If you were teaching a new grower...

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
I 1000000% agree with this whole heartly!
When's the last time you sterilized and cleaned the entire set up? You hydro guys kill me. I used to be one. And I touted my set ups and results for ever. Inferior to organic soils and more complicated. If not you're on a collision path with issues. Pathogens, minerals and algae will show their ugly heads. Best of luck to all. And happy you are confident enough to debate the subject. I only wash the pots after harvest. That's about 2 -3 hours less work than tanks , lines and pumps. Happy plants and bigger buds.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I dont think it's aimed at me my friend,,, (nice vert stuff, yourself :weed: ). And like I said, I have done hydro, and I had outstanding results. RDwc and eb and flo. And it was cool. And I do kinda dig what some cats do with coco. But as I recall, the title of this thread was, "If you were teaching a new grower...". And that is the subject I was speaking toward. I just believe as much as new people worry about silly things and make (strange) mistakes, soil gives them a better buffer for success. For that matter, we could say, screw the pot all together. If a new cat just puts a plant in some good ground and makes sure it has enough water, they will more than likely make it to the finish line. After they watch the entire life cycle of the plant and learn its tells, they could and probably should move on to other methods. It can be lots of fun. And heck, that person might discover something really cool along that journey. It could be a game changer for all of us ,,,and that is always cool....

But I believe (and you don't have to) that learning about growing (anything) should start in soil. Thats where plants naturally grow. People do tend to over complicate basically everything. Especially first time growers. Even more so, (it seems to me), those who decide to go hydro their first time. That is why we have a bunch of people constantly asking if their plant is going to die.
I have literally gone to someone's property, found decent soil (with good sun) and said, "just put it there. And if it hasn't rained in a week water water it". They got,,, "about a pound "lol.. seriously though that's what they got.
So back to addressing the original question. I would tell them what I initially said. And the reasons remain the same. And beyond that, it is where and how most people begin growing. After they get it a little, they can move on to other methods and settle on one or keep changing it up for fun. Your experience and talent seems to back up my position too. As you said, "The first time I switched from soil to hydro, it was truly a revelation". And I'm sure it was. I felt the same way for a while when I did my first indoor dwc. But eventually I went back to my roots, in the dirt. Which I believe is where people (if they can) should start. But by all means, everyone, grow however, wherever you can!:bigjoint:And good luck doing it!
Of course it's natural for many people to want to start in soil as that's what most of us equate any type of growing with. Plants = soil.

But what I am saying is that if I were teaching a new grower – as I have done over the years – I would advise to them to:

Fill a pot with coco
Mix up some nutrient solution
Water

It is really that simple. The best part is, not only is it just as simple to water a coco pot as it is a soil pot, you can't overwater coco like you can soil – preventing a lot of issues that noobs strike, such as damp off and root rot – and you don't have any issues with hotspots in the soil or irregular mixes.

Hydro doesn't have to be DWC or ebb and flow or recirculating or aeroponics or any of those things: it can be as simple as watering a pot. And you can't tell me growing in soil is easier than that. Because even growing in soil, at some point you need to add nutrient to get your plants through veg and flower.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
When's the last time you sterilized and cleaned the entire set up? You hydro guys kill me. I used to be one. And I touted my set ups and results for ever. Inferior to organic soils and more complicated. If not you're on a collision path with issues. Pathogens, minerals and algae will show their ugly heads. Best of luck to all. And happy you are confident enough to debate the subject. I only wash the pots after harvest. That's about 2 -3 hours less work than tanks , lines and pumps. Happy plants and bigger buds.
I don't sterilise or clean my entire set-up. I use organic-based nutrients, so I do not have a sterile system. Mine is full of beneficial bacteria.

The only reason hydro is considered "complicated" is because soil guys like to make it sound more complicated than it really is ;)
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
And let's not forget, power outages........ heck those can be scary. No electricity, no bubbles, no oxygen . Eeeaaak! I've had that happen.
Again, no worries with coco. Your pots will stay moist and you can hand-water as back-up. The reality is, power outages usually only last a short time, while the average coco pot can hold water for a few days until it runs dry (depending on pot and plant size and how warm it is).

Having played with wet sets, hydro, aero, wicking and flow for years. I am convinced that soil is easier. Hydro guys forget cleaning of lines, filters, tanks pumps, stones, tables and the timers and constant glitches in electric components and valving flow rates. I make soil. water until flower. Mix correct PPM of "1" part water soluble and feed. No ph needed. Add a Tsp of molasses every third feeding in flower. How is that more difficult? And my soil grows are denser and no chemical after taste. Organics are the preferred method here.
I don't forgot any of that because hardly any of it affects me. Timers fail, but that's usually light-related, not water related.

Hydro is faster and has the potential to be denser than soil – sorry, that's just a proven scientific fact!

And you can grow organically in hydro – as mentioned above – so the "better taste in soil" myth is just that. A myth.
 

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
I don't sterilise or clean my entire set-up. I use organic-based nutrients, so I do not have a sterile system. Mine is full of beneficial bacteria.

The only reason hydro is considered "complicated" is because soil guys like to make it sound more complicated than it really is ;)
You hand water?? It's not worth the debate. Fun as it may be. You win. I was entertained and enlightened. Peace and happy grows.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
You hand water?? It's not worth the debate. Fun as it may be. You win. I was entertained and enlightened. Peace and happy grows.
I don't hand-water. I have an auto run-to-waste system using coco coir as the medium. I use a "fusion" nutrient, which is a mix of organic-based NPK, humic, fulvic and mineral salts (among other things).

I am simply referring to the fact you can start in hydro by hand-watering coco coir in a pot – that's how simple it is. Once you get the hang of that, you can move on to more automated systems.

The moral of the story is, hydro can be as easy or as complicated as you want it to be. My system is pretty hands-off. Once I've mixed my nutrient solution, there's not much else I need to do except keep an eye on my plants and adjust the lights and sometimes the water pressure.

I do rinse my reservoir and wash my pump every now and then. Not every grow – more like every 4th or 5th grow – and I've never cleaned my lines. I've been using the same plumbing now for 3 years without a wash!
 

getogrow

Well-Known Member
When's the last time you sterilized and cleaned the entire set up? You hydro guys kill me. I used to be one. And I touted my set ups and results for ever. Inferior to organic soils and more complicated. If not you're on a collision path with issues. Pathogens, minerals and algae will show their ugly heads. Best of luck to all. And happy you are confident enough to debate the subject. I only wash the pots after harvest. That's about 2 -3 hours less work than tanks , lines and pumps. Happy plants and bigger buds.
i dont do hydro and probably never will but its easy as shit.
After you get your soil recipe/strain down then its much easier but when problems happen we are guessing. hydro guys dont have to guess about much .....they alter every aspect for the most part.
As for cleaning , i also agree.
 

MikeLife500

Active Member
I don't hand-water. I have an auto run-to-waste system using coco coir as the medium. I use a "fusion" nutrient, which is a mix of organic-based NPK, humic, fulvic and mineral salts (among other things).

I am simply referring to the fact you can start in hydro by hand-watering coco coir in a pot – that's how simple it is. Once you get the hang of that, you can move on to more automated systems.

The moral of the story is, hydro can be as easy or as complicated as you want it to be. My system is pretty hands-off. Once I've mixed my nutrient solution, there's not much else I need to do except keep an eye on my plants and adjust the lights and sometimes the water pressure.

I do rinse my reservoir and wash my pump every now and then. Not every grow – more like every 4th or 5th grow – and I've never cleaned my lines. I've been using the same plumbing now for 3 years without a wash!
I would really like to see your setup. Im in the process of setting up an auto feed and drain coco grow. Just waiting on a few more parts. Im following cocoforcannabis.com diy guide
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
I would really like to see your setup. Im in the process of setting up an auto feed and drain coco grow. Just waiting on a few more parts. Im following cocoforcannabis.com diy guide
Here is my very first LED grow: https://rollitup.org/t/strip-leds-in-the-garden-of-paradise.954799/

If I was going to do it again, I wouldn't change anything but the lights – I've got much better LEDs now :eyesmoke:

Us noobs want advice and tips, not the millionth debate over soil vs hydro! :lol:
You've got it!
 

pulpoinspace

Well-Known Member
Didn’t read the whole thread but like some others I would recommend DTW hydro with peat or coco and liquid synthetic nutrients. Flouros for veg and LED/HID for flower depending on climate. 2x4 for veg 4x4 for flower. And blue lab ph and ec meters.
 

Ayokiwi717

Well-Known Member
How small of a grow room?
How many plants?
How many watts?
Chinese Qb?
Etc...
I like my 6×6×8 mars grow tent, kingbright lights (I would get 320w or above if you want to grow more than two). Kingbright is a great price for a good light. I paid 230 for my kingbright 320. I would always say to get a little more of something than what you expect to do. If you get a tent only for two, then your screwed if you want to grow four.
 

Ayokiwi717

Well-Known Member
I'd advice starting small. 60x60cm would be fine. 1-2 plants. 100-150w quality leds. Don't go bigger before you harvest atleast 150g dry per grow from the tent.
I would say to get the better light especially right off the bat. I made a mistake and spending money on a 120w light i believe and was not happy. I say 200w and above. I would personally go for 300w and above. Then again I'm growing 4 plants. If he's only growing one then a 100w should do you good
 

go go kid

Well-Known Member
OK, I'm just going to have a little laugh to myself :lol:

You have some nice plants, but you're not going to convince me that soil is easier than basic hydro ;)

Adjusting your pH is like brushing your teeth – only easier.

Step 1
Test pH

Step 2
Add a few drops of pH Down/Up. Or not. (Some hydro nutrients don't need pHing).

In fact, you only need to set your pH once when you mix your nutrient. After that, you can let it naturally rise to facilitate a wider range of nutrient availability.

As for Soil vs Hydro . . .

Soil
* water
* big bloom
* epsom salt
* silica
* honey

Vs

Coco
* water
* Two part nutrient
* silica
* pH Down (when needed)

I see you grow vertically – as did I for many years until I switched to LED – so I'm glad we have an apples to apples comparison. And of course, this is not aimed at you personally, as I'm simply trying to dispel the myth that soil is easier than hydro. (I wasn't laughing at you, just the notion that pH is some sort of "voodoo", when really it's as easy as pissing in a pot.)

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The bottom line is, even if you find a good soil to work with, you never really know what's in it, and there are few soils that can take you all the way from veg to bloom without any additives, such as lime (calcium and magnesium) or potash (PK boost). That's why you often see soil plants fade during flower due to salt build-up, nutrient imbalance or deficiency – something that's easy to avoid in hydro.

Soil is also slow and finicky when it comes to watering – especially in big pots – as it takes a long time to address nutrient imbalances because you can't just dump your nutrient mix or flush all the nutrient out to fix a problem.

You can grow organically in hydro, as I do (using organic based nutrients instead of straight mineral salts), and if you also use an organic medium – such as coco – you get a slow release of potassium right when you need it, during flower. Then you can either reuse your coco for the next grow or compost it to your garden.

With deep water or shallow water culture, you simply dump your old nutrient into your garden. If you have problems, you start with a fresh mix – and you can do that as many times as you like.

Each to their own, but let's not pretend that hydro is complicated when it's not. It can be as easy as hand-watering a coco pot, or as complicated as a climate-controlled aeroponic system – with various levels of complexity in-between.

Again, this is not aimed at you – as you clearly have experience – but I find those who say hydro is complicated are usually those who have never tried it. Or have overcomplicated it themselves.
wicked, id herd great things about growing with the light bulb down to maximise light to the colas, but never seen such fine examples. lookin sexy as fuck
 
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