1st Time Grower Seeking Info on Breeding

[Monsoon14]

So im a legal grower on my first batch. My plants are still young but I also have way more than I will be able to handle, given my growing area. My main question is this: Can I leave some of the plants in their solo cups for their entire lives exclusively to breed and get seeds from for future crops? I plan on having 4 or 5 grow plants given my area but i wpuldnt mind turning another 2 or 3 into breeders. Is this feasible or will i need to transplant them and maintain them as if they were a plant i wanted to fully bring to budding and harvest?

Thank you for looking at this noobs question and i appreciate any help!

 

[Kalebaiden]

Check out the advance growing section.

You have to be careful if you want selective breeding in a common area.

 

[Monsoon14]

Check out the advance growing section.

You have to be careful if you want selective breeding in a common area.

I will do that but i do not plan on them sharing a common area. I am cool with letting my seed plants chill by themselves in my basement with a light and occasional watering. My grow box is elsewhere.

 

[ilovereggae]

No it won't work to just keep them off to the side in little cups with inadequate lighting.

Breeding is a time intensive process. Requires plenty of space and is a advanced step in your learning (at least doing selective breeding like @Kalebaiden mentioned) that requires a lot of planning. Otherwise you are going to get very unpredictable results. You might get lucky but more than likely will be a waste of time and resources this early in your growing journey.

Focus on just growing the best plants you can for now seed to harvest. Once you have a few grows under your belt it will be an easier task to take on. In the meantime read everything you can find.

 

[Monsoon14]

Hay i appreciate the realness. If it'd be mostly spinning my wheels I will definitely look elsewhere for seeds in the future.

 

[xtsho]

You can keep small plants and use them to chuck pollen and make seeds. Many of today's so called breeders are just chucking pollen. They don't go through hundreds or thousands of plants. Their goal is to make and sell seeds. Actual breeding isn't what they're doing. I say go for it. You'll likely end up with stuff as good as what some are paying $20 a seed for.

And if you're interested in making feminized seeds there is plenty of information regarding that process over in the Advanced section. The plus side to making your own seeds is that you'll never have to pay for seeds again. People paying $20+ for pollen chucked F1 seeds is ridiculous.

Good luck

 

[go go kid]

ok whos going to explain f1 hybrids and breeding seeds from plants that hsvent had there traits locked down and breeding true. let alone the differant plants that were crossed to come up wiith a strain in the first place popping up from seed making. let alone resessive traits non recessive traits etc etc etc sure you can coss two plants, but the cross you get wont be true well probably not

 

[go go kid]

plus you need to grow hundreds if not thousands of the seeds to find a perfect pheno or cross if your lucky

 

[ilovereggae]

Hay i appreciate the realness. If it'd be mostly spinning my wheels I will definitely look elsewhere for seeds in the future.

No prob. I would love to breed my own seeds as well and have some well thought out crosses I want to do. I just have learned to trust my old heads advice, and realized I dont have the time or space yet to do it.

You could look into keeping a mother plant and taking clones though! You can keep a Mom under less light than you use for normal veg, and then be able to perpetually harvest clones from her. This still takes a while to learn, but is a lot more realistic as far as initial steps to learn. You will also need to have mastered this technique if you really want to get into breeding. This is the first step required that would let you "pheno hunt" to find the genetics you would actually want to breed with

For instance I just popped a bunch of seeds from a pack. I grow them all together, in veg, numbering each one. Once I see signs of preflower and can determine sex, I get rid of the males. Then I take clones off each female, and then veg the clones. Once the clones are big enough, I flower the clones. This way I can compare the phenotypes using a few key points - ease of cloning, overall vigor and health, plant structure, and of course finished product. I might have to run them a couple rounds until I make my decision. Then once I have, I kill off the Moms that didn't make the cut, and now I have my "keeper". This continues to provide cuttings until I decide to flower or kill the mom. One of its clones takes its place and becomes the new Mom.

Once you have identified some keepers whose genetics you want to work with, you now have a basis for actually breeding that would be worth it.

You can keep small plants and use them to chuck pollen and make seeds. Many of today's so called breeders are just chucking pollen. They don't go through hundreds or thousands of plants. Their goal is to make and sell seeds. Actual breeding isn't what they're doing. I say go for it. You'll likely end up with stuff as good as what some are paying $20 a seed for.

And if you're interested in making feminized seeds there is plenty of information regarding that process over in the Advanced section. The plus side to making your own seeds is that you'll never have to pay for seeds again. People paying $20+ for pollen chucked F1 seeds is ridiculous.

Good luck

@xtsho I dont think this is a good idea (for a new grower at least) for all the points I just mentioned and that you just confirmed. Sure they might get lucky, but realistically what happens when you F1 two unstable F1 strains? Recessive traits many of which are undesirable are going to start popping up. I agree anyone paying $20 a bean for untested F1 chucks is not smart. But I can also buy 100 pack for $300 from BOG of some stable genetics that have been battle tested and are legitimately worked, so that I know what to expect when I grow them. I'm sure there other breeders like that too.

 

[ilovereggae]

plus you need to grow hundreds if not thousands of the seeds to find a perfect pheno or cross if your lucky

^^ what I just said, just in way less words lol. Thank you.

 

[Kalebaiden]

Apologies for the HPS lighting.

The plant on the left is more than likely a male and so are the two small ones on the bottom right.



That leaves me with one monster that will have 4 out of 40+ bud sites pollinated when I'm done.

What I have to do is let the breeding males start their flower development, chop off a few ball laden branches and take them to another room with zero air movement, put the branches in a vase(cup, container) with water and put the vase on a few sheets of aluminum foil. Set up a 12/12 light to keep the pollen sacks developing.

Collect the pollen after it drops, do some mixing with flour to extend the pollens shelf life and package it for the freezer. Then I need to clean everything up, dispose of the now useless male plant material, clean me (shower, change clothes) and clean everything again.

Then I need to clean me again (shower and change clothes).

These cleaning steps and repeated showers and clothes changes are so I don't accidentally pollinate my whole grow.

When I'm sure I'm pollen free, another shower and clothes change happens, I get a very fine paint brush, section off the buds I want to pollinate since I can't cut them off and very carefully and lightly paint on a tiny tiny amount of pollen. The goal is to use as little pollen as possible to minimize any fallout. A microscopic amount goes a very very long way.

Then I need to double use cloth breeding bags to contain the buds for a few weeks.

If everything goes well, I should have seed stock on the 4 branches I pollinated and the rest of the plant will be some nice sensimilla.

Manually breeding plants is very intensive work and I only feel comfortable doing it now after a decade of growing.

There's always the natural option;

Grow plants together (males and females) and have a fan do the work for you.

The entire grow space gets pollinated but you end up with 1000s of seeds.

 

[go go kid]

enlightening, im a clone guy too, you cant beat them

 

[Monsoon14]

Wow guys i really appreciate the info! I think I will probably just play it safe and go all fem for this crop. I am REALLY new to plant growing in general let alone MJ. I do not want to be that guy who accidentally pollenated his entire grow box

 

[xtsho]

The fact is that many of these strains from so called breeders are not stable. Why are people getting 6 or more pheno's from many of these stable strains?

Another fact is that many of these so called breeders today are not going through hundreds or thousands of plants. It's become a money grab and the faster you can make seeds the faster you can sell them which is the only thing many are concerned about. It's all about making money. Actual breeding is not the priority for many. Many just come up with a cool name for their brand, cross a couple strains, give the result a cool name, hype them up on online forums, and sell as much as they can.

Actual breeding is one thing but that's not what many are doing. Anyone can chuck pollen. I've been doing it for years and have some damn fine results. I have several people currently growing out some of what I've produced and they are all very happy and satisfied with the results.

There is zero regulation regarding the production of cannabis seeds with the exception of commercial hemp. Anyone can say anything they want and even flat out lie about the genetic lineage of their seeds.

I may sound cynical because I am. I have zero faith in the commercialized cannabis industry. It's full of hucksters, frauds, and flat out liars. From the overpriced cannabis nutrient industry to many of the so called breeders. Too much hype and false claims. The cost for one seed is ridiculous just as is people paying $20 for a bottle of diluted monopotassium phosphate in a fancy bottle with a shiny label and called Nitro Bloom or some other ridiculous name.

If you don't want to isolate a couple plants to make some seeds then don't but don't think that you can't do it and be successful at it.

Take a look at this thread. Lots of people making seeds that produce exceptional weed.

Chuckers paradise......

crosses you have made,or things you want to make..... I'll start with a few...of the things I work.. And mad respect,to the folks that have grown these.. Yoga flame (fire alien kush x plat.bubba/jo og) Candy grape og(Candydrop x stomper og) Antidote kush(rp's og x force og) Dessert breath...

www.rollitup.org

The best thing a new grower can do is not fall for all the cannabis specific hype or get caught up chasing some latest strain by a so called breeder that is really just chucking pollen for money.

I'm sure there will be those that don't agree with me and I don't care. I've been growing for decades and have nothing to prove to anyone and don't care what anyone thinks about my views.

 

[ilovereggae]

The fact is that many of these strains from so called breeders are not stable. Why are people getting 6 or more pheno's from many of these stable strains?

Another fact is that many of these so called breeders today are not going through hundreds or thousands of plants. It's become a money grab and the faster you can make seeds the faster you can sell them which is the only thing many are concerned about. It's all about making money. Actual breeding is not the priority for many. Many just come up with a cool name for their brand, cross a couple strains, give the result a cool name, hype them up on online forums, and sell as much as they can.

Actual breeding is one thing but that's not what many are doing. Anyone can chuck pollen. I've been doing it for years and have some damn fine results. I have several people currently growing out some of what I've produced and they are all very happy and satisfied with the results.

There is zero regulation regarding the production of cannabis seeds with the exception of commercial hemp. Anyone can say anything they want and even flat out lie about the genetic lineage of their seeds.

I may sound cynical because I am. I have zero faith in the commercialized cannabis industry. It's full of hucksters, frauds, and flat out liars. From the overpriced cannabis nutrient industry to many of the so called breeders. Too much hype and false claims. The cost for one seed is ridiculous just as is people paying $20 for a bottle of diluted monopotassium phosphate in a fancy bottle with a shiny label and called Nitro Bloom or some other ridiculous name.

If you don't want to isolate a couple plants to make some seeds then don't but don't think that you can't do it and be successful at it.

Take a look at this thread. Lots of people making seeds that produce exceptional weed.

Chuckers paradise......

crosses you have made,or things you want to make..... I'll start with a few...of the things I work.. And mad respect,to the folks that have grown these.. Yoga flame (fire alien kush x plat.bubba/jo og) Candy grape og(Candydrop x stomper og) Antidote kush(rp's og x force og) Dessert breath...

www.rollitup.org

The best thing a new grower can do is not fall for all the cannabis specific hype or get caught up chasing some latest strain by a so called breeder that is really just chucking pollen for money.

I'm sure there will be those that don't agree with me and I don't care. I've been growing for decades and have nothing to prove to anyone and don't care what anyone thinks about my views.

I agree with 99% of what you are saying. I was just disagreeing that its something a brand new grower should focus on when they havent even gotten to harvest yet on their first grow. I agree with 100% of everything else you said.

Some of the best genetics I have are crosses made by one of my best friends in their back yard. In fact the only genetics I have purchased is from BOG and that is only because he did take the time to hunt properly and stabilize his genetic pool and I wanted to have some in my vault for when I am ready to start my own breeding projects. I agree that the majority of the "breeders" out there are just really good at social media and marketing including most of the big names. I have watched another good friend pop hundreds of seeds at once hunting through the "hype" and have 80% of the crop herm bc they are unstable crap.

 

[xtsho]

I agree with 99% of what you are saying. I was just disagreeing that its something a brand new grower should focus on when they havent even gotten to harvest yet on their first grow. I agree with 100% of everything else you said.

Some of the best genetics I have are crosses made by one of my best friends in their back yard. In fact the only genetics I have purchased is from BOG and that is only because he did take the time to hunt properly and stabilize his genetic pool and I wanted to have some in my vault for when I am ready to start my own breeding projects. I agree that the majority of the "breeders" out there are just really good at social media and marketing including most of the big names. I have watched another good friend pop hundreds of seeds at once hunting through the "hype" and have 80% of the crop herm bc they are unstable crap.

Yeah, I think you're correct. It would be wise to get the basics of growing figured out first. I sometimes get ahead of myself because I am just so disillusioned and disgusted by what's happening in the cannabis industry. What looked like a promising start when legalization started has turned into a corporate takeover of the industry by large companies and every 2 bit conman has shown up to join the party as well.

 

[ilovereggae]

Yeah, I think you're correct. It would be wise to get the basics of growing figured out first. I sometimes get ahead of myself because I am just so disillusioned and disgusted by what's happening in the cannabis industry. What looked like a promising start when legalization started has turned into a corporate takeover of the industry by large companies and every 2 bit conman has shown up to join the party as well.

Trust me, I am right there with you. Talk about disillusioned. I have been in love with herb for 30 years. First started learning about growing 25 yrs ago. Fast fwd to 2014 and my son gets diagnosed w Crohns disease. Determine that RSO makes his pain more manageable. Move to Cali with a false dream that it is the medical cannabis promise land. Get here and realize the real ones are hard to find and most ppl out here are just hustling the herb for money. Watch as rec happens and the cash cropping commercialization goes full swing. Misinformation abounds. Medical strains take back seat to highest profit margins. VC backed corporate weed starts lobbying against personal/rec growing saying it fuels the black market. Gahhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I am 100% for promoting self sufficiency and self reliance. We all need to stock up on quality genetics to prevent the system from trying to control it and bottleneck the genetics based on what some corporate fuck or lying politician decides is best.

 

[Geneiac]

ok whos going to explain f1 hybrids and breeding seeds from plants that hsvent had there traits locked down and breeding true. let alone the differant plants that were crossed to come up wiith a strain in the first place popping up from seed making. let alone resessive traits non recessive traits etc etc etc sure you can coss two plants, but the cross you get wont be true well probably not

Pollen chuckers be damned, there seems to be a real genuine interest in breeding the right way in this thread so I'll throw a bit of my knowledge in the mix.

The real definition of an F1 hybrid is the offspring resulting from the cross between two genetically distant parents. Most people in this space use the term to describe the first generation of any cross what so ever but it really should be reserved for crosses between parents that are genetically distinct or distant from each other, and Pure Breeding think a Thai landrace x Colombian landrace. However as there have been and continue to be some genuine breeding efforts (albeit few and far between), inbred lines have been created allowing for crosses between two Pure breeding inbred lines which would create an F1 hybrid. The appeal of F1 hybrids is twofold. The populations of siblings from these crosses are highly homogenous due to the near complete homozygosity of their parents. If a parent has the same two alleles at every locus, it doesn't matter how they physically segregate into gametes because you'll always end up with gametes with the same sets of alleles. The second appeal is known as heterosis or hybrid vigor and describes the tendency of some F1 hybrids to outperform both parents in certain traits, yield for example. This phenomenon is still being studied but one of the prevailing hypotheses is that a trait like yield is influenced by numerous genes...lets say 50 for example. Now lets imagine that parent 1 has fixed or is homozygous for alleles that positively influences yield at 20 of these loci while parent 2 has fixed alleles that positively influence yield at the other 30 loci, so they both produce respectable yields, but when crossed the offspring now have all 50 alleles that increase yield! The reality of the situation is more complex however, because some loci may decrease yield so the F2 generation will segregate all the (+) and (-) loci leading to a lot of variation in the population.

Recessive traits are traits that require 2 copies of the recessive allele to cause an observable phenotype. A well known example would be the autoflowering allele. Both photoperiod and autoflowering plants have the locus that encodes the protein responsible for the autoflowering trait but due to how the protein interacts with the physiology of the plant, two copies of the autoflowering allele are required to cause the autoflowering phenotype. Most likely the autoflowering allele is a mutation that destroys the function of the protein it encodes but one copy of the normal WT gene produces enough protein to allow a plant to be photoperiod sensitive...I can't really go into more detail because I'm not sure of the molecular mechanisms that cause the autoflowering trait. Buuuuut from a breeding perspective recessive traits are interesting because if you cross a homozygous dominant individual (ie one that is photoperiod sensitive and has never been bred with an auto) with an homozygous recessive individual (auto) the offspring will all be photoperiod sensitive. However if the F1 generation is bred to produce an F2 generation, 25% of the offspring will be autos. That F1 cross is known as a monohybrid cross. Shout out Mendel.

Most crosses won't breed true because the parents are heterozygous at many loci (genomic locations), therefore each pollen grain or egg contain different combinations of those alleles. It really does help to think about these populations as siblings because thats truly what they are especially if the cross is from 1 male and one female (not multiple plants open pollinated). Therefore each plant is as unique as you and you're siblings if you have any...cut from the same cloth but very unique.

Inbreeding can create homozygous populations because 1/2 of all loci become fixed with each cross. Therefore by F7s sibs are 99.9% identical ie (1/2)^6 = 0.015 and 100-0.015 = 99.985.