meangreengrowinmachine
Well-Known Member
Same! LolFollowing... I am a 'didn't do shit' grower so curious.
Defoliate vs didnt do jack vs lollipop
- Thread starter Wizzlebiz
- Start date
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- Tags
- defoliation lollipop natural
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
This experiment would be better run with an indoor grow IMO. Outdoors every leaf is getting some sun all day long. With wind they are moving around so much no one gets stuck in the shade and the plants get light from a different angle ever minute as the sun moves across the sky.
More leaves = more captured photons = more food made = faster growth and bigger yields. On paper for sure but an experiment like this should show some differences.
This is my one outside girl. A 20:1 CBD strain that was supposed to be an auto but grew as a photo and didn't start flowering until a little over a month ago on Aug. 16 I figure for a date. We've already had frost twice as I'm way up in northern Alberta tho the days have been warm and sunny half the time. Very little rain but a bit of ash from way down south or maybe from the fires in Siberia. No fires up north here to speak of.
Anyway I have a big sheet covering the top and front tonight as there is a frost warning. Little heater in there too that keeps it around 50F when it gets cold but I've left her open in front down to 33F with no ill effects. Still 41F at 10pm so the heater is off. I have a remote temp/rh sensor hanging in the centre of the plant and it hit 81F in there today even with the wind.
I've never removed a healthy leaf from her yet and very few bad ones. She's just shy of 5ft tall and I'm hoping the cutting I took a month ago starts showing reveg growth soon but it's well rooted. She is growing in the ground using a mix of various mediums the bulk of which is ProMix HP. Only watered a few times all summer and recently given a good feed high in K to get them buds busting! 4 weeks to go I figure. This is an experiment for me.
My other experiment is inside.
I just flipped my two Monkey Banana Kush plants last Friday. Yesterday I found a thrip on one of the tiny lower leaves so lollipopped both of them and took a lot of the little sucker shoots off the remaining branches. Will make it a lot easier to hunt for any remaining thrips with all that little crap gone too.
The plant on the left has been fed nothing but Greenleaf nutrients. MegaCrop 1-part for the base nutes, Big Up - 0-52-34 for it's P/K boost and have Rock Steady - 0-0-62 for a K boost later.
The one on the right is eating AN nutes. 3-part for base nutes and Big Bud - 0-15-35 with 10%S 20 aminos and citric/ascorbic acids. Had a little Bud Factor X left over so am giving it a bit of that too.
Both as close to being identical clones from the same mother as I could select from 7 and get some things in common like the medium. Both in the same mix of ProMix HP with some added biochar, lobster/crab shell and the DynoMyco for beneficial fungi and bacteria. Each will get the Carbo to support the myco and also Epsom Salts plus a vit/supplement mix of my own with Zn, Se, Fe, Vit.B1, Ascorbic acid, (Vit.C) and some citric acid. Equal amounts of all that stuff to keep the experiment on the level. So far the AN plant has done a bit better and got a bit bigger but the proof is in the final product and yield.
I consider this well lollipopped. Just did it yesterday. They are under a 600W Hortilux Super HPS and already stretching. Kept those long branches on the far right as I want to spray them with STS to get some fem pollen for making fem seeds.
Trimming out the lower stuff is a good idea tho. Most of the time I've just left it and end up with too much little popcorn to fuss with but not this time. I don't defoliate at all either. One big fan leaf can make more food for the plant than the tiny bud leaves on a dozen lower buds. Any lower buds will grow fine with shade over them but they will need light to ripen up. To that end I crop in stages by taking the big colas off and removing any upper fan leaves then letting the lower, smaller colas green up good and the trichomes get at least 50% milky before taking them off.
More leaves = more captured photons = more food made = faster growth and bigger yields. On paper for sure but an experiment like this should show some differences.
This is my one outside girl. A 20:1 CBD strain that was supposed to be an auto but grew as a photo and didn't start flowering until a little over a month ago on Aug. 16 I figure for a date. We've already had frost twice as I'm way up in northern Alberta tho the days have been warm and sunny half the time. Very little rain but a bit of ash from way down south or maybe from the fires in Siberia. No fires up north here to speak of.
Anyway I have a big sheet covering the top and front tonight as there is a frost warning. Little heater in there too that keeps it around 50F when it gets cold but I've left her open in front down to 33F with no ill effects. Still 41F at 10pm so the heater is off. I have a remote temp/rh sensor hanging in the centre of the plant and it hit 81F in there today even with the wind.
I've never removed a healthy leaf from her yet and very few bad ones. She's just shy of 5ft tall and I'm hoping the cutting I took a month ago starts showing reveg growth soon but it's well rooted. She is growing in the ground using a mix of various mediums the bulk of which is ProMix HP. Only watered a few times all summer and recently given a good feed high in K to get them buds busting! 4 weeks to go I figure. This is an experiment for me.
My other experiment is inside.
I just flipped my two Monkey Banana Kush plants last Friday. Yesterday I found a thrip on one of the tiny lower leaves so lollipopped both of them and took a lot of the little sucker shoots off the remaining branches. Will make it a lot easier to hunt for any remaining thrips with all that little crap gone too.
The plant on the left has been fed nothing but Greenleaf nutrients. MegaCrop 1-part for the base nutes, Big Up - 0-52-34 for it's P/K boost and have Rock Steady - 0-0-62 for a K boost later.
The one on the right is eating AN nutes. 3-part for base nutes and Big Bud - 0-15-35 with 10%S 20 aminos and citric/ascorbic acids. Had a little Bud Factor X left over so am giving it a bit of that too.
Both as close to being identical clones from the same mother as I could select from 7 and get some things in common like the medium. Both in the same mix of ProMix HP with some added biochar, lobster/crab shell and the DynoMyco for beneficial fungi and bacteria. Each will get the Carbo to support the myco and also Epsom Salts plus a vit/supplement mix of my own with Zn, Se, Fe, Vit.B1, Ascorbic acid, (Vit.C) and some citric acid. Equal amounts of all that stuff to keep the experiment on the level. So far the AN plant has done a bit better and got a bit bigger but the proof is in the final product and yield.
I consider this well lollipopped. Just did it yesterday. They are under a 600W Hortilux Super HPS and already stretching. Kept those long branches on the far right as I want to spray them with STS to get some fem pollen for making fem seeds.
Trimming out the lower stuff is a good idea tho. Most of the time I've just left it and end up with too much little popcorn to fuss with but not this time. I don't defoliate at all either. One big fan leaf can make more food for the plant than the tiny bud leaves on a dozen lower buds. Any lower buds will grow fine with shade over them but they will need light to ripen up. To that end I crop in stages by taking the big colas off and removing any upper fan leaves then letting the lower, smaller colas green up good and the trichomes get at least 50% milky before taking them off.
Wizzlebiz
Well-Known Member
Monday update..... on tues.
As previously stated didnt do shit got chopped on Saturday. We now have defoliated and lollipop left.
Il speak on the didnt do shit situation in a moment.
1st the pics.
Left defoliated right lollipop
Defoliated
Lollipop
Buds defoliated
Lollipop
Lollipop has me convinced it will destroy defoliated in weight. Maybe il be surprised but I doubt it.
Both are now at 100% of fox farms reccomended values. Both are in phenomenal shape.
Now for the info on the didnt do shit plant. Its still drying so we won't be talking about exact weight quite yet however didnt do shit produced like I didnt do shit.
Meaning it will be the lowest producer out of the 3. The pros and cons I experienced.
Pros:
I didnt have to do shit
It had little to no issues with nutrients or deficiencies
Easy to work with
Finished a whole lot faster than the other 2.
Cons:
Low yield
Lots of larf lower than canopy
Bugs were a serious issue with all those lower leaves. Almost impossible to cover the entire plant to check for pests.
Trimming was a pain in the ass.
All in all my experience here has taught me that although it might be easy it becomes hard work to keep pests at bay for less of a yield. However if you want a quicker turn around for your yield thisight be a good way to go.
Oh the other 2 still have weeks to go. Im thinking 4 to 5 weeks.
Now I want to say I have seen comments (weirdly outside of this tread) about this thread not being clones nor indoor.
Next year I will do clones in the same exact comparison. But it will be outdoors. Sorry to those who want it indoors but its a set up I just can't do.
As always if there are any questions please feel free to ask.
WIZ
P.S. I wish I could say I trimmed this this way but kinda cool how it grew by itself.
As previously stated didnt do shit got chopped on Saturday. We now have defoliated and lollipop left.
Il speak on the didnt do shit situation in a moment.
1st the pics.
Left defoliated right lollipop
Defoliated
Lollipop
Buds defoliated
Lollipop
Lollipop has me convinced it will destroy defoliated in weight. Maybe il be surprised but I doubt it.
Both are now at 100% of fox farms reccomended values. Both are in phenomenal shape.
Now for the info on the didnt do shit plant. Its still drying so we won't be talking about exact weight quite yet however didnt do shit produced like I didnt do shit.
Meaning it will be the lowest producer out of the 3. The pros and cons I experienced.
Pros:
I didnt have to do shit
It had little to no issues with nutrients or deficiencies
Easy to work with
Finished a whole lot faster than the other 2.
Cons:
Low yield
Lots of larf lower than canopy
Bugs were a serious issue with all those lower leaves. Almost impossible to cover the entire plant to check for pests.
Trimming was a pain in the ass.
All in all my experience here has taught me that although it might be easy it becomes hard work to keep pests at bay for less of a yield. However if you want a quicker turn around for your yield thisight be a good way to go.
Oh the other 2 still have weeks to go. Im thinking 4 to 5 weeks.
Now I want to say I have seen comments (weirdly outside of this tread) about this thread not being clones nor indoor.
Next year I will do clones in the same exact comparison. But it will be outdoors. Sorry to those who want it indoors but its a set up I just can't do.
As always if there are any questions please feel free to ask.
WIZ
P.S. I wish I could say I trimmed this this way but kinda cool how it grew by itself.
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Boatguy
Well-Known Member
Didnt you say you over lst'd that plant prior to flower. May have alot to do with your end result.
You really did shit to it, that you didnt to the others
Wizzlebiz
Well-Known Member
I lst them all. Everyone of them. That one was showing more colas so it got a bit more.
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
Just sayin. I like the idea of what you were trying to do, just not the execution
Wizzlebiz
Well-Known Member
Appreciate the feedback. Seems im the only one willing to not only do it but fully document it. Next year will be clones. I will try to do better LST exact for all of them.
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
I do appreciate your effort.
Clones would go a long way to actually verifying results, along with equal toppings etc. What youve done has been interesting but really doesnt show much either way. Trimming is obviously easier on a plant that has been pretrimmed
Doug Dawson
Well-Known Member
Nice, didn't do shit is going to be my outdoor auto grow at cottage next year. Glad your back online and feeling better.
Wizzlebiz
Well-Known Member
Not only feeling better but has an incredible fishing morning.Nice, didn't do shit is going to be my outdoor auto grow at cottage next year. Glad your back online and feeling better.
21 stripers from 8am to 1:30pm
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
The little guys have been in abundance in mass recently. I hope the big boys come back
Wizzlebiz
Well-Known Member
Oh something I falied to mention. Larf. Lots of larf on the didnt do shit. While defoliated seems to have much less larf down in the Bowles of the stalks.
It does seem there is some benefit to some outdoor defoliation for the lower bud sites.
Wizzlebiz
Well-Known Member
Yea its been a bit crazy. The largest striper I have caught there was 48 inches.
Last year over 30 keepers. This year. 4. Lol
Boatguy
Well-Known Member
The size limits are pretty annoying. Got 2 i could keep, and several over the 36" max. 28 to 36 is a pretty narrow window.
If the bait is still here when the come back south they may hang out for a while.
jensen71
Well-Known Member
What if u have a canopy of fan leaves covering little budgets and smaller less developed flowers that are sprouting offa branches like everywhere. Half way through flower. Lollipoped once and clipping leaves turning stripy yellow. 
Here’s a top shot.
here’s a bottom shot.
and here what one of the mid
Branches that I wired closer to the top looks like.
Would it help to develop the little buds below the if they had more light? Like can I gently stress train the tall branches toward the side so that they are. At the same level as the little ones that aren’t as developed? And what about the fan leaves in the lower part of a stalk that’s higher than the other buds?
Here’s a top shot.
here’s a bottom shot.
and here what one of the mid
Branches that I wired closer to the top looks like.
Would it help to develop the little buds below the if they had more light? Like can I gently stress train the tall branches toward the side so that they are. At the same level as the little ones that aren’t as developed? And what about the fan leaves in the lower part of a stalk that’s higher than the other buds?
Wizzlebiz
Well-Known Member
You could go through all that trouble or you can just harvest the upper part of the plant which in turn will open the bottom to the light and allow the bottom half to finish.
Less work same result.
jensen71
Well-Known Member
i did that with my indoor gorilla glue plants and the budlets were spouting into little popcorn nugs but didn't have the patience to spend the extra electricity on them. since this is my first outdoor grow ive got much more room to maneuver around.
WeedMan2020
Well-Known Member
I kinda have the same issue, I just now trimmed the leaves that were covering most the sites to let more light and air through, but I'm still a little skeptical about cutting the sites that are lower than the rest! Would be good to have some more advice on what to do.
Here's before and after:
Wizzlebiz
Well-Known Member
Monday update.
Windy as fuck today also 100 degrees outside. Both doing well. Beginning to see the end of the tunnel here on these 2.
Its already pretty damn clear cut folks. Didnt do shit will guarenteed be the least yield. Just under 4 zips.
Defoliated will be next in that line is my assumption. But barley. I will say that it was easier to deal with pests with this one.
Lollipop is the beast. Colas longer than my head, branches that can hold those colas with minimal outside support. The structure of the buds and stalks are just leaps and bounds better than the other 2.
There is no question in my mind Lollipop wins in every category.
Defoliated
Lollipop
Massive difference
As always have a wonderful day folks.
Windy as fuck today also 100 degrees outside. Both doing well. Beginning to see the end of the tunnel here on these 2.
Its already pretty damn clear cut folks. Didnt do shit will guarenteed be the least yield. Just under 4 zips.
Defoliated will be next in that line is my assumption. But barley. I will say that it was easier to deal with pests with this one.
Lollipop is the beast. Colas longer than my head, branches that can hold those colas with minimal outside support. The structure of the buds and stalks are just leaps and bounds better than the other 2.
There is no question in my mind Lollipop wins in every category.
Defoliated
Lollipop
Massive difference
As always have a wonderful day folks.
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