it has enough water, they will more than likely make it to the finish line. After they watch the entire life cycle of the plant and learn its tells, they could and probably should move on to other methods. It can be lots of fun. And heck, that person might discover something really cool along that journey. It could be a game changer for all of us ,,,and that is always cool....
But I believe (and you don't have to) that learning about growing (anything) should start in soil. Thats where plants naturally grow. People do tend to over complicate basically everything. Especially first time growers. Even more so, (it seems to me), those who decide to go hydro their first time. That is why we have a bunch of people constantly asking if their plant is going to die.
I have literally gone to someone's property, found decent soil (with good sun) and said, "just put it there. And if it hasn't rained in a week water water it". They got,,, "about a pound "lol.. seriously though that's what they got.
So back to addressing the original question. I would tell them what I initially said. And the reasons remain the same. And beyond that, it is where and how most people begin growing. After they get it a little, they can move on to other methods and settle on one or keep changing it up for fun. Your experience and talent seems to back up my position too. As you said, "The first time I switched from soil to hydro, it was truly a revelation". And I'm sure it was. I felt the same way for a while when I did my first indoor dwc. But eventually I went back to my roots, in the dirt. Which I believe is where people (if they can) should start. But by all means, everyone, grow however, wherever you can!
And good luck doing it!
). And like I said, I have done hydro, and I had outstanding results. RDwc and eb and flo. And it was cool. And I do kinda dig what some cats do with coco. But as I recall, the title of this thread was, "If you were teaching a new grower...". And that is the subject I was speaking toward. I just believe as much as new people worry about silly things and make (strange) mistakes, soil gives them a better buffer for success. For that matter, we could say, screw the pot all together. If a new cat just puts a plant in some good ground and makes sure it has enough water, they will more than likely make it to the finish line. After they watch the entire life cycle of the plant and learn its tells, they could and probably should move on to other methods. It can be lots of fun. And heck, that person might discover something really cool along that journey. It could be a game changer for all of us ,,,and that is always cool....But I believe (and you don't have to) that learning about growing (anything) should start in soil. Thats where plants naturally grow. People do tend to over complicate basically everything. Especially first time growers. Even more so, (it seems to me), those who decide to go hydro their first time. That is why we have a bunch of people constantly asking if their plant is going to die.
I have literally gone to someone's property, found decent soil (with good sun) and said, "just put it there. And if it hasn't rained in a week water water it". They got,,, "about a pound "lol.. seriously though that's what they got.
So back to addressing the original question. I would tell them what I initially said. And the reasons remain the same. And beyond that, it is where and how most people begin growing. After they get it a little, they can move on to other methods and settle on one or keep changing it up for fun. Your experience and talent seems to back up my position too. As you said, "The first time I switched from soil to hydro, it was truly a revelation". And I'm sure it was. I felt the same way for a while when I did my first indoor dwc. But eventually I went back to my roots, in the dirt. Which I believe is where people (if they can) should start. But by all means, everyone, grow however, wherever you can!
And good luck doing it!
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
Having played with wet sets, hydro, aero, wicking and flow for years. I am convinced that soil is easier. Hydro guys forget cleaning of lines, filters, tanks pumps, stones, tables and the timers and constant glitches in electric components and valving flow rates. I make soil. water until flower. Mix correct PPM of "1" part water soluble and feed. No ph needed. Add a Tsp of molasses every third feeding in flower. How is that more difficult? And my soil grows are denser and no chemical after taste. Organics are the preferred method here.
JimmiP
Well-Known Member
Darn tootin'! Lol
JimmiP
Well-Known Member
And let's not forget, power outages........ heck those can be scary. No electricity, no bubbles, no oxygen . Eeeaaak! I've had that happen.
JimmiP
Well-Known Member
Thank God for battery powered minnow bucket bublers!
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
I got 6 lead acid back up power supplies from back in the day. Good riddance to all the complications and emergencies.
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
They came out long after I went to soil. Great for fishing though.
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
Frosty. Grow how ever works for you. Just my opinion. Old, broken and finally accepting I need to simplify things in life. And it is simple now. Honest best to all. Just wish I could get more people on board the green bus.
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
JimmiP
Well-Known Member
MICHI-CAN, it seems maybe, you are the only person I've seen spend enough time with your plants to have assimilated their color. What the heck?
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
That's my wife. LOL. She said I would have two green thumbs if they weren't stained brown from picking my butt. And she is green with envy. My girls get more attention than her.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
I personally grow in coco with a drip system on a timer under LED lights, but I can totally appreciate suggesting a 315cmh in a 3x3 soil grow for noobs. The reality is there is less setup and less investment, and it's easy enough to switch over to hydro in future runs. It's kind of nice having something really basic for your first grow to compare to later once the grow gets a bit more complex. I've never had to add any epsom salts, silica, or honey to my nute mix in soil grows; a decent one-part will work fine.
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
Actual science from the university of Ohio has proven epsoms salt to be virtually useless in soil. Only effective as a foliar spray. Just adding salts to your soil. Asking for problems.
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
Article does not say good or bad. I'll look for the paper I read. Better written and detailed explanations. TY.Miracle, myth or marketing? Epsom Salts: Washington State University
Linda Chalker-Scott | Washington State University
Horticultural Myths Looking for the newest myth-information? Check out our blog The Garden Professors. You’ll find science-based information from four horticultural professors from around the country. Fertilizers The Myth of Beneficial Bone Meal (pdf) The Myth of Vitamin Shots (pdf) The Myth of...puyallup.wsu.edu
e function actived...faster mode
paz
Saludos
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
OOPs. Google gave me a different article the first time. Reading this now. Same article. Just the previous page.
getogrow
Well-Known Member
I 1000000% agree with this whole heartly!