What plant problems manifest as only impacting part of the plant

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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Got a weird one happening for me right now. Using SIP(s) and same strains as I've ran before, pushing them a little harder than usual with organic soil and using NFTG a bit on top. This doesn't appear to be over-feeding but the timing does somewhat correlate with a heavy feed of Herc recently.

For 4 plants, of 2 strains, only 1 of them is showing this weird problem. This is also a plant that appears to have had a main branch crack from weight as it was already growing at a weird angle so I amputated that one since it wasn't going to heal/continue to grow. Before this it was the hardiest and heaviest drinking of the 4.

I'm not thinking this is over-watering as the soil/mix in the SIP is a little different this time and I did top off the rez as it was low before. But the kicker is that it appears only on 1 major branch currently/prominent - but I do see it starting to show in other areas. A couple days of this now and it's not widespread and seems to remain localized.

I considered if it was wind-burn as I have a small oscillating fan near it on the floor and that lines up with where the problem is appearing but the other 3 have the same basic setup and wind exposure/level.

So I keep thinking what type of problems could have localized impact. Over/under watering I'd expect the whole plant... too little or too much (deficiency/toxicity) I'd expect the whole plant.

For those in the know, what are common problems that can be localized like this? They haven't really changed color, did curl up into downward little 'canoes' somewhat, almost entirely rolled up. So currently I'm highly suspect of the fans and wind-burn but can't reconcile that with the fact the other 3 are doing fine.

Thoughts or ideas?
 
N

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Was going to check soil ph & similar since I had done a heavy herc feed but once again convinced myself - nope, it'd impact the whole plant not just a section. I additionally verified the rez wasn't overfilled and saturating the bottom layer of the SIP; The air gap is still present so they aren't sitting in water which again I'd assume would impact the entire plant.

This one has me stumped at the moment...
 
N

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Red state here, I don't do pics otherwiseb I would share. Was hunting the web looking for images with an identical look otherwise.
 
N

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Tonight I was able to check at lights on and there is a little more progression where I had noticed it starting in another area to the back (which gets less direct fan exposure which means I'm thinking it's not wind/fan burn here after all).

The only other notable change is that the hairs definitely started browning up on the impacted branches where the other branches are still white for the most part. The other branches are actually praying right now while these 2 or 3 branches basically have wilted.

Rather than fuck around and risk more damage I've amputated the impacted branches until I know more about what's going on - if it gets worse I'll just sacrifice the plant and move its neighbor under the light better. Lost about a 1/3rd of the plant but maybe that energy will now go to the healthy parts for finishing off.

The only other working theory I've had is maybe when I was placing hose into SIP fill tube I bumped them and did some type of damage that wasn't really visible on branches externally. That would give the localized wilting if they can't drink...
 
N

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
For anyone who read and was curious, I just went in this evening and found the plant beside the one that had the issue had basically wilted overnight and was noticeably dropping. It was the only other one that received a heavy dose of Herculean (liquid bonemeal from NFTG) but it didn't show any real symptoms until just now. It was already a bit puny and bush like in structure but what was standing flopped over.

One thing I'm suspecting that wouldn't be tied to the nutes I've given (to both) is the location in the room. There is one noticeable (and new this time) factor - it sits beside a window that was covered to make this room a grow room. It may be seeing much bigger night time temperature swings.

Now, I don't know if what I'm seeing can be attributed to temp swings. Otherwise why did it start on one plant then the other several days later. They've been treated the same otherwise throughout this run since noting the problem originally.

Also, the other 2 plants which started about 5-7 days later than the others but has otherwise been treated the same is still doing fine and no signs of this issue on them. They sit at the opposite end of the room which is an inside wall so it doesn't seem the same temp swing. The room is only 5x10 so I wouldn't imagine there's a huge difference between the 2 ends.

Stumped on this one still. I double checked pH tonight with a bluelab pen which is a true soil probe version (need to recalibrate maybe but it was calibrated semi-recently). I made my check point in the soil near the root ball and then used RO water to saturate the area/pen and I'm seeing 6.3->6.6 or so for the range after I let it rest for a few and lock into the reading. So in this case I don't think I've got a pH problem in the soil itself. The rez may be another question though from top-feeding/wartering and pushing nutes into rez perhaps...

For what little options I have in a SIP I gave a healthy watering with straight tap water to allow the chlorine to kill any funk that might be involved - I can always reset the biology - and to otherwise give a mini-flush to see if that changes anything. I'm now wondering what the ppm/pH of the rez itself looks like but I didn't include any pumps this time (I did last time and never used them!) so I can't easily do a heavy flush until I find a self-priming pump/hose I can get into the rez. I figure the top-watering flush will at the minimum dilute anything that is in the rez.

Sorry no pics, but it's really just sudden drooping and the leaves curled downwards and inwards (tops showing, bottoms curled inward). And there's still portions of the original plant that is only showing the pencil/dropping leaves with other areas still looking to be thriving with leaves aimed up almost praying still. Very minor yellowing in only a few of the droopy/wilted leaves otherwise.

This is definitely an oddity for me. Most of the variables are the same as other runs except pushing a little harder with the NFTG top-feeds. Which I keep coming back around to the fact that there are 2 other plants not showing issues (yet/fingers crossed).

At this point my real open Q is just what type of havoc can temp swings cause &/or low temps of the rez/soil otherwise. The room stays in high 80's at lights on and the fan has a minimum speed drawing the inlet air from a room that is otherwise heated. No 'outside' temps other than 1 wall that is a good 6-12 inches from the SIPs.
 
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N

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
So it just struck me, the bluelab meter I have is the one with the long ass wires. I can drop them down my fill tube! Ah ha!

So I took a ppm reading and found the 1st plant was at 1450ppm or so. A bit hot so thought maybe I'm onto something. Checked the one that I just found flopped over tonight and it was actually giving the over-max reading. Again I thought ah-ha!

Next I went to the other 2 plants that - at this point - still appear to not be having these issues. Checked their ppm and found them high as well. 1700 or so in one and 1900 something in the other. But again these 2 don't seem to be fried or anything and so far are doing well aside from a little bit of burn (maybe) at the tips. Very minor compared to other pics of nute burn I've observed.

I repeated this for the pH next. Found the 1st two with the issue to be in the 7.5->7.7 range which is a bit high as well I believe for a soil - especially with the NFTG line as it's calcium based and they look for that 6.5->6.8 range iirc. When I checked the other 2 for reference again - they were pretty much in the same range. So though high, we again find all 4 are in similar state.

Was hoping science would explain it all here, but doesn't seem to be the case either. I am going to begin looking for a way to pump out via the fill tube but I think I'll need to find a self-priming pump that I can attach a garden hose or pvc plastic tubing to.
 
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NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Any reccomendations on self-priming transfer pumps for this scenario? The rez only has around 6-7" max so getting a siphon might be tricky. I've looked at self-priming pumps at the big box stores - looking for something I can get tomorrow or next day at latest (i.e. Amazon/1 day).

At the big box stores like HD/Lowes I see little giant which is a proven brand (if not overpriced). Not overly worried about price but want the best I can grab as it might get further use down the road. Don't need a monster size motor, low HP is fine - just needs to be self-priming really and hopefully able to handle small debris in the water.
 
N

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
Maybe I need a snazzier title to get the right eyes on this one, but I can say for sure that this is impacting things branch-by-branch. The original plant has further signs of this issue spreading but when I trace it down to the main stalk it's limited to specific branches. It's as if they have internally been hit with something systemic or that otherwise altered the flow of water into specific branches. They haven't really changed colors as mentioned before but just sudden wilting.

I was able to pickup a transfer pump and empty the rez, perform a minimal flush of 5-6 gallons or so and then pump that back out again. Doubt these can be saved and questioning if anything can be saved/made from what buds do exist. And wondering if it's even safe to use... Probably will go back into a waste pile, doubt I'd even risk composting it if I do abort and move the light over to the other pair.

Completely stumped with this one and yet fascinated by how the impact is so selective. I just keep getting hung up on the fact that if it was a def or toxicity or lockout or pH issue or under/over watering it'd impact the entire plant...
 
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