Defoliating for the highest yield possible

UpstateRecGrower

Well-Known Member
Such a touchy topic around these parts.. I always love the justification of the non believers, "if they didn't need all those fan leaves they wouldn't grow them", "those are the plants solar panels", "they'll take 2 weeks longer to finish because they have to regrow leaves", "that's not how they grow in nature". OK, well here's the thing.. the primary goal in nature and growing naturally in the wild is reproduction, not dense bud's with bag appeal. We're also growing indoors with plants being in close proximity to each other. Leaves do give the plant energy but they also use energy, that's why heavily shaded leaves toward the bottom eventually yellow off and die (the plant defoliates itself). You can have too many leaves or not enough, when you defoliate (at the right time) you need to take off a a good amount because the leaves will fill in again, so you want to take off more than you would think is ideal so that when they grow back (and they do that quicker than you'd think) you have a desirable bud to fan leaf ratio. Plants that have not be defoliated grown in close proximity to each other will also have under developed buds below the top colas, fluffy/larfy, white hairs, looks like they need a couple more weeks. What I do is right before day 1 I lollipop leaving only about 3 nodes on each branch, everything has already been topped in the veg cycle at some point. After about 3 weeks everything has stretched for the most part and filled in, now it's time to goto town.. The bottoms will need to be cleaned up again, remove anything underneath that looks really small, every large fan leaf on the bottom gets removed, they're using more energy than they can make. Any fan leaf shading a bud site or touching another leaf gets removed, the larger top fan's get removed, removing them is going to allow more light into your canopy. Remember you want to remove a little more than you would think because it will fill in again, and there's also maintenance you should do weekly after this if you have the time, look for large fans shading lower bud sites or covering other fan leafs, ect.. I know a lot of growers are against defoliation, I think some of those guys probably aren't growing as dense of a canopy as they could be. I consistently get over 3 ounces per sq/ft, my highest ever was 3.88 ounces per sq/ft and that was with my old citizen cobs that I've since retired for veg lights. I have a couple different grows but the one pictured is about 40 watts per sq/ft with about 70 samsung lm561c PCB's and the total canopy area is about 8x12, 48 plants, 7" pots with a coco/rockwool mix DTW.

Before defoliation day 19
before 1.jpegbefore 2.jpegbefore 3.jpeg

After (same day/day 19)
after1.jpegafter2.jpegafter3.jpegafter4.jpegafter5.jpeg
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Oh the horror. Lol
im A leaf plucker too.
Gorgeous grow room sir. What kind of equipment are you running? I defoliate 1-2x in veg depending on how long I veg them for. Then one defoliation at the 12/12 flip to nurture developing flower sites covered by large fan leaves. A final light defoliation at week 3. Most strains are still producing vegetative growth up to the 3rd week of flower before all of the plant's energy goes into flower development. That's why I do a light stripping at week 3. It's basically just a fine tuning to ensure all of those nurtured flower sites from the first leaf strip at the 12/12 flip continue to have unhindered light access. I wasn't a believer until I tried it. The only people that knock defoliation are the ones who have never attempted it. Disregard the uninformed and inexperienced for they know not the error of their ways :)


Your growth is lush and absolutely gorgeous. Can I be nosey and ask what kind of fertilizer you're running? I've been running GH's maxi line for the last 2 years and recently tried jack's 5-12-26 for the second time. I've had a bit of trouble getting it dialed in though. To ensure a successful harvest I switched back to the maxi bloom, but I haven't given up on jack's 5-12-26. I'm going to use it on my next cycle of vegging plants and in the clone reservoir. If all goes well then they'll stay on jack's through flower. Any issues and back to maxi I go. I keep going back to look at your photos. You assembled a very tidy lovely grow room there. I've got a journal going here tracking my veg nurseries and flower room. Subbed! Can't wait to see the development closer to harvest.
 
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UpstateRecGrower

Well-Known Member
Gorgeous grow room sir. What kind of equipment are you running? I defoliate 1-2x in veg depending on how long I veg them for. Then one defoliation at the 12/12 flip to nurture developing flower sites covered by large fan leaves. A final light defoliation at week 3. Most strains are still producing vegetative growth up to the 3rd week of flower before all of the plant's energy goes into flower development. That's why I do a light stripping at week 3. It's basically just a fine tuning to ensure all of those nurtured flower sites from the first leaf strip at the 12/12 flip continue to have unhindered light access. I wasn't a believer until I tried it. The only people that knock defoliation are the ones who have never attempted it. Disregard the uninformed and inexperienced for they know not the error of their ways :)


Your growth is lush and absolutely gorgeous. Can I be nosey and ask what kind of fertilizer you're running? I've been running GH's maxi line for the last 2 years and recently tried jack's 5-12-26 for the second time. I've had a bit of trouble getting it dialed in though. To ensure a successful harvest I switched back to the maxi bloom, but I haven't given up on jack's 5-12-26. I'm going to use it on my next cycle of vegging plants and in the clone reservoir. If all goes well then they'll stay on jack's through flower. Any issues and back to maxi I go. I keep going back to look at your photos. You assembled a very tidy lovely grow room there. I've got a journal going here tracking my veg nurseries and flower room. Subbed! Can't wait to see the development closer to harvest.
Thanks! So for lighting I am using Alibaba lm561c boards and meanwell drivers at about 40 watts per square foot. Solacure UVB bulbs. Sealed room with CO2 set at 1200. I use dosatrons and mix my own nutrients. If you can tell me how much maxibloom you were using and if you were adding anything else to it I can tell you how much jacks and calcium nitrate and epsom salt to mix to match it, or I could tell you how i would use it too..
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Thanks! So for lighting I am using Alibaba lm561c boards and meanwell drivers at about 40 watts per square foot. Solacure UVB bulbs. Sealed room with CO2 set at 1200. I use dosatrons and mix my own nutrients. If you can tell me how much maxibloom you were using and if you were adding anything else to it I can tell you how much jacks and calcium nitrate and epsom salt to mix to match it, or I could tell you how i would use it too..
Your room and lights sound beautiful! I hope to have my room sealed with a mini split and co2 by next spring. I'll be doing back flips just to have the mini with heat so I can dump this space hogging horribly inefficient portable AC unit :)

I use 5g/gallon of maxi bloom with 1.6g calcium nitrate and 1.1g epsom salt PH adjusted to 5.8. I shoot for 775-850ppm with RO water. I greatly appreciate the assistance.
 

UpstateRecGrower

Well-Known Member
Your room and lights sound beautiful! I hope to have my room sealed with a mini split and co2 by next spring. I'll be doing back flips just to have the mini with heat so I can dump this space hogging horribly inefficient portable AC unit :)

I use 5g/gallon of maxi bloom with 1.6g calcium nitrate and 1.1g epsom salt PH adjusted to 5.8. I shoot for 775-850ppm with RO water. I greatly appreciate the assistance.
5-12-26 (2.6g)
Calcium N (2.3g)
Epsom Salt (1.2g)
That will pretty much match the elemental ppm you are at except Calcium, your calcium will be about 30ppm less (115ppm vs 145ppm), you could get MKP and do it like this:
5-12-26 (2g)
Calcium N (2.6g)
Epsom Salt (1.5g)
MKP (.5g)
This matches you elemental ppm but the calcium is still a little lower but only by about 15ppm (130ppm vs 145ppm) 130ppm is plenty. Even the previous ratio that gives you 115ppm is honestly enough.. But if it were me I would use the formulation with the MKP and use .3 in veg and .7 in bloom and drop the calcium nirate to 2.2 in bloom also.
 

Arkos

Well-Known Member
Lovely room and plants great work man, thanks for the insight into the feeding schedule always interesting to read about other people's experiences.
 

piratebug

Well-Known Member
Wow, 70 boards in a 8 x 12, that's insane! I only use 36 in that same size area, 12 x 320(s), 2880 watts total! But your grow looks incredible, so props to you!
 

Iceman8700

Active Member
5-12-26 (2.6g)
Calcium N (2.3g)
Epsom Salt (1.2g)
That will pretty much match the elemental ppm you are at except Calcium, your calcium will be about 30ppm less (115ppm vs 145ppm), you could get MKP and do it like this:
5-12-26 (2g)
Calcium N (2.6g)
Epsom Salt (1.5g)
MKP (.5g)
This matches you elemental ppm but the calcium is still a little lower but only by about 15ppm (130ppm vs 145ppm) 130ppm is plenty. Even the previous ratio that gives you 115ppm is honestly enough.. But if it were me I would use the formulation with the MKP and use .3 in veg and .7 in bloom and drop the calcium nirate to 2.2 in bloom also.
Hey UpstateRecGrower!
Been going through hell trying to figure the best ratios for coco and suffering from calcium deficiency. Thank you so much for sharing your data.I finally know I can successfully grow in coco and sleep in peace. Respect bro!
Killer setup and pics....
 
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UpstateRecGrower

Well-Known Member
Hey UpstateRecGrower!
Been going through hell trying to figure the best ratios for coco and suffering from calcium deficiency. Thank you so much for sharing your data.I finally know I can successfully grow in coco and sleep in peace. Respect bro!
Killer setup and pics....
I’m actually having a Ca deficiency in bloom, I’m not watering to as much runoff as usual either so it could be due to that, a friend of mine mixes in a cup of gypsum per gallon of coco I might try it at some point.
 

Iceman8700

Active Member
I’m actually having a Ca deficiency in bloom, I’m not watering to as much runoff as usual either so it could be due to that, a friend of mine mixes in a cup of gypsum per gallon of coco I might try it at some point.
Your Ca in bloom is 110ppm. I knew it was quite less. Mine is at 138ppm in veg and 129ppm in bloom...should be safe I suppose...;)
 
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