Why no conclusive side by side defoliation topics

[MICHI-CAN]

I don't cut any leaves. I tuck away what gets in the way. I get decent buds all throughout the plants. Top, middle, and bottom. Any so called larf as people call it is stripped off and used for dry ice hash. Despite what many seem to think the lower stuff and leaves do not rob the plant of nutrients that would instead go to the buds. In fact from what I've read many people say is that they stipp most of the leaves but they grow back. Well then that would mean the plant is replacing leaves and using more energy for that process. Any plant grown properly is capable of supporting all the growth it produces.

Also, using an HID gets better light penetration than the cheap LED's many are using. Plant height makes a difference as well. Many try and grow trees with some underpowered lighting.

It's getting old listening to people and their condescending remarks about old growers being stuck in the past because they grow weed not chase the newest lights or spend time reading cannabis specific literature and watching youtube videos. It's a damn plant. It's easy to grow, keep healthy, and harvest quality product. People making things more complicated than they need to be and denigrating those that don't do things the way they do tend to think they're special and get all defensive when others disagree with them. And it doesn't take a $1200 LED or a $300 grow book to grow weed.

I don't defoliate, I don't use LED's, I don't use cannabis specific nutrients, I don't read cannabis books, I don't watch cannabis youtube videos, I just grow weed. And from some of the grows I've seen on this and many other sites I do a better job at it than many that have thousands into their lights, have enough bottles to fill a Uhaul truck, and have been sucked in by all the cannabis marketing, gimmicks, and broscience. $300 for a book on growing cannabis? Good grief. I'll stick to reading literature on plant science written by plant scientists with PhDs. Cannabis is just another plant and grows like other plants. I treat it that way and it thrives.

Cut the leaves, cut the roots off. Do what you want with your plants. Myself, I just let them grow. I don't have the desire to play with them like others do. Cutting this and that at this week or that week. I'll wait until I harvest and then do a complete defoliation.

I'm with you on old growers and methods. I have used incandescent in the day all the way to my 301's. Would still finish under HPS if I had the room.

4 part soil mix. 4 part amendments. And 1 part water soluble fert. Better than any previous shiny packages or fancy methods. Dig in the dirt folks. Not on the net.

And people need to learn to grow roots. The plant is just an indicator of the real workings condition.

Peace all.

 

[Serpentz]

I've only been growing for a few years now. I'm still a noob (probably will be for years to come). However, I have tried the lolli-popping, defoliating (LOTS of work!) thing. The only reason I was doing this was because I heard/read/watched online that removing these lower leaves redistributes energy to the top of the plant. This might (probably was) have been a stupid reason to do this. You read and watch stuff online, and it's hard to understand what is really good advice, and what is bad. So, with that in mind, I just now decided I will not cut any leaves off my new grow. I have documented my last grow, and have a LOT of photos and video of that grow to compare to this new grow. But I also have two 180 watt Hans Panels for this next grow, and I think light is not going to be a problem. So let's see what happens and I'll share. I got a grow journal up already, and I won't touch her.

 

[Bookush34]

I defoliate my plants and lollipop them.
hell I topmy autos the odd time to run one.

Do I get a little less yield. Probably. Who cares. It’s always more then I can smoke and give to buddy’s.
What I do get is a bunch of fully developed buds and no fluffy stuff. Easy to trim. And buds are less in number but bigger in size.

It’s what I like and it’s what I do. Do what works for you.

 

[UpstateRecGrower]

Defoliation doesn't increase flowering time lol, everything I run is done in 8-9 weeks with a heavy defoliation between 2-3 weeks. They get lolipopped right before the flip, only leaving around 3 nodes on top.. By 2-3 weeks (usually closer to 3) I clean up the bottoms again as needed and go through each plant and each branch removing fans that are either blocking other fans or other bud sites, each flower area is 12x8 and i fill up a storage tote with fans.. i also grow a denser canopy than most as well so I could see how someone growing the same size plants with more area per plant wouldn't want to defoliate so heavy, but any leaf covering another leaf or directly on top of a bud site should be removed as well as the lower most ones that aren't receiving light. The lower fans use energy to stay alive, more energy than they are producing being heavily shaded, that's why the plant kills them off once they go without light for so long.. The argument that "if they weren't needed then nature/evolution wouldn't have put them there" doesn't apply, we don't grow our plants as nature intended, our main goal is to grow as much quality smokable bud as we can, not seeds..

 

[Kindbud421]

Just my personal opinion, if you are growing for your own consumption you shouldn’t need to worry about larf and popcorn buds. They are useable for hash and extracts. If you are growing for sale... then yeah, you want the best looking product you can get. I defol in veg a couple times. Once on flip day, and once after 3 weeks of flower. After that only leaves covering sites are removed. If I didn’t defol like that I would have a giant mass of leaves at the end with only tops to show for it. The rest of the plant wouldn’t produce much past the first few inches below tops. With defol ,light reaches down into plant and fills in those areas that wouldn’t get proper lighting. Yes I lollipop and prune bottom third but after 3rd week of flower I only remove what’s necessary for upkeep.

 

[MICHI-CAN]

Just my personal opinion, if you are growing for your own consumption you shouldn’t need to worry about larf and popcorn buds. They are useable for hash and extracts. If you are growing for sale... then yeah, you want the best looking product you can get. I defol in veg a couple times. Once on flip day, and once after 3 weeks of flower. After that only leaves covering sites are removed. If I didn’t defol like that I would have a giant mass of leaves at the end with only tops to show for it. The rest of the plant wouldn’t produce much past the first few inches below tops. With defol ,light reaches down into plant and fills in those areas that wouldn’t get proper lighting. Yes I lollipop and prune bottom third but after 3rd week of flower I only remove what’s necessary for upkeep.

As a non profit hobbyist I must say the compliments, wow factor and pride in a job well done is my reward and compensation.

And larf only matters for those "Testers" as you go along. LOL. Or those recreational associates who are a bit lower on the food chain. It's all worth the wash in the end.

Peace.

 

[Cvntcrusher]

I don’t actively look for science to back the minimal defoliation I do. probably could, I honestly might learn something.
I have have my experience growing over the years(weed and vegetables)

the only cutting of plants I do nowis the first 3-4 branches near the soil that they put out from seed I will pinch them off leaving the fan leaves to suck up light.
After that topping if I fancy it.
Other than that, leave the leaves alone, if the plant is sucking energy out of lower leaves let it happen and pick up any dry dead leaves daily when you check on the plants.
No need to shock or stunt plants taking away all its leaves

-edit- go to your garden and take all the leaves off your eggplant and tomato so the sun really gets to the fruit...you’ll be sad you did

Man I like this simple but effective via getting to the point. XD

 

[Cvntcrusher]

I don’t actively look for science to back the minimal defoliation I do. probably could, I honestly might learn something.
I have have my experience growing over the years(weed and vegetables)

the only cutting of plants I do nowis the first 3-4 branches near the soil that they put out from seed I will pinch them off leaving the fan leaves to suck up light.
After that topping if I fancy it.
Other than that, leave the leaves alone, if the plant is sucking energy out of lower leaves let it happen and pick up any dry dead leaves daily when you check on the plants.
No need to shock or stunt plants taking away all its leaves

-edit- go to your garden and take all the leaves off your eggplant and tomato so the sun really gets to the fruit...you’ll be sad you did

BTW u like R&M?

 

[Dr. Who]

There is a reason schwazzing is a coined term, in a $300 grow book.
It does work.
Old growers don't want to evolve. Just like the reluctance to switch to LEDs.

Proof will be in the pudding though.
My next 3 grows will be dedicated to side by side tests

Right, no changing plants when it's not working out the way you want.

You don't seem to want to understand my point and explaining it to you is like fighting a a guy with no arms.

BTW, I run HLG 600's and a better copy of their 550's.

The only thing I'm reluctant to do? Things that don't work for what some say they do.

How about you use Molasses and put the plant in Darkness for 3 days before the chop? Don't forget to flush!

 

[Mullumbimby]

Moderation. Balance. Observation. Flexibility. Routine. Discipline.
These things are useful in many areas of life, especially if you want to improve.
The subject of pruning leaves from your cannabis is only a small thing and I'd say that, if you find yourself getting really passionate about it and feeling the need to tell people how right you are and how wrong people who do things differently to you must be, then it may be time to take a look at some other aspects of your life and attitude.
If you did it your way, and felt that you got a good result, here's a great place to share the details and try to show other people what worked for you - but try to remember that you are mostly comparing your great result in your recent grow with your own results from earlier grows, not with my grow, or another bloke's grow, or a grow in someone's video or book.
If you see someone who does something that seems just plain wrong yet he claims that he's found the secret to 'three pounds per light' or 'the biggest buds ever', it doesn't mean he's a complete cunt, even if he is a bit misguided, in your opinion.
Sometimes, it occurs to me that we may be dealing with people who are very young or otherwise immature in forums such as this - these people have a right to express their opinions in their own way, and their enthusiasm for a wonky idea could just be a passing moment in their journey.
I grow indoors exclusively and, personally, I thought for the first few years that 'defoliation' was absurd; why would you trim any of these luscious, life-giving leaves? I harvested some nice buds and a lot of larf before I started taking a bit of advice and now I nip out quite a lot of leaves in the early stages of flowering and it looks to me as though I'm getting a better quality and quantity of bud. Definitely getting much less popcorn and my trim time is less than half what it used to be.
I believe that I've learned something from reading this thread, and I may change what I do to a certain extent - I'll experiment with some pruning in veg, which will probably mean that I'll need to flip more, smaller plants.
Good luck with your grow and try to keep yourself nice.

 

[Kindbud421]

I feel the same as you do about the lights, people that grow in these tints.Use leds are much different than growing in a place where you have space. You look at these big commercial grows you don’t see them using leds at all. The got the the hps every time. I believe these guys know what they are doing!!!

I disagree, I have seen many pictures of commercial growers using LED lights. Their lights are usually hung many feet over canopy, and top of the line lights with customizable spectrums so they can adjust from veg to flower.

 

[bk78]

I feel the same as you do about the lights, people that grow in these tints.Use leds are much different than growing in a place where you have space. You look at these big commercial grows you don’t see them using leds at all. The got the the hps every time. I believe these guys know what they are doing!!!

In 5 years time 90% your sacred LP’s will be switched to LED.

Welcome to 2021, it’s great ain’t it?

 

[Kindbud421]

Moderation. Balance. Observation. Flexibility. Routine. Discipline.
These things are useful in many areas of life, especially if you want to improve.
The subject of pruning leaves from your cannabis is only a small thing and I'd say that, if you find yourself getting really passionate about it and feeling the need to tell people how right you are and how wrong people who do things differently to you must be, then it may be time to take a look at some other aspects of your life and attitude.
If you did it your way, and felt that you got a good result, here's a great place to share the details and try to show other people what worked for you - but try to remember that you are mostly comparing your great result in your recent grow with your own results from earlier grows, not with my grow, or another bloke's grow, or a grow in someone's video or book.
If you see someone who does something that seems just plain wrong yet he claims that he's found the secret to 'three pounds per light' or 'the biggest buds ever', it doesn't mean he's a complete cunt, even if he is a bit misguided, in your opinion.
Sometimes, it occurs to me that we may be dealing with people who are very young or otherwise immature in forums such as this - these people have a right to express their opinions in their own way, and their enthusiasm for a wonky idea could just be a passing moment in their journey.
I grow indoors exclusively and, personally, I thought for the first few years that 'defoliation' was absurd; why would you trim any of these luscious, life-giving leaves? I harvested some nice buds and a lot of larf before I started taking a bit of advice and now I nip out quite a lot of leaves in the early stages of flowering and it looks to me as though I'm getting a better quality and quantity of bud. Definitely getting much less popcorn and my trim time is less than half what it used to be.
I believe that I've learned something from reading this thread, and I may change what I do to a certain extent - I'll experiment with some pruning in veg, which will probably mean that I'll need to flip more, smaller plants.
Good luck with your grow and try to keep yourself nice.

Not to piss anyone off but I agree with you on the age factor of some, I’m 48 and have been growing for over 25 years. I thought I knew everything... HA not quite! The tech and equip has improved so much from back then that the only thing I could say for certain is that I can grow weed! Such a learning curve from back then. I had to completely adjust what I do to manage indoors. To be honest, I took a 15 year hiatus from growing due to life, wife, job, children. Now kids are 17 and wife likes some sativa so I started up again. Whoa! Crash course in brain surgery! Took me awhile but I’m getting the hang of it...

 

[Kindbud421]

Not to piss anyone off but I agree with you on the age factor of some, I’m 48 and have been growing for over 25 years. I thought I knew everything... HA not quite! The tech and equip has improved so much from back then that the only thing I could say for certain is that I can grow weed! Such a learning curve from back then. I had to completely adjust what I do to manage indoors. To be honest, I took a 15 year hiatus from growing due to life, wife, job, children. Now kids are 17 and wife likes some sativa so I started up again. Whoa! Crash course in brain surgery! Took me awhile but I’m getting the hang of it...

 

[UpstateRecGrower]

I feel the same as you do about the lights, people that grow in these tints.Use leds are much different than growing in a place where you have space. You look at these big commercial grows you don’t see them using leds at all. The got the the hps every time. I believe these guys know what they are doing!!!

Pretty sure it has more to do with the cost than anything..

 

[fartoblue]

Well back on topic. Here are some pics of my untouched MAC clones. I will strip one of them @ 3 weeks and leave the rest alone apart from a lolly. If Doc wants to give me some advice on the pruning aspect I will take it willingly. If not I will still do it. Will be the first time I have not defoliated.

 

[possum 1]

Pretty sure it has more to do with the cost than anything..

Probably so but i will keep my 1000 watt hps

 

[fartoblue]

Moderation. Balance. Observation. Flexibility. Routine. Discipline.
These things are useful in many areas of life, especially if you want to improve.
The subject of pruning leaves from your cannabis is only a small thing and I'd say that, if you find yourself getting really passionate about it and feeling the need to tell people how right you are and how wrong people who do things differently to you must be, then it may be time to take a look at some other aspects of your life and attitude.
If you did it your way, and felt that you got a good result, here's a great place to share the details and try to show other people what worked for you - but try to remember that you are mostly comparing your great result in your recent grow with your own results from earlier grows, not with my grow, or another bloke's grow, or a grow in someone's video or book.
If you see someone who does something that seems just plain wrong yet he claims that he's found the secret to 'three pounds per light' or 'the biggest buds ever', it doesn't mean he's a complete cunt, even if he is a bit misguided, in your opinion.
Sometimes, it occurs to me that we may be dealing with people who are very young or otherwise immature in forums such as this - these people have a right to express their opinions in their own way, and their enthusiasm for a wonky idea could just be a passing moment in their journey.
I grow indoors exclusively and, personally, I thought for the first few years that 'defoliation' was absurd; why would you trim any of these luscious, life-giving leaves? I harvested some nice buds and a lot of larf before I started taking a bit of advice and now I nip out quite a lot of leaves in the early stages of flowering and it looks to me as though I'm getting a better quality and quantity of bud. Definitely getting much less popcorn and my trim time is less than half what it used to be.
I believe that I've learned something from reading this thread, and I may change what I do to a certain extent - I'll experiment with some pruning in veg, which will probably mean that I'll need to flip more, smaller plants.
Good luck with your grow and try to keep yourself nice.

"Sometimes, it occurs to me that we may be dealing with people who are very young or otherwise immature in forums such as this - these people have a right to express their opinions in their own way, and their enthusiasm for a wonky idea could just be a passing moment in their journey."

Never a truer word spoken! I am 62 in a few months but as mentioned just been growing around 5 years.

 

[Rurumo]

Another thing to remember, and this is by no means meant as an insult, but a lot of newer growers, not just younger, but anyone who has gotten into the hobby in the past few years, may have never owned anything but an LED light....and their first template for growing may have come from growweedeasy, which promotes a lot of extreme defoliation. People develop a bias when they've succeeded at doing something one way and feel like it worked for them. The best thing would be to try out everything, so you know where other people are coming from, but that's unlikely to happen, so at least be open to new or old ideas. I've seen zero evidence that defoliation increases yields-I do it as part of my crusade against PM, which I never want to see again-because removing some of the undergrowth definitely reduces the RH in the canopy microclimate (and increases ventilation). I would never do the extreme defoliation I've seen in a lot of the photos here though because the first thing a plant does when you do that is dump all of it's energy into growing new leaves...then, what do people do? They chop all the leaves off again three weeks later. I do think bud sites grow better when exposed to direct light though, through observation and trial and error, so I'm not opposed to removing a fan leaf here and there if they are really in the way-just don't forget that those same fan leaves fuel bud growth as well.

 

[bk78]

Another thing to remember, and this is by no means meant as an insult, but a lot of newer growers, not just younger, but anyone who has gotten into the hobby in the past few years, may have never owned anything but an LED light....and their first template for growing may have come from growweedeasy, which promotes a lot of extreme defoliation. People develop a bias when they've succeeded at doing something one way and feel like it worked for them. The best thing would be to try out everything, so you know where other people are coming from, but that's unlikely to happen, so at least be open to new or old ideas. I've seen zero evidence that defoliation increases yields-I do it as part of my crusade against PM, which I never want to see again-because removing some of the undergrowth definitely reduces the RH in the canopy microclimate (and increases ventilation). I would never do the extreme defoliation I've seen in a lot of the photos here though because the first thing a plant does when you do that is dump all of it's energy into growing new leaves...then, what do people do? They chop all the leaves off again three weeks later. I do think bud sites grow better when exposed to direct light though, through observation and trial and error, so I'm not opposed to removing a fan leaf here and there if they are really in the way-just don't forget that those same fan leaves fuel bud growth as well.

The same bias comes from boomers who have only used barn lights.