Detroit Comes Begging ....

[TheBrutalTruth]

A shitty place to work,you gotta be shitting me ?

You come off as if 60K a year is some kinda high falutin income,you must be very young because 60k a year wouldnt afford the average american the ability to own a decent home & car & still have the ability to have any kinda life .

So lets see,you ripped off the company for years by doing zero work,made a personal choice to do non job related school work instead of the job they paid you to do,used all the sick time you could possibly use for reasons that had nothing to do with being sick,recieved & accepted illegal paychecks after you quit,left slanderous messages on your company voice mail.

All of that was a unions fault how ?

You are surely very young,if you hate unions so bad then enjoy an entire lifetime of being replaced by lower paid & higher qualified personal who are just dieing to make you look bad at your job so they can look good,then when you've been replaced a half dozen times & try to retire you'll get the big suprise,that bullshit 401k plan you thought your non union employer was contributing heavily to wont pay your cost of living.

Loafers & milk duds are whats bad for business not unions,strange how you fell right inline with the worst that any union has to offer, then bitch about the lack of quality workmanship you were allowed to perform.

Well, if we are going to bitch about unions, here's a story that was relayed to me by some coworkers who worked at a union shop. Apparently, at this union shop, which was a tech company, workers were not allowed to move their own computer monitors (not even reposition them) with out filling out paperwork so that some one from tech support would come and move the monitor for them.

So in addition to enforcing laziness on their workers. The union rules also forced people to fill out pointless paperwork, and wait hours, if not days, for something that would have taken them a minute or two to fix for themselves in the first damn place.

Yes, unions did do a lot of good, but now they are becoming nothing more than an over-valued burden onto society. Their goodness ended, in, I don't know about the late 60's early 70's when they stopped advocating for employees and starting advocating for just union employees.

What's more is that it is absurd to think that Unions can justify their existence when they demand union dues that are taken out of every employees paycheck to feed some fat cat at the top of the union structure, that probably sits around doing nothing but wondering how best to screw over the deluded fools that believe he has their best interests at heart.

Yes, unions did build the middle class, but because of their refusal to realize that there are limits to how far they can justifiably go they are now destroying the middle class in the United States.

Sic semper tyrannis. ironically, the unions have become tyrants, after years of fighting the same.

 

[panhead]

Well, if we are going to bitch about unions, here's a story that was relayed to me by some coworkers who worked at a union shop. Apparently, at this union shop, which was a tech company, workers were not allowed to move their own computer monitors (not even reposition them) with out filling out paperwork so that some one from tech support would come and move the monitor for them.

So in addition to enforcing laziness on their workers. The union rules also forced people to fill out pointless paperwork, and wait hours, if not days, for something that would have taken them a minute or two to fix for themselves in the first damn place.

Yes, unions did do a lot of good, but now they are becoming nothing more than an over-valued burden onto society. Their goodness ended, in, I don't know about the late 60's early 70's when they stopped advocating for employees and starting advocating for just union employees.

What's more is that it is absurd to think that Unions can justify their existence when they demand union dues that are taken out of every employees paycheck to feed some fat cat at the top of the union structure, that probably sits around doing nothing but wondering how best to screw over the deluded fools that believe he has their best interests at heart.

Yes, unions did build the middle class, but because of their refusal to realize that there are limits to how far they can justifiably go they are now destroying the middle class in the United States.

Sic semper tyrannis. ironically, the unions have become tyrants, after years of fighting the same.

Your post is filled with 100% conjecture & rumor,zero 1st hand experience which equates to 100% bullshit,you shouldnt speak of issues & proclaim them as bad going on rumor that was related to you by others,then take it upon yourself to proclaim as if all union officials are fat cats ripping off their membership.

I could point out alot of different things that union dues go to subsidise which benifit the worker,like "sub pay" which is a fixed amount of money to be paid weekly to the member should he be laid off.

If you think your boss or company owner is going to pay you one red cent more than he has to your dreaming,99% of the non union shops in this country take advantage of paying lower wages,less insurance coverage,bullshit 401k plans that they know full well the employee base is too under paid to be able to take full advantage of employer contributions to cost them much money.

Another interesting item is this,for all the bitching/whining & crying non union people do about how much union members are getting paid you'd think that non union companies would have a massive advantage over union shops when bidding for work,this is not the case,non union shops charge just as much for the work/product they provide as union shops only with a much larger share of the profit going to management & the corporation,the bid amounts of non union shops directly reflect that they charge just as much for work being done so where are the profits going ?

You my friend have fallen victim to decades of non stop propaganda fed to you by corporate non union america in order to make unions look bad.

In the face of this nations worst economic crisis in decades when you watch the tv news which type corporations do you see being exposed for giving away million dollar bonuses to their ceo's & sending management personal on luxury vacations while the company is going bankrupt at taxpayers expense,all non union my friend.

Your veiws that you've been taught to believe are not without purposefull intent,the average wage in this country is at its lowest in decades,this generation of worker is the 1st since the depression that can expect to make less money & work more hours to make ends meet than his fathers generation.

You hate unions, then enjoy all the time you and your wife will be spending at work just trying to make ends meet,gone are the days of the single working adult in the home & welcome in the days of struggling couples who both work full time low paying jobs,gone are the days of the financially stable family home with savings in the bank,your now part of the modern family who's going to be in debt their entire lives & never be able to work enough hours to become debt free.

 

[Dfunk]

Damn...now that's brutal.

 

[tipsgnob]

I have a picture of my grandfather from 1910 and in the picture are 8 kids from 8 to 12 years old. they are all holding up their hands up to show their missing fingers, some with 1 finger missing and some with all their fingers missing.
they lived in a town where a sawmill was the main employer, the sawmill employed most of the town.
long story short: the union came in and unionized the sawmill. no more 8 to 12 year olds working, safety equipment etc.
when my grandfather turned 18 he wanted to go back to work at the sawmill, but the 3 fingers he was missing from his right hand kept him from working there. the union paid for my grandfather to go to college and law school. in 1942 he became the governor of a southern state.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Your post is filled with 100% conjecture & rumor,zero 1st hand experience which equates to 100% bullshit,you shouldnt speak of issues & proclaim them as bad going on rumor that was related to you by others,then take it upon yourself to proclaim as if all union officials are fat cats ripping off their membership.

I could point out alot of different things that union dues go to subsidise which benifit the worker,like "sub pay" which is a fixed amount of money to be paid weekly to the member should he be laid off.

If you think your boss or company owner is going to pay you one red cent more than he has to your dreaming,99% of the non union shops in this country take advantage of paying lower wages,less insurance coverage,bullshit 401k plans that they know full well the employee base is too under paid to be able to take full advantage of employer contributions to cost them much money.

Another interesting item is this,for all the bitching/whining & crying non union people do about how much union members are getting paid you'd think that non union companies would have a massive advantage over union shops when bidding for work,this is not the case,non union shops charge just as much for the work/product they provide as union shops only with a much larger share of the profit going to management & the corporation,the bid amounts of non union shops directly reflect that they charge just as much for work being done so where are the profits going ?

You my friend have fallen victim to decades of non stop propaganda fed to you by corporate non union america in order to make unions look bad.

In the face of this nations worst economic crisis in decades when you watch the tv news which type corporations do you see being exposed for giving away million dollar bonuses to their ceo's & sending management personal on luxury vacations while the company is going bankrupt at taxpayers expense,all non union my friend.

Your veiws that you've been taught to believe are not without purposefull intent,the average wage in this country is at its lowest in decades,this generation of worker is the 1st since the depression that can expect to make less money & work more hours to make ends meet than his fathers generation.

You hate unions, then enjoy all the time you and your wife will be spending at work just trying to make ends meet,gone are the days of the single working adult in the home & welcome in the days of struggling couples who both work full time low paying jobs,gone are the days of the financially stable family home with savings in the bank,your now part of the modern family who's going to be in debt their entire lives & never be able to work enough hours to become debt free.

Panhead, perhaps you should stop slamming people about conjecture, and bullshit, and keep your mouth closed when spouting the same.

What was that you said, something about it being 100% bullshit.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Then there's the question, of how much money do unions waste on political campaigns?

How many millions of dollars do they waste trying to force everyone to join them. Clearly if unions were all that they were cracked up to be, people would be joining them of their own free will.

That's clearly not the case, because union membership has been dwindling for the last 30+ years.

The only place that is still strongly unionized are state workers.

Teachers, Firefighters, Police,

Yeah, I'm sure they love the fact that the union continuously does the whining that they are always doing on their behalf, too.

Tipsgnob, the problem isn't that the unions are bad, the problem is that they are going too far.

There are some limits to what is good, and then limits to what is going too far. The unions have routinely gone beyond those limits, and seek to get more, more and more.

What is the recent cut in pay that the unions agreed to take at the Big 3. They reduced their pay to what, $14/hr? Versus the Non-unionized Factories owned by foreign competitors in the United States that are probably still happily paying $18 - $24/hr because they don't have the same burden and legacy costs that the Big 3 do.

Of course, the Union, did do a little to take the Legacy Costs off of the Big 3, so perhaps they aren't all bad, but when it comes to restricting people from moving their own computer monitors, because there is a unionized employee that is responsible for that, they are going too far.

 

[tipsgnob]

TBT, it's because of the unions that foreign car makers pay such high wages. when they came to the US they had to compete with the union factories for employees.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

TBT, it's because of the unions that foreign car makers pay such high wages. when they came to the US they had to compete with the union factories for employees.

Yeah, that is true.

Unions do a lot of good, but there are limits to doing good, and just being obstructionist pains in the ass that create useless or unnecessary positions.

 

[medicineman]

The unions built the middle class and Republicans are dismanteling it. Union shops are more professional and demand more out of their workers than non union shops. I'll agree that some unions like the UAW are a little out of control, but as I've postulated before, if the government took over medical and relieved corporations from sholdering that burden, there would be a lot more money for the corporations to pull their heads out, stop with the multi-million buck salaries and make those CEOs earn their duckets, and they could compete with Toyota and the Foriegn mfgrs. People that have never worked union have no clue as to what the unions do or don't do. The teamster union I worked for just before I retired had some real assholes in it, but they held managements feet to the fire for the employees and the company I worked for was the most profitable in the city of all the concrete companies, including those scab motherfuckers, IE non-union shops. Those scab motherfuckers made decent wages because of us but wouldn't join the union. Nothing worse than a fucking scab.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

The unions built the middle class and Republicans are dismanteling it. Union shops are more professional and demand more out of their workers than non union shops. I'll agree that some unions like the UAW are a little out of control, but as I've postulated before, if the government took over medical and relieved corporations from sholdering that burden, there would be a lot more money for the corporations to pull their heads out, stop with the multi-million buck salaries and make those CEOs earn their duckets, and they could compete with Toyota and the Foriegn mfgrs. People that have never worked union have no clue as to what the unions do or don't do. The teamster union I worked for just before I retired had some real assholes in it, but they held managements feet to the fire for the employees and the company I worked for was the most profitable in the city of all the concrete companies, including those scab motherfuckers, IE non-union shops.

The only problem is that I don't want the government trying to take care of me, and then reaching into my wallet for more money so it can add another two people that I don't know into the equation when it determines what it charges me for taxes.

Let me take care of myself, and let people who need help ASK for it instead of DEMANDING it.

The different between voluntary assistance and coercement is a mile wide.

Of course, I personally dislike charities. Seems screwy to me when they can lock up massive amounts of wealth tax free while no one else can do that. If they are truly non-profit why do they need massive amounts of stocks, bonds, gold, and money locked up in a vault?

Seems to me that the only difference between a Non-Profit and a For Profit is that a For Profit produces useful goods and services, and a Non-Profit takes them and distributes them with out producing them.

I wonder how much money is given to non-profits every year untaxed.

Probably enough to pay an insane amount of taxes.

 

[medicineman]

The only problem is that I don't want the government trying to take care of me, and then reaching into my wallet for more money so it can add another two people that I don't know into the equation when it determines what it charges me for taxes.

Let me take care of myself, and let people who need help ASK for it instead of DEMANDING it.

The different between voluntary assistance and coercement is a mile wide.

Of course, I personally dislike charities. Seems screwy to me when they can lock up massive amounts of wealth tax free while no one else can do that. If they are truly non-profit why do they need massive amounts of stocks, bonds, gold, and money locked up in a vault?

Seems to me that the only difference between a Non-Profit and a For Profit is that a For Profit produces useful goods and services, and a Non-Profit takes them and distributes them with out producing them.

I wonder how much money is given to non-profits every year untaxed.

Probably enough to pay an insane amount of taxes.

I also don't trust charities. Seems the people getting the most help are the ones running the charity.
That's why I am for government health care and welfare. Please don't confuse me with a person that likes to give my money away without some good coming out of it. I truly believe there would be mass starvation in this country without food stamps. There would be single mothers with their children on the street this winter without welfare. Government can do this job and with enough Auditors in place, can do it better than any charity. What we need is jobs. Under Bush a few million jobs have been lost. those jobs need to be brought back. we need a manufacturing base for the middle class. We are now a financial based economy and you can see what that has and is doing to our country. The percentage of Mfgr to financial was like 25 to 12 and now it is 12 to 25 percentage of gross economy, every nation that has slipped to this ratio has collapsed. We are on the cusp. If we don't get our Mfgr. base back, it's good bye America. PS this is the canary in the coal mine scenario.

 

[tipsgnob]

The only problem is that I don't want the government trying to take care of me, and then reaching into my wallet for more money so it can add another two people that I don't know into the equation when it determines what it charges me for taxes.

Let me take care of myself, and let people who need help ASK for it instead of DEMANDING it.

The different between voluntary assistance and coercement is a mile wide.

Of course, I personally dislike charities. Seems screwy to me when they can lock up massive amounts of wealth tax free while no one else can do that. If they are truly non-profit why do they need massive amounts of stocks, bonds, gold, and money locked up in a vault?

Seems to me that the only difference between a Non-Profit and a For Profit is that a For Profit produces useful goods and services, and a Non-Profit takes them and distributes them with out producing them.

I wonder how much money is given to non-profits every year untaxed.

Probably enough to pay an insane amount of taxes.

what non-profits are you refering to?

 

[panhead]

Panhead, perhaps you should stop slamming people about conjecture, and bullshit, and keep your mouth closed when spouting the same.

What was that you said, something about it being 100% bullshit.

There is a world of difference between my comments on unions & yours.

My comments are based on over 30 years 1st hand experience in dealing with unions,both as a due's paying union member & as white collar management (the position i currently hold) of a 100 plus million dollar a year union shop.

Your comments are based on what again ? Oh,now i remember,shit you've heard then chose to repeat as truth because you've heard it.

Reading your other posts in this thread it's once again easy to see how very little you know about union's & their orginizing efforts,you go on about how much money unions waste on political campains like it's an evil act , what you fail to realize or admit is this,the amount spent by unions is a drop in the bucket compared to what the National Right To Work Lobby spends each year trying to buy political influence & bust unions .

Then you go on to say if unions are so great why arent people joining them & point to it as a sign of unions being evil,to me this type anti union rehetoric sounds very much like the same speech's given to workers by anti union management in the 1930'sboth are without merit.

I say people arent joining unions because their afraid for their jobs if they join & with the current right to work laws being jammed up our asses there wont be a damm thing an employee can do when he's terminated for union membership.

 

[tipsgnob]

there no telling how much walmart spends fighting the unions...and the unions have never officially targeted walmart.
tennessee is a right to work state, so companies like kroger only hire part time employees. they figure if people aren't working full time they can't afford union dues.

 

[panhead]

there no telling how much walmart spends fighting the unions...and the unions have never officially targeted walmart.
tennessee is a right to work state, so companies like kroger only hire part time employees. they figure if people aren't working full time they can't afford union dues.

Speaking of Walmart,a little known fact here,if at all possible Walmart tries to hire union conmtractors EXCLUSIVELY to erect their buildings.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

I think that seals it. It makes sense to bail out the Big 3.

Though I think the $25 Billion should be expanded to $50 Billion with the extra $25 Billion split in half, with half going to education grants, and the other half going to encouraging small non-auto related manufacturers to expand.

There is no logic in having the entire area remain vulnerable to the collapse of the Big 3.

 

[medicineman]

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

I think that seals it. It makes sense to bail out the Big 3.

Though I think the $25 Billion should be expanded to $50 Billion with the extra $25 Billion split in half, with half going to education grants, and the other half going to encouraging small non-auto related manufacturers to expand.

There is no logic in having the entire area remain vulnerable to the collapse of the Big 3.

How about making the taxpayer a shareholder in GM, or any corporations that get bailouts? I'm sure there would be a way to divide it up, and that task would create jobs in itself. If you accept bail out monies, you must open a stock account issuing shares in the amount of taxpayers. If there are 200 million taxpayers and you get 2 billion, each share would be worth 10 bucks. Each person that pays taxes, or at least files gets 1 share for each 2 billion bucks loaned, 2 hundred billion bucks loaned, each shareholder gets a hundred shares. Sounds fair to me. Of course these shares would have to be held a reasonable time, say 3 years, before you could cash them in. So if the shares started out at 10 bucks and grew to 40-60 bucks, a taxpayer could end up with a tidy little sum. If the company went under, the taxpayer would be no worse off than if this program had never been created. What say you?

 

[ViRedd]

^^^^ Why not just call your stock broker? A couple of weeks ago, GM was trading for around $4 a share.

Vi

 

[medicineman]

^^^^ Why not just call your stock broker? A couple of weeks ago, GM was trading for around $4 a share.

Vi

Because it is now trading for 3.02 and unless the bailout does some good, will be trading way below that. I mean, it is us, the "taxpayers" ,that are bailing out these incompetent assholes, shouldn't we get to have an interest in those companies that take the money?

 

[ViRedd]

Because it is now trading for 3.02 and unless the bailout does some good, will be trading way below that. I mean, it is us, the "taxpayers" ,that are bailing out these incompetent assholes, shouldn't we get to have an interest in those companies that take the money?

Well, why not? It looks like we're going to have to bailout American Express with taxpayer dollars too. Hey, I wonder if I called AMEX and asked them to apply some of my taxes they're getting to my account balance ... would they listen?

Vi