Plant issues in flower

[Stoney Bear94]

Hi All, start with posting my plant details.

grown in 7 gallon smart pots with FFHF, mixed with some dolomite lime only as the PH starts a bit low. Growing with 1000w LED. RH between 40-50% for flower. 2 6” fans blowing. With 6” exhaust fan running.

have been watering with PHd tap water adding only some Cal Mag for veg. In flower, I’ve been adding a little cal mag and 1tbs of blackstrap molasses/gal per water. Watering about once every 3 days with near 0 runoff each water. Really haven’t fed the plants very much, as the plants aren’t super big (21 inches) in 7 gal pots.

just the other day gave some dr. Earth bud and bloom booster as a top soil treatment

Plants grew without any issue most their life, no burnt tips or clawing pre-flower. Starting around week 3 or so of flower, starting to see some different symptoms.

1. Clawing of leaves
-appears like a nitrogen toxicity. Makes sense since week 3 of flower or so, plant not needing as much nitrogen. Confusing as I haven’t been adding nutes to soil.
2. Burnt Tips -appears like over fert. Also strange since I haven’t been adding nutes, the PH also has been measured whole life, always within 6.2-6.8 and no burnt tips in veg
2. Brown spots on leaves below sugar leaves -
Almost appears like a nute deficiency, like a mag deficiency or manganese deficiency, small brown spots closest to the stems of leaves primarily below the sugar leaves getting a lot of light. Strange as I have been giving some CalMag throughout grow and Ph from 6.2-6.8.

The plants don’t look too bad but I had really thought I nailed growing conditions, which is why I’m confused around these symptoms.

Nutrient Lockout? Since I didn’t really add fert I didn’t think I would get nute lockout. Looks like maybe too much nitrogen in soil or sensitive strain is locking out Mag/Manganese?

I was attempting a somewhat organic grow seeing that the plant would get whatever nutrients it needs - possible that FFHF just isn’t a real organic soil that can build the correct life for an organic system - and maybe has too much available nitrogen in it that’s locking out other things.

or could it be that the plant has used up the nutrients in the 7 gal pots and actually is facing deficiencies? Maybe the clawing could be from too much air movement with a small tent? Seems worse around the walls where the air flow would be higher.

 

[Stoney Bear94]

Here are some pics. 1 strain is liberty haze. One is blueberry. Both exhibit basically the same symptoms

 

[Kushash]

Hi All, start with posting my plant details.

grown in 7 gallon smart pots with FFHF, mixed with some dolomite lime only as the PH starts a bit low. Growing with 1000w LED. RH between 40-50% for flower. 2 6” fans blowing. With 6” exhaust fan running.

have been watering with PHd tap water adding only some Cal Mag for veg. In flower, I’ve been adding a little cal mag and 1tbs of blackstrap molasses/gal per water. Watering about once every 3 days with near 0 runoff each water. Really haven’t fed the plants very much, as the plants aren’t super big (21 inches) in 7 gal pots.

just the other day gave some dr. Earth bud and bloom booster as a top soil treatment

Plants grew without any issue most their life, no burnt tips or clawing pre-flower. Starting around week 3 or so of flower, starting to see some different symptoms.

1. Clawing of leaves
-appears like a nitrogen toxicity. Makes sense since week 3 of flower or so, plant not needing as much nitrogen. Confusing as I haven’t been adding nutes to soil.
2. Burnt Tips -appears like over fert. Also strange since I haven’t been adding nutes, the PH also has been measured whole life, always within 6.2-6.8 and no burnt tips in veg
2. Brown spots on leaves below sugar leaves -
Almost appears like a nute deficiency, like a mag deficiency or manganese deficiency, small brown spots closest to the stems of leaves primarily below the sugar leaves getting a lot of light. Strange as I have been giving some CalMag throughout grow and Ph from 6.2-6.8.

The plants don’t look too bad but I had really thought I nailed growing conditions, which is why I’m confused around these symptoms.

Nutrient Lockout? Since I didn’t really add fert I didn’t think I would get nute lockout. Looks like maybe too much nitrogen in soil or sensitive strain is locking out Mag/Manganese?

I was attempting a somewhat organic grow seeing that the plant would get whatever nutrients it needs - possible that FFHF just isn’t a real organic soil that can build the correct life for an organic system - and maybe has too much available nitrogen in it that’s locking out other things.

or could it be that the plant has used up the nutrients in the 7 gal pots and actually is facing deficiencies? Maybe the clawing could be from too much air movement with a small tent? Seems worse around the walls where the air flow would be higher.

They don't look to bad.
Molasses is like crack cocaine to microbes. Only someone who knows why they are using it should use it otherwise it is likely to do more harm than good.

FFHF is a good soil that uses cheaper ingredients than FFOF. With proper care and feeding it can grow dank weed.

Might want to do some research on using molasses in a potted plant.

 

[Stoney Bear94]

They don't look to bad.
Molasses is like crack cocaine to microbes. Only someone who knows why they are using it should use it otherwise it is likely to do more harm than good.

FFHF is a good soil that uses cheaper ingredients than FFOF. With proper care and feeding it can grow dank weed.

Might want to do some research on using molasses in a potted plant.

I’ve been googling this for a while - says it’s good for soil as bacteria food - add bacteria with the molasses if there isn’t already bacteria established in soil. Apply 1-2tbs per gallon in flower.
Do you have a better source I can reference?

 

[Kushash]

I’ve been googling this for a while - says it’s good for soil as bacteria food - add bacteria with the molasses if there isn’t already bacteria established in soil. Apply 1-2tbs per gallon in flower.
Do you have a better source I can reference?

I'll see what I can find.
Do you have a link to one or more of your sources from google? I'd like to read them.

 

[Kushash]

I’ve been googling this for a while - says it’s good for soil as bacteria food - add bacteria with the molasses if there isn’t already bacteria established in soil. Apply 1-2tbs per gallon in flower.
Do you have a better source I can reference?

I'm going to need some time.
Don't worry about posting any links, I see there are plenty of links showing it as a good additive.

 

[Stoney Bear94]

I'm going to need some time.
Don't worry about posting any links, I see there are plenty of links showing it as a good additive.

As always There’s a lot of information, a lot of it contradictory. Latest theory - adding the molasses boomed the bacteria by the roots, killing off some of fungi, lowering the plants option to choose its nutrients and having the roots sitting in the high nitrogen content already present in FFHF, causing nitrogen toxicity and nutrient lockout of the other micros?
Chances are I’ll just water from here on out - no flush as I didn’t add salts except for some ph down.

 

[Kushash]

I’ve been googling this for a while - says it’s good for soil as bacteria food - add bacteria with the molasses if there isn’t already bacteria established in soil. Apply 1-2tbs per gallon in flower.
Do you have a better source I can reference?

As always There’s a lot of information, a lot of it contradictory. Latest theory - adding the molasses boomed the bacteria by the roots, killing off some of fungi, lowering the plants option to choose its nutrients and having the roots sitting in the high nitrogen content already present in FFHF, causing nitrogen toxicity and nutrient lockout of the other micros?
Chances are I’ll just water from here on out - no flush as I didn’t add salts except for some ph down.

I want to find a reliable EDU link as a reference.

In the mean time I found some reading material here on RIU. Might even be better.

Dr. Who is a well known member here on RIU. Much of what I have learned was from following him.

Go to the riu search and put Dr. Who in the member slot and molasses in the search and you will have pages of information.

The 1st page alone should at least give you an idea of his opinion on molasses and how to use it.

 

[curious2garden]

Hi All, start with posting my plant details.

grown in 7 gallon smart pots with FFHF, mixed with some dolomite lime only as the PH starts a bit low. Growing with 1000w LED. RH between 40-50% for flower. 2 6” fans blowing. With 6” exhaust fan running.

have been watering with PHd tap water adding only some Cal Mag for veg. In flower, I’ve been adding a little cal mag and 1tbs of blackstrap molasses/gal per water. Watering about once every 3 days with near 0 runoff each water. Really haven’t fed the plants very much, as the plants aren’t super big (21 inches) in 7 gal pots.

just the other day gave some dr. Earth bud and bloom booster as a top soil treatment

Plants grew without any issue most their life, no burnt tips or clawing pre-flower. Starting around week 3 or so of flower, starting to see some different symptoms.

1. Clawing of leaves
-appears like a nitrogen toxicity. Makes sense since week 3 of flower or so, plant not needing as much nitrogen. Confusing as I haven’t been adding nutes to soil.
2. Burnt Tips -appears like over fert. Also strange since I haven’t been adding nutes, the PH also has been measured whole life, always within 6.2-6.8 and no burnt tips in veg
2. Brown spots on leaves below sugar leaves -
Almost appears like a nute deficiency, like a mag deficiency or manganese deficiency, small brown spots closest to the stems of leaves primarily below the sugar leaves getting a lot of light. Strange as I have been giving some CalMag throughout grow and Ph from 6.2-6.8.

The plants don’t look too bad but I had really thought I nailed growing conditions, which is why I’m confused around these symptoms.

Nutrient Lockout? Since I didn’t really add fert I didn’t think I would get nute lockout. Looks like maybe too much nitrogen in soil or sensitive strain is locking out Mag/Manganese?

I was attempting a somewhat organic grow seeing that the plant would get whatever nutrients it needs - possible that FFHF just isn’t a real organic soil that can build the correct life for an organic system - and maybe has too much available nitrogen in it that’s locking out other things.

or could it be that the plant has used up the nutrients in the 7 gal pots and actually is facing deficiencies? Maybe the clawing could be from too much air movement with a small tent? Seems worse around the walls where the air flow would be higher.

Those punctate brown spots are a Ca deficiency. The other two clawing and burnt tips are to much N. As for solving it keep working with @Kushash

 

[curious2garden]

I want to find a reliable EDU link as a reference.

In the mean time I found some reading material here on RIU. Might even be better.

Dr. Who is a well known member here on RIU. Much of what I have learned was from following him.

Go to the riu search and put Dr. Who in the member slot and molasses in the search and you will have pages of information.

The 1st page alone should at least give you an idea of his opinion on molasses and how to use it.

Yup @Dr. Who is one of the best. I bet he uses sulphured molasses. I'm in hydro so I only use molasses in cookies ;D

 

[polishpollack]

probably a bad theory. HF has fert, will last, just give water. don't speculate on bacteria or fungi or pH. don't pH adjust water. water to some runoff and let them grow. almost there. No one can tell if it's calcium or what the problem is without lab testing the leaf. don't worry about a few brown spots. it could be heat related. it could be genetically related. no one here really knows for sure. don't add anything else, just let them live out their lives and harvest.

 

[Stoney Bear94]

So why would I get symptoms of over feeding and underfeeding if I haven’t been adding ferts and have been ensuring the Ph is str8?

have been reading some of those posts with Dr. Who

 

[Stoney Bear94]

probably a bad theory. HF has fert, will last, just give water. don't speculate on bacteria or fungi or pH. don't pH adjust water. water to some runoff and let them grow. almost there. No one can tell if it's calcium or what the problem is without lab testing the leaf. don't worry about a few brown spots. it could be heat related. it could be genetically related. no one here really knows for sure. don't add anything else, just let them live out their lives and harvest.

Living in Chicago my tap water is a lil high like 7.5 or so - I started using a little vinegar to lower it to the 6.5 range - is that not the play?

 

[polishpollack]

I'm not sure that using vinegar is a good idea. It kills microbes and you need those in the soil to help the plant take up nutrients. HF soil has nutrients, if you read the bag you'll see it in the small print. you've given dr. earth booster, probably not a good idea. you've given extra calmag without being certain you need to. You really should have used bigger containers, like 10 gallons but 7 is pretty good and the plants look good for the most part. I wouldn't worry too much. Maybe curious2garden missed the calmag. can't have deficiency when it's given.

 

[Dr. Who]

Hi All, start with posting my plant details.

grown in 7 gallon smart pots with FFHF, mixed with some dolomite lime only as the PH starts a bit low. Growing with 1000w LED. RH between 40-50% for flower. 2 6” fans blowing. With 6” exhaust fan running.

have been watering with PHd tap water adding only some Cal Mag for veg. In flower, I’ve been adding a little cal mag and 1tbs of blackstrap molasses/gal per water. Watering about once every 3 days with near 0 runoff each water. Really haven’t fed the plants very much, as the plants aren’t super big (21 inches) in 7 gal pots.

just the other day gave some dr. Earth bud and bloom booster as a top soil treatment

Plants grew without any issue most their life, no burnt tips or clawing pre-flower. Starting around week 3 or so of flower, starting to see some different symptoms.

1. Clawing of leaves
-appears like a nitrogen toxicity. Makes sense since week 3 of flower or so, plant not needing as much nitrogen. Confusing as I haven’t been adding nutes to soil.
2. Burnt Tips -appears like over fert. Also strange since I haven’t been adding nutes, the PH also has been measured whole life, always within 6.2-6.8 and no burnt tips in veg
2. Brown spots on leaves below sugar leaves -
Almost appears like a nute deficiency, like a mag deficiency or manganese deficiency, small brown spots closest to the stems of leaves primarily below the sugar leaves getting a lot of light. Strange as I have been giving some CalMag throughout grow and Ph from 6.2-6.8.

The plants don’t look too bad but I had really thought I nailed growing conditions, which is why I’m confused around these symptoms.

Nutrient Lockout? Since I didn’t really add fert I didn’t think I would get nute lockout. Looks like maybe too much nitrogen in soil or sensitive strain is locking out Mag/Manganese?

I was attempting a somewhat organic grow seeing that the plant would get whatever nutrients it needs - possible that FFHF just isn’t a real organic soil that can build the correct life for an organic system - and maybe has too much available nitrogen in it that’s locking out other things.

or could it be that the plant has used up the nutrients in the 7 gal pots and actually is facing deficiencies? Maybe the clawing could be from too much air movement with a small tent? Seems worse around the walls where the air flow would be higher.

My ears was a burning....@curious2garden...

Once you water. The Ph of the soil will shift by around a whole point. As it dries back out. It shifts back to the "Ph resting point" of the soil.
If, the spoil should sit dry too long,,,,,,,the Ph shifts out of whack.

As for watering? Water enough water/feed to last 24 hrs and do it again! I prefer to control my Ph range by doing daily watering as part of my grow method for cannabis.

I would say that your watering to far between for something your using as a fert. You say your NOT feeding it?
How about that the soil has simply run out of available nutrients at plant needed levels!

NO FFHF or FFOF will last a run. In fact, it's more like a 30 day soil. Sometimes less for some nutes in the soil.

I suggest you start feeding. It might give you a useable finish of some sort.

Next run? USE nutrients ( at about 25 days ) OR amend the soil to BE a super soil! IF you don't have that build a soil knowledge....It's worth learning AND it will take some time to get right for your conditions..

I'll see what else you have to say to this and go from there.

 

[Stoney Bear94]

My ears was a burning....@curious2garden...

Once you water. The Ph of the soil will shift by around a whole point. As it dries back out. It shifts back to the "Ph resting point" of the soil.
If, the spoil should sit dry too long,,,,,,,the Ph shifts out of whack.

which way does it shift in the soil? If my runoff is 6.5 after watering it would shift to 7.5 or 5.5 as it dries?


As for watering? Water enough water/feed to last 24 hrs and do it again! I prefer to control my Ph range by doing daily watering as part of my grow method for cannabis.

Interesting, I had always read that it was supposed to be saturated and allow to dry fully. Any good sources I can look up?

I would say that your watering to far between for something your using as a fert. You say your NOT feeding it?
How about that the soil has simply run out of available nutrients at plant needed levels!

My runoff is still around 2000PPM. I know that doesn’t mean much for organic but is that relevant here?

NO FFHF or FFOF will last a run. In fact, it's more like a 30 day soil. Sometimes less for some nutes in the soil.

I probably should have added the bloom booster earlier- had thought the soil would have lasted. How would I know the soil is stripped of nutrient

I suggest you start feeding. It might give you a useable finish of some sort.

have been reading the teaming series - this is the direction im looking to go

Next run? USE nutrients ( at about 25 days ) OR amend the soil to BE a super soil! IF you don't have that build a soil knowledge....It's worth learning AND it will take some time to get right for your conditions..

thanks for the inputs . Still dialing in here, my 2nd grow but starting to understand a bit more





I'll see what else you have to say to this and go from there.

 

[polishpollack]

Dr. Who, how do you come with this junk? FFOF will last an entire run if the grower uses enough of it, ten gallons or a little more. I'm talking to someone in messages that is doing that very thing right now and the plants look good.
Why do you say that a super soil be adjusted for someone's conditions? That is nonsense. An indoor grow is an indoor grow usually with conditions being the same, like room temp, humidity (for the most part). Don't bring your nonsense logic to the forum. BTW, the grower says they did feed, the top dress of Dr. Earth. Probably not a good idea as 7 gallons of Happy Frog soil should be okay for a good long while.

 

[Stoney Bear94]

Dr. Who, how do you come with this junk? FFOF will last an entire run if the grower uses enough of it, ten gallons or a little more. I'm talking to someone in messages that is doing that very thing right now and the plants look good.
Why do you say that a super soil be adjusted for someone's conditions? That is nonsense. An indoor grow is an indoor grow usually with conditions being the same, like room temp, humidity (for the most part). Don't bring your nonsense logic to the forum. BTW, the grower says they did feed, the top dress of Dr. Earth. Probably not a good idea as 7 gallons of Happy Frog soil should be okay for a good long while.

Is there any value in the 2000 PPM in the runoff? I know that doesn’t symbolize available nutrients but confirms that the soil still has nutes?

 

[polishpollack]

It means you just washed out 2000 ppm per amount of water that it's diluted in. It's a good indication of how high ppm really is in that soil.

 

[H420Baby]

Yup @Dr. Who is one of the best. I bet he uses sulphured molasses. I'm in hydro so I only use molasses in cookies ;D

He has said black strapped tbf