Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
OK so how much does it cost the avg 40 year old for full health insurance? That covers everything.
Do Americans actually want universal healthcare?
- Thread starter VILEPLUME
- Start date
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
$35k for cancer medications?
CannaOnerStar
Well-Known Member
Where i live, the problems with universal healthcare are mostly because of right wingers trying to take off as much money from it as possible and trying to get as much private sector(likely some of their business friends) involved in it as possible and doing it in very stupid ways that is not meant to help, but to fuck up the public system to be more and more dependant on the private sector.Okay well, I live in a country that has somewhat free health care. I work with sick people who need that care(cancer). I have also been sick and have witnessed others who are not terminally ill navigate this system and I have also been paying the taxes imposed by this country for quite some time. I would say its a double edged sword to say the least. Unless you have cancer or some other form of deadly disease, the health care here sucks. The wait times, the lack of quality, the inconsistencies in care and effort in diagnosis, they all fucking suck. Now pay our taxes. It wouldn't be the same in every country I am sure, but here, there are some glaring negatives for anyone who isnt dealing with cancer etc.
Now would I CHOOSE to have to pay for my care? If i had a problem that wasnt easy to diagnose, then yes. I would rather pay and not wait for 6 months to get a MRI or see a specialist for then somewhat low quality care. People die here waiting quite often. But if I had cancer or something else that was diagnosed quickly, I would 100% choose our system. Most people i work with pay almost nothing for their cancer treatment. We are talking bone scans, imaging, chemo, radiation, blood work, consultations, anti nausea medicine etc. My mother has also went through stage 3 breast cancer here and survived. Her bill was for a bra, a bottle of Tylenol, and a arm sock. Everything else was free. I am sure her bill would have been over $250,000 if she lived in some other shitholes.
Be careful what you wish for on legalization. I am pro ending prohibition, fully and with every drug. But if they do it like canada did, I veiw it as a negative. Its fucking horseshit here. I would rather it go back to the way it was before. Try and become a LP or a micro producer if you disagree. Have fun paying 50-80 bucks a 1/8. Yea for "good" weed here in the store some people are paying $80 for 3.5. By the way its not very good plus all of the pioneers of the movment got fucked and crushed under the systems rules. "Lotteries" for shop licenses, rules about past cannabis convictions etc etc. All put in place so the powerful get more powerful and the culture is crushed and raped into being a joke. Go into almost every weed store in canada, i have been in over 100 of them(side job) and they all look the same. Its like someone universally decided to make them all look like James bonds weapon room. Culture, gone. Then for them to hire uninformed, know nothing know it alls and then rename everything from say "OG Kush" into "reflect". Strawberry cough is now "gophers tail" plus its not actually Strawberry coughLike looking at your weed before buying it? Naw. You pay me $60 and I give you 3.5g of trash C grade side bud thats not cured right. No returns. Welcome to legalization.
Sorry for the side rant there :/
Personally i think the best solution would be that government offers quality basic healthcare and healthcare for more common issues, but would buy special healthcare from the private sector. And also do what they now also do and buy services from private sector(that you get, but dont pay for anything extra than public side) if there is an urgent matter and too much line on the public side.
Also for anyone who were fed stupid lies. No a free public healthcare does not mean that you could not go to a expensive private hospital or get some extra nice insurances.. It just means that you dont have to get any insurances if you want healthcare, because everyones healthcare is automatically covered from the time your mommy got pregnant till you die.
CannaOnerStar
Well-Known Member
Hah, as if the democrats could had never done anything about this problem.. The problem is that the system is ran by private companies that want to make as much profit as possible and the politicians are given money(lobbying) by these companies running the show, which are owned by their friends. Then the drug companies do the same.
The end result is that the politicians want to keep the private thing going on and get rid of other politicians who could change it, while telling lies to people about it, so that they would not want it.
Do you see Biden or Kamala talking about this? Hmm they are talking about something relating to this.. keeping the private sector involved and going for the insurance scam again, but doing it slightly differently, so that they can keep the investors happy and people would shut up for a moment. What ever shit biden does is most likely only supposed to be temporary like obamacare and partly to "prove" that a single payer model doesent work in USA(even tho it miraculously works elsewhere quite well and USA could have #1 world resources put into it).
The scam is that when the government pays the bill, those companies can charge insane amounts from medical services and drugs and then much of the tax dollars are going to the middle man, who paid the politicians.
You see its nice business to give a million or a few to a politician or political party who then makes shit happen that will make you billions of profit.
dandyrandy
Well-Known Member
United healthcare scored record profits. In a pandemic, as did others.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Covers everything? No, we've just scratched the surface.
"How much does loss of freedom of choice" cost ?
If people are allowed to buy insurance from private providers are they exempt from paying for government insurance directly or indirectly to cover other people ?
If people are allowed to buy private health insurance, what is the added cost baked into those prices from licensure and regulation ? If companies have added costs in the billions (they do) due to government interferences do they eat that cost or do they pass it on to consumers ?
Which other government interferences add costs that are not generally considered ? What are the lost opportunity costs when government inserts it's dick into the pie and prevents other possibilities ?
When people say "free healthcare" is it really free?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Government "offers" . That's funny. Stop being so silly, government owes it's existence to offers which cannot be refused without violent consequences. Using the terms "offer" and "government" in combination as you have is oxymoronic.
Government in both the macro and the micro isn't and can never be an actual service provider, since it's existence isn't based in choice, it is based in the removal of choice.
An actual free market isn't governed by government. It is governed by the interrelationships between actual service providers and willing customers. That's why they call it a free market, it includes the freedom to say no or seek other alternatives.
If politicians are involved it isn't private, it is government caused and/or influenced.
Please learn what an actual free market is and isn't and don't conflate a free market with crony capitalism.
CannaOnerStar
Well-Known Member
You just dont know shit what happens outside of america and are a fool lol
dandyrandy
Well-Known Member
Rob sez
Reality of health care living in a country with universal health care.
Choice: I can choose to go to any doctor or dentist that uses the national health care. There are some who do not, but they are stranglers from a time gone by and their training is so outdated that nobody wants to go to them. Would you rather go to a doctor who was trained within the last 10 years at the best universities in the world...or some old fart with training from 40 years ago? The care is much better at hospitals that are within the national health plan. When I had to get my ACL repaired not only did I have it done for free, I had it done by the leading surgeon in the world who had a new version of the operation that is way way way out of the price range of most Americans and is only performed on top athletes I am told in America. The reasoning being that American insurance companies have deemed it too expensive with longer recovery time. And I can understand why recovery time is a big thing in America. In America they discharge people the day after operations. In Japan they take care of you till you are better. hospital stays are much longer and you are cared for much better. So from what I have seen in America, Americans have far fewer choices than we have in Japan. The choice I see Americans making the most is to not go to the hospital because they can't afford it.
Quality of care: There was a time when our rich would travel to America to get treatment because they were lightyears ahead of us in techniques. Well thanks to America all of our best doctors have been trained in America and in many cases have surpassed America. The care you find overseas now is on par with America and in many cases much much better. If you want prove go google infant mortality and see where America is on the list. That is a disgrace for a country that considers itself number 1. And the truth is, even if the care was not as good as America, more care and quicker care will always be better than no care. People in my country never think about the cost associated with a visit and when they feel sick they go. Blows my mind that Americans actually have to think about going or not based on their coverage and or financial situation.
Price: Again this is something that blows my mind about America. They believe that they are supporting advancements in science by being racked over the coals. Our prices are so much cheaper and yet the doctors and big Pharma are still making a profit...just not the evil profits that they make in America. A typical doctors visit with meds is around $15 and a dentist with a cavity is like $25. How does a CEO of big Pharma making 10s of millions of dollars a year in salary supposed rot advance science again?
So instead of throwing out all this nonsense about your fears over universal health care, try asking people who already have it. Much easier and smarter.
Choice: I can choose to go to any doctor or dentist that uses the national health care. There are some who do not, but they are stranglers from a time gone by and their training is so outdated that nobody wants to go to them. Would you rather go to a doctor who was trained within the last 10 years at the best universities in the world...or some old fart with training from 40 years ago? The care is much better at hospitals that are within the national health plan. When I had to get my ACL repaired not only did I have it done for free, I had it done by the leading surgeon in the world who had a new version of the operation that is way way way out of the price range of most Americans and is only performed on top athletes I am told in America. The reasoning being that American insurance companies have deemed it too expensive with longer recovery time. And I can understand why recovery time is a big thing in America. In America they discharge people the day after operations. In Japan they take care of you till you are better. hospital stays are much longer and you are cared for much better. So from what I have seen in America, Americans have far fewer choices than we have in Japan. The choice I see Americans making the most is to not go to the hospital because they can't afford it.
Quality of care: There was a time when our rich would travel to America to get treatment because they were lightyears ahead of us in techniques. Well thanks to America all of our best doctors have been trained in America and in many cases have surpassed America. The care you find overseas now is on par with America and in many cases much much better. If you want prove go google infant mortality and see where America is on the list. That is a disgrace for a country that considers itself number 1. And the truth is, even if the care was not as good as America, more care and quicker care will always be better than no care. People in my country never think about the cost associated with a visit and when they feel sick they go. Blows my mind that Americans actually have to think about going or not based on their coverage and or financial situation.
Price: Again this is something that blows my mind about America. They believe that they are supporting advancements in science by being racked over the coals. Our prices are so much cheaper and yet the doctors and big Pharma are still making a profit...just not the evil profits that they make in America. A typical doctors visit with meds is around $15 and a dentist with a cavity is like $25. How does a CEO of big Pharma making 10s of millions of dollars a year in salary supposed rot advance science again?
So instead of throwing out all this nonsense about your fears over universal health care, try asking people who already have it. Much easier and smarter.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Its very hard to have an adult discussion with you at times- this is one of them.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
ask his wife, she's the one paying all the bills in that household
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Okay, adult then.
Would you agree that "adult" behavior would use logic, peaceful means and consistent principles which respect others rights as a good basis for cooperative endeavors?
Would you agree that using or threatening force to make other peaceful human beings choices for them, which is exactly what forced government programs do, is an act borne of infantile and child like behavior? That only pointing at a desired outcome without considering the means is again, a habit of children, not adults ?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
If I agreed with you though we'd both be wrong.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
having an adult conversation is answering Questions before asking your questions to the other party. Trying to keep it focused and on topic is also helpful.
CannaOnerStar
Well-Known Member
- No it cant be!
-Yes it can look here and here
- No it cant!!
- Yes yes look here and there
- No, it cant it wont
- Yes yes yes
- Noooo bohoo bohoo
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
go away foreigner
CannaOnerStar
Well-Known Member
No u go away foreigner!
I have a hard time pin pointing what I have seen in America but there really does seem to be a feeling of disgust when it comes to helping their fellow man. I have had many conversations with Americans about health care and what I hear more than anything is something along the lines of, "Well I am proud to take care of myself and I don't think we should take care of lazy people." That is what it really comes down to. I have tried to point out that America has more than enough money to take care of everybody and that our failed medical system actually costs us more. Tried to explain that by not taking care of the sick person the cheap way they end up going to emergency care and costing the tax payers 10X. Doesn't work, you will never get past the "They are lazy why should I take care of them." Doesn't matter that we have billion dollar weapon systems that don't work etc, it's all about their disgust with their lazy neighbors.
I would also like to point out one of the reasons that Americans are so freaking sick. Church of the capitalists have decided that feeding them cheap sugar cane and making mad profits is more important than eating healthily. Look at their outrage at what happened over a garden at the White House, lol. When people are doing things that are 100% against their best interests I call them meat puppets because capitalism is making them sound like Elmo.
I would also like to point out one of the reasons that Americans are so freaking sick. Church of the capitalists have decided that feeding them cheap sugar cane and making mad profits is more important than eating healthily. Look at their outrage at what happened over a garden at the White House, lol. When people are doing things that are 100% against their best interests I call them meat puppets because capitalism is making them sound like Elmo.