This isn't over.

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
For a guy who has no power he sure seems to be causing quite the shit show. Actually right now I’m thinking he holds a lot more power than you think, I hope I’m wrong :).
It's a shit show right now, for sure. The Republican Senate gave Trump the power of a king when they refused to impeach him for an obviously corrupt act and abuse of his power. They agreed that Trump could do whatever he wanted, legal or not, so long as he said it was in the national interest. They aren't even getting punished for doing this by their own electorates. So, we have a large faction in this country who care more about ruling than they care about the sanctity of their own votes. Basically, they are ceding their rights to Republican leadership. Meanwhile, the majority of this country are depending on the courts to prevent a coup. None of this could happen without the tacit support of Republican Senators.

Even now, only two Republican Senators have come out against what Trump is doing. I hark back to what Trump said when he defended their actions to seat a remarkably patriarchal Christian radical to the Supreme Court: "We are doing it because we have the power".

I hope to see those words engraved in the walls of Trump's jail cell.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
It's a shit show right now, for sure. The Republican Senate gave Trump the power of a king when they refused to impeach him for an obviously corrupt act and abuse of his power. They agreed that Trump could do whatever he wanted, legal or not, so long as he said it was in the national interest. They aren't even getting punished for doing this by their own electorates. So, we have a large faction in this country who care more about ruling than they care about the sanctity of their own votes. Basically, they are ceding their rights to Republican leadership. Meanwhile, the majority of this country are depending on the courts to prevent a coup. None of this could happen without the tacit support of Republican Senators.

Even now, only two Republican Senators have come out against what Trump is doing. I hark back to what Trump said when he defended their actions to seat a remarkably patriarchal Christian radical to the Supreme Court: "We are doing it because we have the power".

I hope to see those words engraved in the walls of Trump's jail cell.
I dont disagree with what you are saying about the placating that the Republicans have been doing.

But I don't think that Trump has actually done anything but act a fool, and nobody can do anything about a president being a dick if the senate won't impeach them until you vote them out of power, which is what happened.

Everything since, is very dangerous, but ultimately just Trump trolling while he fleeces his cult and continues his theft of our tax dollars.

The Republicans in Wayne county the other day came very close to crossing the line into coup territory because they are nut jobs. I don't trust the Republicans in our state senate either, but it is on them to not break the laws of our land. But it they do, and not conspiracy theory quack definition of breaking the law, then that is something different.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I dont disagree with what you are saying about the placating that the Republicans have been doing.

But I don't think that Trump has actually done anything but act a fool, and nobody can do anything about a president being a dick if the senate won't impeach them until you vote them out of power, which is what happened.

Everything since, is very dangerous, but ultimately just Trump trolling while he fleeces his cult and continues his theft of our tax dollars.

The Republicans in Wayne county the other day came very close to crossing the line into coup territory because they are nut jobs. I don't trust the Republicans in our state senate either, but it is on them to not break the laws of our land. But it they do, and not conspiracy theory quack definition of breaking the law, then that is something different.
Just trolling?

Trump did sue in the courts to have all the votes in the presidential race in Pennsylvania thrown out. He called for 7 million voters to be disenfranchised without evidence to justify his suit. Trump did call election officials in Wayne County and after they talked, they reversed their decision to certify the vote in that county. 300,000 voters would be disenfranchised if he's successful there.

Same sort of shenanigans in Wisconsin. Same sort of shenanigans in Georgia. Same sort of shenanigans in Arizona. Can we really call court suits that attempt to disenfranchise millions of voters, "just trolling"?

It's very thin ice we are on, when a single decision by a single judge in a single court could put this election in doubt.

Thank goodness that thus far it hasn't happened. Do you still think Trump is trolling when he appeals this? All he needs to do is win ONE decision in his favor. Its all clearly unconstitutional and would not have a chance if Republican Senators cared about the rule of law. Meanwhile, Trump is committing yet more crimes without the threat of impeachment. This time he's tampering with our elections by directly calling and attempting to influence elections officials and lawmakers in various states. Assuming Trump loses in his bid for a coup, I hope to see a grand jury seated to investigate his recent actions. If Trump wins, we all lose.

Republican Senators are supporting Trump despite the laws of this land. I get that we didn't hand them their asses this election. I get that there is a lack of concern regarding the rule of law by a large number of voters -- that concerns me more than anything else. Still, though, lawmakers are supposed to follow the law, aren't they? Instead they handed him the rights of a king during the impeachment trial.

" The King need not care how oft he fights... If we fight 100 times and beat him 99 he will be King still, but if he beats us but once, or the last time, we shall be hanged, we shall lose our estates, and our posterities be undone.''
 
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captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
When one party in a two party system decides to destroy the system, it's destroyed, even if you don't want to recognize it.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Just trolling?

Trump did sue in the courts to have all the votes in the presidential race in Pennsylvania thrown out. He called for 7 million voters to be disenfranchised without evidence to justify his suit. Trump did call election officials in Wayne County and after they talked, they reversed their decision to certify the vote in that country. 300,000 voters would be disenfranchised if he's successful there.

Same sort of shenanigans in Wisconsin. Same sort of shenanigans in Georgia. Same sort of shenanigans in Arizona. Can we really call court suits that attempt to disenfranchise millions of voters, "just trolling"?

It's very thin ice we are on, when a single decision by a single judge in a single court could put this election in doubt.

Thank goodness that thus far it hasn't happened. Do you still think Trump is trolling when he appeals this? All he needs to do is win ONE decision in his favor. Its all clearly unconstitutional and would not have a chance if Republican Senators cared about the rule of law. Meanwhile, Trump is committing yet more crimes without the threat of impeachment. This time he's tampering with our elections by directly calling and attempting to influence elections officials and lawmakers in various states. Assuming Trump loses in his bid for a coup, I hope to see a grand jury seated to investigate his recent actions. If Trump wins, we all lose.

Republican Senators are supporting Trump despite the laws of this land. I get that we didn't hand them their asses this election. I get that there is a lack of concern regarding the rule of law by a large number of voters -- that concerns me more than anything else. Still, though, lawmakers are supposed to follow the law, aren't they?

" The King need not care how oft he fights... If we fight 100 times and beat him 99 he will be King still, but if he beats us but once, or the last time, we shall be hanged, we shall lose our estates, and our posterities be undone.''
I am not just trolling, just having a conversation about this.

Trump can sue all he wants unfortunately, but it doesn't mean that they are anything more than the hot air that Trump has spouted the last 4 years.

Just because he needs 1 of say 60 frivolous lawsuits to work to get something that might overturn something in one state, doesn't mean that it is even a close to a 1/60 chance.

I see Republicans in congress as not really having anything that they can do to stop Trump because of McConnell. But I don't think that there is actually anything that they are doing that is technically breaking the law (Trump sure he is already trying to avoid jail time).

I agree with the concern, all it takes is a enough people in a handful of states to be willing to break the law and crown Trump king. But outside of the usual suspects on the Republican side and Trump's cultists that are radicalized into breaking the law in their executive branch roles, or the ones becoming domestic terrorists, I haven't seen anyone willing to break the law because Dear Leader wants them to.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Just trolling?

Trump did sue in the courts to have all the votes in the presidential race in Pennsylvania thrown out. He called for 7 million voters to be disenfranchised without evidence to justify his suit. Trump did call election officials in Wayne County and after they talked, they reversed their decision to certify the vote in that country. 300,000 voters would be disenfranchised if he's successful there.

Same sort of shenanigans in Wisconsin. Same sort of shenanigans in Georgia. Same sort of shenanigans in Arizona. Can we really call court suits that attempt to disenfranchise millions of voters, "just trolling"?

It's very thin ice we are on, when a single decision by a single judge in a single court could put this election in doubt.

Thank goodness that thus far it hasn't happened. Do you still think Trump is trolling when he appeals this? All he needs to do is win ONE decision in his favor. Its all clearly unconstitutional and would not have a chance if Republican Senators cared about the rule of law. Meanwhile, Trump is committing yet more crimes without the threat of impeachment. This time he's tampering with our elections by directly calling and attempting to influence elections officials and lawmakers in various states. Assuming Trump loses in his bid for a coup, I hope to see a grand jury seated to investigate his recent actions. If Trump wins, we all lose.

Republican Senators are supporting Trump despite the laws of this land. I get that we didn't hand them their asses this election. I get that there is a lack of concern regarding the rule of law by a large number of voters -- that concerns me more than anything else. Still, though, lawmakers are supposed to follow the law, aren't they?

" The King need not care how oft he fights... If we fight 100 times and beat him 99 he will be King still, but if he beats us but once, or the last time, we shall be hanged, we shall lose our estates, and our posterities be undone.''
We just need to get used to how the United States operated legally before Trump, when all this shit had serious consequences. Joe will be hands off the DOJ, what happens in the aftermath of Trump depends on the race in Georgia, if you win, congress will share much of the burden and take any heat. If you don't win Georgia you will have a house divided and no progress and a major investigative branch of government crippled.

The inertia and momentum are in Joe's favor as is the constitution and law, Trump might as well try to defy the law of gravity. Anything but a Biden victory would mean civil war, plain and simple, if the courts backed it, it would be the end and reform of them too, fuck with the constitution and all bets are off. The country will not tolerate living under an illegal Trump, neither would the military, if they try to impose him it will end in death for them.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Our country was built with the idea of trust and cooperation between the political parties for the common good of both sides. If one side says fuck it the system is broken and may never recover.
If you withdraw from the system, others will take your place, power abhors a vacuum.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I am not just trolling, just having a conversation about this.

Trump can sue all he wants unfortunately, but it doesn't mean that they are anything more than the hot air that Trump has spouted the last 4 years.

Just because he needs 1 of say 60 frivolous lawsuits to work to get something that might overturn something in one state, doesn't mean that it is even a close to a 1/60 chance.

I see Republicans in congress as not really having anything that they can do to stop Trump because of McConnell. But I don't think that there is actually anything that they are doing that is technically breaking the law (Trump sure).

I agree with the concern, all it takes is a enough people in a handful of states to be willing to break the law and crown Trump king. But outside of the usual suspects on the Republican side and Trump's cultists that are radicalized into breaking the law in their executive branch roles, or the ones becoming domestic terrorists, I haven't seen anyone willing to break the law because Dear Leader wants them to.
Pre election both democrats and republicans said they would respect the election results by 80% for each side, so we are talking about 20% of republicans here, maybe more in Georgia.

Edit, see more recent data below.
 
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CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
It’s not the follower of laws, IMO, you should be worried about right now. The GOP has lost their collective minds at this point. The more they stay silent about this bullshit the more validity they add to the lie. The fuckwads are thinking they are saving the US from hell and “Their” president is not saying different. He’s defcon 3 away from starting a very dangerous situation.
I don’t dispute anything you’ve said here. I’m just saying he will be gone on Jan20 and no court is going to stop that from happening.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I am not just trolling, just having a conversation about this.

Trump can sue all he wants unfortunately, but it doesn't mean that they are anything more than the hot air that Trump has spouted the last 4 years.

Just because he needs 1 of say 60 frivolous lawsuits to work to get something that might overturn something in one state, doesn't mean that it is even a close to a 1/60 chance.

I see Republicans in congress as not really having anything that they can do to stop Trump because of McConnell. But I don't think that there is actually anything that they are doing that is technically breaking the law (Trump sure he is already trying to avoid jail time).

I agree with the concern, all it takes is a enough people in a handful of states to be willing to break the law and crown Trump king. But outside of the usual suspects on the Republican side and Trump's cultists that are radicalized into breaking the law in their executive branch roles, or the ones becoming domestic terrorists, I haven't seen anyone willing to break the law because Dear Leader wants them to.
Did some research on this:

More Republicans Distrust This Year’s Election Results Than Democrats After 2016

Poll(s) of the week
President Trump’s refusal to accept the outcome of the election has sown distrust in the election, especially among Republicans.

According to a new Monmouth University poll, about three in four Republicans now doubt the fairness of the 2020 presidential election, even though there is no evidence that the electoral process was compromised in a way that could affect the outcome. And as you can see in the chart below, distrust among Republicans has skyrocketed since Election Day.



Monmouth isn’t the only pollster to find very high levels of distrust among Republicans, either. A YouGov/Economist poll this week found that 73 percent of Republicans had little or no confidence that the election was conducted fairly and a Morning Consult/Politico poll found that 67 percent of Republicans thought that the 2020 election was either “probably” or “definitely” not free and fair.

It’s important to stress that all three pollsters did find that a majority of Americans accepted the results — roughly 6 in 10 — but what is worrisome is that only about 4 in 10 said they were very confident that the election was conducted fairly and accurately.

This is troubling, because as my colleague Perry Bacon, Jr. wrote earlier this week on Trump’s refusal to concede, there are now very real questions about American democracy and whether it will remain intact.

[What Trump’s Refusal To Concede Says About American Democracy]

This, of course, isn’t the first time Trump has tried to sow doubt in the democratic process. Before and after the 2016 election, Trump falsely claimed that millions of undocumented immigrants were going to vote in the election, or that “people that have died 10 years ago are still voting,” even though there was never any evidence that these claims were true. And, as was the case ahead of the 2016 election, Republicans once again were more likely than Democrats to believe these fraudulent claims as they went to the polls.

The key difference between now and 2016, though, is that after the election, a majority of Republicans are still unwilling to accept the result. That wasn’t true of Democrats in 2016.

In 2016, both parties trusted the election results
Share of voters who were confident that votes across the country would be or were counted accurately, before and after the 2016 election

PRE-ELECTION (10/15/16)POST-ELECTION (1/28/17)
POPULATIONCONFIDENTNOT CONFIDENTCONFIDENTNOT CONFIDENTDIFF.
All66%3067%26+1
Democrats84146528-19
Independents53376128+8
Republicans56417322+17
SOURCE: MORNING CONSULT

Lest we think that Republicans are the only ones susceptible to having their view of the electoral process colored by the outcome, polling shows that some Democrats did lose confidence in the election after Trump won in 2016. Nevertheless, a majority of Democrats (as well as Republicans and independents) believed that votes were counted accurately after the election was over. So the finding in this latest round of polls, that roughly three in four Republicans don’t have faith in the electoral process, is a big departure from what public opinion polls found after the last election.

[What Blue And Red ‘Shifts’ Looked Like In Every State]

It’s hard to know what this means for American democracy — Biden’s claim to the presidency doesn’t seem to be in real jeopardy — but these first few post-election polls lay bare the consequences to sowing disinformation in America’s electoral process.

Other polling bites
  • The presidential election might be over, but polls for Georgia’s two U.S. Senate runoff elections — which are scheduled for Jan. 5 and will decide which party controls the chamber — have already started to trickle in. Since Election Day, we have gotten two polls, one from Remington Research Group and another from InsiderAdvantage, that show the races could be close. The polls, both from right-leaning pollsters, show that the special election between Democrat Raphael Warnock and Republican Kelly Loeffler could be a toss-up, with the candidates virtually tied. A third poll of just the special election runoff, which was sponsored by a Republican PAC, shows Loeffler slightly ahead. In the other race, the Remington poll shows incumbent Republican Sen. David Perdue leading his opponent, Jon Ossoff; the InsiderAdvantage poll shows that race tied. But these are just the first of many more polls to come, so be sure to keep an eye on our database of polls between now and January for a more rounded look at the polling.
  • 58 percent of Americans said they would get a COVID-19 vaccine if an FDA-approved vaccine was available right now, according to a Gallup poll conducted in late October. Willingness to get vaccinated had dipped in September due, in part, to a sharp drop in support among Democrats, but now the share of Democrats willing to get vaccinated is bouncing back, while the share of Republicans and independents willing to get vaccinated has stayed constant.
  • A HarrisX poll released on Tuesday found that 77 percent of Americans thought that Congress should pass a coronavirus relief package as soon as possible, while 23 percent said one is not needed because the economy is bouncing back on its own. This includes a majority of Republicans (64 percent) and Democrats (89 percent).
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
When one party in a two party system decides to destroy the system, it's destroyed, even if you don't want to recognize it.
Vote them out. I am looking forward to the next 4 years as Democrats are a couple months away from finally being in a position to push back on the lies that Trump has been spewing and trolling them with classification games.
Our country was built with the idea of trust and cooperation between the political parties for the common good of both sides. If one side says fuck it the system is broken and may never recover.
That is why I can't wait for Trump's trial.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Damn, a two minute Google of 'presidential executive order origins' would have answered that.
Fyi, George Washington issued the first executive order.
From the Heritage Foundation

"In particular, Article II of the Constitution assigns the president the roles of commander in chief, head of state, chief law enforcement officer, and head of the executive branch. The president has the sole constitutional obligation to “take care that the laws be faithfully executed,” and is granted broad discretion over federal law enforcement decisions.

“He has not only the power, but also the responsibility to see that the Constitution and laws are interpreted correctly,” Heritage Foundation scholar Todd Gaziano wrote in 2001.

When the president lawfully exercises one of these responsibilities, scholars generally agree, the scope of his authority to issue executive orders and other directives is especially broad. As such, Congress has little ability to regulate or limit that authority.

When a president’s authority comes from power granted by statute, Congress is free to negate or modify that authority, or pass legislation to nullify the order itself, because the Constitution empowers Congress to make the laws that govern us. Still, the president has to sign the law enacting that change, unless Congress is able to override his veto."


You're welcome

No thanks. Your "answer" was woeful, inadequate and not responsive to my question. Sorry.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
one step in the right direction in MI.

Michigan's attorney general is reportedly looking into whether or not officials will be violating the law if they act on Donald Trump's instructions to block the certification of Joe Biden's victory in the state.

yahoo had a bunch of pics of the MI officials at the Trump Hotel drinking Dom Perignon after their meeting with Trump.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
one step in the right direction in MI.

Michigan's attorney general is reportedly looking into whether or not officials will be violating the law if they act on Donald Trump's instructions to block the certification of Joe Biden's victory in the state.

yahoo had a bunch of pics of the MI officials at the Trump Hotel drinking Dom Perignon after their meeting with Trump.
Why isn't Michigan's Attorney Genital pressing charges against the Governor Witmer creature for issuing unconstitutional executive orders though?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I am not just trolling, just having a conversation about this.

Trump can sue all he wants unfortunately, but it doesn't mean that they are anything more than the hot air that Trump has spouted the last 4 years.

Just because he needs 1 of say 60 frivolous lawsuits to work to get something that might overturn something in one state, doesn't mean that it is even a close to a 1/60 chance.

I see Republicans in congress as not really having anything that they can do to stop Trump because of McConnell. But I don't think that there is actually anything that they are doing that is technically breaking the law (Trump sure he is already trying to avoid jail time).

I agree with the concern, all it takes is a enough people in a handful of states to be willing to break the law and crown Trump king. But outside of the usual suspects on the Republican side and Trump's cultists that are radicalized into breaking the law in their executive branch roles, or the ones becoming domestic terrorists, I haven't seen anyone willing to break the law because Dear Leader wants them to.
I wasn't accusing you of trolling, I was responding to the characterization of Trump's attempt at a coup as "trolling".

I think we are on thin ice. Trump's team is seeking to appeal decisions in lower courts and he is seeking to have it end up in the Supreme court. Outside of the courts, Trump is calling and pressuring elections officials and state lawmakers to overturn state election results. Would you doubt that Trump is doing things under the table too?

I'm not saying the sky is falling and doing the Chicken Little act. I will say that this is fairly thin ice that we are on. Thank goodness that the election wasn't close enough to make Trump's threat more likely to succeed.

It's a clear signal that we should end the Electoral College too. None of these shenanigans could have taken place if the election were decided at the national level.
 
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