Buddernugs
Well-Known Member
Have u thought about becoming a politician?
Ph Crashing Overnight
- Thread starter TheCreaMachine239
- Start date
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
I'm kinda with ya on that one!
johnsmith1010
Active Member
ok so am going to pre apologize for not reading all the thread.
I have grown and run similar system for 30 years
I do know the issue and will talk about that first.
ph buffer in water system is 4he hardness of the water or calcium and magnesium carbonate. they make up an average of 70 of waters normal salt levels ( ec)
basic stuff :any solution must contain all 12 minimum needed nutrients in reasonable proportion. N P K Ca Mg S Fe Mn B Z Cu Mo
the ec of most water systems run best at 1700Us ( microsemeins)
which is around 1200ppm or 1.2 ec I think ? .easily checkable
ther is a buildup of carbonic acid that can occur in spray systems. if is litterly from the co2 in the air .but uslly not a huge issue.
nutrients are acidic . they will acidify the water .
every day they need topping up with water and nutrients to maintain a 1700 Us level. once a week drain and remix nutrients.
now , nutrients are taken up differently in water and soil systems .
cations or pos particle like calcium or magnesium are taken up by soil particle interaction.
anions or neg particles like sulphate or phosphate are taken up through the liquid. ( will post pic of hydroponic food production by dr Howard m resh best book on the subject . a must have)
so at the end of the day
-house water no adjustment
- ec 1700 Us complete 12 minerals
- ph 6 to 6.5
now when you have a very dynamic system with lots of watering and movement there is massive heat exchange. the water will quickly heat hp 5o room temp . the oxygen holding capacity if water drops 4o near 0% at 32c . you can oxygenate all you want but it wont help .that is why people use chillers. if you need extra electricity to do something that others don't to do the same job than that is a clue .
aeroponic is a hobby system but will NOT out produce a normal soiless or hydroponic system. there is only so much plant matter you can put in a sq ft . so at that point ite about doing it for mess energ5 snd work .
I routinely get 35 gram per sq ft .or 1.25 lb per 4x4 area with a 600 watt lightb( actually closer to 400wstt as it is on a mover and only part if the time is it stationary) that is a standard ebb and flow table with basic minerals and on a 70 day cycle . clones straight into table in 4" cubes packed together st 9 per sq ft form 1" cubes 21 days old .I can keep 10 flower light producing from 1 veg light for mothers and clones . ( I know is difd4nt but every dynamic system with extremely consistent yields)
if your ph is dropping it is 100% because of th4 calcium and magnesium carbonate being low and your acidic nutrients are over taxing it .
I 100% recomend hydroponic food production By dr Howard m resh .
I have grown and run similar system for 30 years
I do know the issue and will talk about that first.
ph buffer in water system is 4he hardness of the water or calcium and magnesium carbonate. they make up an average of 70 of waters normal salt levels ( ec)
basic stuff :any solution must contain all 12 minimum needed nutrients in reasonable proportion. N P K Ca Mg S Fe Mn B Z Cu Mo
the ec of most water systems run best at 1700Us ( microsemeins)
which is around 1200ppm or 1.2 ec I think ? .easily checkable
ther is a buildup of carbonic acid that can occur in spray systems. if is litterly from the co2 in the air .but uslly not a huge issue.
nutrients are acidic . they will acidify the water .
every day they need topping up with water and nutrients to maintain a 1700 Us level. once a week drain and remix nutrients.
now , nutrients are taken up differently in water and soil systems .
cations or pos particle like calcium or magnesium are taken up by soil particle interaction.
anions or neg particles like sulphate or phosphate are taken up through the liquid. ( will post pic of hydroponic food production by dr Howard m resh best book on the subject . a must have)
so at the end of the day
-house water no adjustment
- ec 1700 Us complete 12 minerals
- ph 6 to 6.5
now when you have a very dynamic system with lots of watering and movement there is massive heat exchange. the water will quickly heat hp 5o room temp . the oxygen holding capacity if water drops 4o near 0% at 32c . you can oxygenate all you want but it wont help .that is why people use chillers. if you need extra electricity to do something that others don't to do the same job than that is a clue .
aeroponic is a hobby system but will NOT out produce a normal soiless or hydroponic system. there is only so much plant matter you can put in a sq ft . so at that point ite about doing it for mess energ5 snd work .
I routinely get 35 gram per sq ft .or 1.25 lb per 4x4 area with a 600 watt lightb( actually closer to 400wstt as it is on a mover and only part if the time is it stationary) that is a standard ebb and flow table with basic minerals and on a 70 day cycle . clones straight into table in 4" cubes packed together st 9 per sq ft form 1" cubes 21 days old .I can keep 10 flower light producing from 1 veg light for mothers and clones . ( I know is difd4nt but every dynamic system with extremely consistent yields)
if your ph is dropping it is 100% because of th4 calcium and magnesium carbonate being low and your acidic nutrients are over taxing it .
I 100% recomend hydroponic food production By dr Howard m resh .
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rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
16 not 12
1.7EC is too strong for some people. you can't throw a generic blanket on what every grower should feed in hydro. 1.7 would be overkill in a aero system for instance. aero is hydro. 1.7 would burn my plants for sure.
and the proper pH range for hydro is 5.5 to 6.1
you p0st some pure garba8ge here.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
every day they need topping up with water and nutrients to maintain a 1700 Us level. once a week drain and remix nutrients...... problem with that is, in a small res like mine topping up with fresh water or water w/ nutes, in 2 days my ph would start to get unstable. I would have to do res change every 3 days.
johnsmith1010
Active Member
it's not 1.7 ec it's 1700 microsemiens( Us .) 700 ppm or 0.7 ec =1000 microsemeins Us .so 1700 Us = around 1200? ppm or 1.2 ec ?
learn your conversations and scales.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
I don't believe he's having any problems with his conversations... or conversions.
johnsmith1010
Active Member
yes that is exactly what is happening. different nutrient is absorbed and some left behind. actually most of everything is left but whatever, same thing, ec rises and salts become unbalanced.
and absolutely root rot such as pythium virticulem or the most deadly fusarium oxysporum would be very apparent as they would just lay waste to the plants
johnsmith1010
Active Member
if the small res is that dynamic then that just may be the way it is . I used small undersized res for flow tables before. you just change them more but they go through more extremes as th4 salt /water ratio was a lot more dynamic. plants using 10 to 20 % of the volume daily is a lot different than 50% a day. .
now I may have missed it but how much damage is happening? or is it 6ou just see big swings.?
ph ranges only add or subtract from availability not stop it .
in plant tissue culture in test tubes they run a ph of 4.5 so reduce bacteria contamination. low ph will not kill anything especially when you take it into consideration. as I said before certain minerals such as cations are absorbed better in soil . just chging 5he medium can influence the minerals uptake of certain minerals. ph drift is not the massive problem it is made out to be . 5.5 to 7.5 is almost the same . up around 7..5 chelated trace minerals edta will drop out of the solution above 7.5 and will not come back. now minerals ions will not. minerals like boric acid or molybdenum sulphate are less absorbable forms but will not drop out . chelated edta minerals are much more absorbable ( and expensive)but ph limited
johnsmith1010
Active Member
here is a shot out of hydroponic food production with ph chart
you see it does not change much from 5 to 7 . even below 5 its thr macro nutrients that are reduced and those can be just increased. if you rin at a ph wher one or another mineral is favored you can just increase that nutrient. no big deal
you see it does not change much from 5 to 7 . even below 5 its thr macro nutrients that are reduced and those can be just increased. if you rin at a ph wher one or another mineral is favored you can just increase that nutrient. no big deal
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Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
Well I noticed that if I kept up with the lowering water level, it held its ph stability longer. I work so I can't refill with water every couple hours. Only thing I can come up with is to connect a control/ header bucket and connect a top off res to that. I think that would get me another day or 2 out of my solution.
johnsmith1010
Active Member
well that is a good idea. a tall 200 liter drum could work. what is the limitation that made you use 4hr small one you are using?
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
Hmmm... I've never heard that before. I've been led to believe for hydro is 5.5-6.5.
johnsmith1010
Active Member
ok so who told you ? or did you read it ? that is the problem. spoken word, awesome for poetry, shitty for science. here are the holy trinity of books .
hydroponic food production by dr Howard m resh ( most complete)
rockwool in horticulture by Dennis Smith ( excellent on rockwool but the same data applies to all hydro culture. has more ph related info )
ABC of NFT. by dr allan cooper ( boring commercial tomatoes and cucumber production in 1977 but these are the bare minimum basics on how to grow commercially with things that cost a shit load less 4hsn weed. they made their own basic shit because it would not be commercially available for 10 to 15 years)
read all 3 you know 90% + as much as any person on the planet. it is science but not rocket science.
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Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
Well... people I trust for starters. I've kept mine in that ph range and never had any problems.
johnsmith1010
Active Member
sure . if it works then you do it . the weed bus is rife with misinformation. i would like to point out no one other than myself has referenced you or redirected to to an actual book. I have read the thread ....and Evey other thread...and not seen one book referenced. not 3ven a pot book .
i will be straight. I grew illegally since 1989 .i ran about 80000 watt for 15 years of that with an output of about 80 lb a month. any system y8u can name I used and a half dozen I made myself. over all i learned an awful lot by fuckig up an awful lot. I can tell 5iu what works because I paid for the knowledge by fuking up hundreds of lb of weed .
ever use a carbon filter? my company TIBBITS AIR in cobourg ont invented 4he first carbon filter in 1997 . we made a 20 lb triangular refillable carbon cartridge called the wedge .sold 110000 between 1997 to 2003 until my patents lapsed and my first competitor, can filter , started selling there's.
I am not telling you to run low ph all the time but unless it is killing 4hem fast who cares? plants are tough . there's lot of good science to show variable ph and ec and environmental factors help. your stomach goes form ph 2 to 5.5 . whether changes. soil changes. . if it ain't broke dont fix it ..if it is not working exactly right down over react. if it works now maybe slightly adjust it like a bigger res. I was saying a standing res with a pump and gravity drain. the one u use to fill table supplemented by the bigger one . as in engine building and reservoir sizing , there is no replacement for cubic displacement.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
Well...I wouldn't say misinformation because what works for one setup/ strain, may not work for another. So somebody's"correct" information maybe be incorrect for somebody else. I believe that's what causes so much debate. Though I do agree the best way to learn is by fucking it up and learning from your mistakes. Not the cheapest way but it forces you to learn fast. Lol
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
1700 is not 700 ppm. on a 0.5 scale, it would be 850ppm and 1200ppm on a 0.5 scale would 2.4EC not 1.2EC.
dAm3, yh3 have no id81 wh%at you are talking about.
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firsttimeARE
Well-Known Member
Wouldnt 1200ppm on 0.5 scale would be 2.4EC?
My bluelab combo reads 600ppm as 1.2EC
My bluelab combo reads 600ppm as 1.2EC
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
this guy has no idea what he's talking about. at first he said hydro range is 6 to 6.5 which would leave out alot of nutes that are absorbed below 6.