kwigybo88
Well-Known Member
Right but most people do not buy seeds to resell or collect them. They buy them to grow them.
Seed Junkie Genetics
- Thread starter higher self
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AaronHernadez
Well-Known Member
The markets still there it doesn’t matter if you grow, resell or let them collect dust. If you have a good or a service why wouldn’t you try to maximize your profits? You are totally reaching on those examples as well. If you bought a pack of SeedJunky gear for $300 and decided to resell it at any point, are you going to just pop a 50 dollar premium on them or are you going to look around a bit and see what that particular pack is going for that time ?
colocowboy
Well-Known Member
My dude, a thing is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It may be stupid but it’s a thing.
kwigybo88
Well-Known Member
Because it's unethical to price gouge. You either have to be cool with price gouging or rephrase your position. It cant be both.
kwigybo88
Well-Known Member
You can keep repeating that but it doesn't address the counter-arguments.
AaronHernadez
Well-Known Member
I think price gouging necessities is unethical not a pack of wedding cake f2s
kwigybo88
Well-Known Member
Right but if someone buys a pack at a 2000% mark up you'll laugh at them whilst simultaneously saying "well that's the market working"? Yeah I don't think so.
At what point do you actually factor the quality of the product into an assessment of what it should be worth? Apparently never.....
Aheadatime
Well-Known Member
You're not getting that 'worth' is a flexible, subjective, and abstract concept. Markets exist to define worth. This is dictated by supply and demand. If somebody buys it at a high price, it was worth that high price. Arbitrarily saying "well it only took that guy one harvest to grow those seeds, and seeds don't "feel" like they're worth alot to me, so they should be some arbitrarily cheap price that I dictate" is absurd. We can't just come together and create "fair" prices for everything. Well, we sort of can.. that's what free markets do.
If you grow a strain that takes longer to grow, use nutrients that are more expensive than the next brand, use more electricity than the next guy because you live in a hot climate, take your sweet ass time hand trimming every nug to perfection, refuse to use PGRs, refuse to distribute smaller nugs because you respect your final product, and package up your material in fancy glass jars with holographic scratch-and-sniff labels, and some punk kid who knows nothing about what time and effort is worth, how markets work, or how privileged we are to live in a capitalist economy comes along and say "40 an eighth? pfft, weed is only worth 25 an eighth, tops", that kid can fuck off. There's cheaper options for exactly his state of mind, granted by the gift of a capitalist economy. Due to the free competition that is the free market, there are also growers who use bottom of the barrel inputs, ram their stuff through trim machines, save time by not drying properly, use janky little sandwhich baggies to distribute, and who harvest early to save electricity and time. These guys can swoop in and save the day by offering that 25$ eighth. Not because weed is "worth"25, but because that's all it's worth to the kid and to that grower. Because again, "worth" is flexible.
People pay thousands of dollars for autographs. "But dude, that's just ink and paper LOL!" Yeah, but it's also fucking inspiring to have a hand written note by somebody who has deeply inspired you. That's "worth" alot to some people. Breeders play hype games and push the limits on cost, for sure, and some of that is more visible with certain companies. But vaguely complaining about a seed's worth is ridiculous. Just reach for the cheaper options, and if you're so upset with businesses having certain practices, then join the market brother! Start breeding the fire and selling it for 20$ a pack. You'll be helping alot of people get access to better genes who otherwise couldn't afford it.
kwigybo88
Well-Known Member
Is this some sort of dogma that is taught in schools where you people come from? Markets do not account for consumer misinformation nor do they account for externalities.
I didn't "arbitrarily" say anything like that. lol in your first paragraph you said worth is abstract. I'm saying it should be dictated by quality of the product, primarily, and yet you claim I'm the one being arbitrary? Are you joking?
*shakes head......You literally just used an example where quality was the determining factor in how price should be assessed. Are you even sure you know what you're arguing against here? Dude, you're misinterpreting what I've written. We're not talking about chalk and cheese. We're talking about you have fire, and I have fire and I sell mine at double the price of yours because a bunch of chad's on instagram and social media said it's better.
I didn't vaguely complain about a seed's worth. I said some people sell overpriced shit and a lot of people buy it for a variety of reasons, none of which really have anything to do with the quality of the product. What are you not getting here?
Dividedsky
Well-Known Member
I agree with you, there is a thing called business ethics...but all the doesn't mean shit in a bullish capitalism society that we live in. In a way consumers do have more power with internet shopping being mainstream.
kwigybo88
Well-Known Member
In some ways yeah. In others no. The internet is a very double-edged sword because it opens so many more avenues for businesses to delude people with advertising.
slacker140
Well-Known Member
I don't know that it's price gouging since the price of all seeds are not being artificially augmented. It's just one or select few breeders. It's not like you can't just pick another breeders seeds and grow cannabis that meets your needs. They're not holding anything hostage. It's not like they have the cure to cancer and nobody else can provide it. But there sure seems to be a segment of the population that has way too much money for them to be paying 500-1,000 for a single pack of seeds. Or must be a commercial operation that can make that money back on the same hype. I mean, is it price gouging if just one brand of water decides to charge $50 a gallon for their ultra special premium water and tell you it makes you more pure? No, just pick another water, there's not a bottled water shortage.
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kwigybo88
Well-Known Member
Right but scarcity is not a prerequisite of price gouging. If you make Gelato 33 S1's for 100 bucks a clone and i make them for 1000 bucks the people who buy mine are being unquestionably gouged.
Incidentally this is not a hypothetical. Its happening.
kwigybo88
Well-Known Member
To be clear tho, im not saying Seed Junky is price gouging. I only mentioned it to show the absurdity of the notion that anything bought and sold must've been done so at a "fair price."
I just think breeders like him are way overpriced. Nobody is going to convince me that his seeds are three to four times better than Karma, Dynasty, CSI etc. Its hype.
I just think breeders like him are way overpriced. Nobody is going to convince me that his seeds are three to four times better than Karma, Dynasty, CSI etc. Its hype.
colocowboy
Well-Known Member
It’s not my fault you’re misrepresenting the situation! Price gouging assumes that it’s a good or service that is required that you have to buy at a high price and have no choice, like electricity!
You have alternative product choices with the same genetics even, where do you get the idea that until you get a tell people what they can charge for their goods or services? Open a book!
slacker140
Well-Known Member
"The term is similar to profiteering but can be distinguished by being short-term and localized and by being restricted to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life and property."
Sounds more like you think we should have a regulated seed market with a regulatory authority able to put price caps on a seed. I do not think this falls into the category of price gouging. It is not temporary and is not an essential item. You can easily get medicine without a seed at a reasonable price. Ridiculous to a home grower with no market resell yes. But not price gouging. It is a seller responding to demand.
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slacker140
Well-Known Member
But even ridiculous to a home grower might not even be accurate. If an individual home grower buys premium connoisseur cannabis for $400 an ounce. Which in my area happens every day at multiple retail outlets. A single $500 or even $1000 pack of seeds can pay itself back after an ounce or two. Make a clone and it can keep paying you back. Personally I'd never do that when I can buy alternatives for $60 that are just as good for me and I can spend the savings on something else I fancy more, but I also wouldn't pay $400 for an ounce either.
Aheadatime
Well-Known Member
My bad if my previous post came off as hostile. I'm not angry about you or your thoughts. But austrian economics is a topic I'm passionate about.
Price gouging refers to dramatically raising the price of necessities like food, water, toiletries, and utilities in times of great need, which I agree is unethical. Buying a rare item on release day, and auctioning it off on ebay for a higher price later is normal, and not immoral at all. It's not immoral because we have free will and economic liberty in this country, so you can just not buy the damn thing. If enough people don't buy the damn thing, the guy who does that will stop doing it, because he's wasting money investing in a practice that doesn't pay out. If people do buy from him, then his market niche is working, and thus is 'worth' it. Worth is dictated by free will, people voluntarily exchanging money for goods.
What we're being taught in schools where "us people" come from is being degraded over time. We used to be taught austrian economics, for the most part. Markets are representations of people's will, time, capacity, and desire. People want something, people supply it, the price gets negotiated through purchase power, life's good. Misinformation and "externalities"(?) are part of human nature. As the consumer, you have a responsibility to do your homework on what you buy, and place your dollars and your trust where you see fit.
Your argument implies it. To quote you on a few things;
"Fair and reasonable" is something you believe you have some vested power to dictate. What is fair and reasonable? Well, whatever the hell people think! It's arbitrary. If you truly understand this, your next quotes wouldn't be here. Whether you realize it or not, you are displaying a thought pattern that value is somehow measurable, that you can somehow or another come to a "fair" price point for things, which isn't true. What's fair is what the consumers agree to pay. If it's too expensive, they don't pay, and thus the producer lowers costs. That's it. Nothing else is "fair". It's all arbitrary.
"Actual value" doesn't exist. It's all perceived. Markets are voluntary.
Again, the display that somehow you can dictate what things are worth. I wouldn't pay that, but many people would, and thus, it was worth it. How very arrogant of you to claim that something can't be artistically worth alot of money to somebody just because it's not to you.
This is also arrogant, because you're patronizing the customer who will pay that much, based on the reflection of your thoughts and values. If somebody wants that strain, and has tons of money laying around, and it's worth it to them, that's that. Your income is yours dude lol. Some people make 6 figures, some people make 7 figures. 5,000 is change to them. Claiming you're taking advantage of that person is to talk down to their own sense of value. Again, value is arbitrary. Americans pay more in foreign lands for street food, but we don't give a shit, because it costs us 2$ in our currency instead of 1.20$. If a native made a big fuss that I was being ripped off and called me stupid for paying the extra 80 cents, I'd just walk away, completely and totally apathetic, because 80 cents has no value to me. Because, again, value is arbitrary.
Price gouging refers to dramatically raising the price of necessities like food, water, toiletries, and utilities in times of great need, which I agree is unethical. Buying a rare item on release day, and auctioning it off on ebay for a higher price later is normal, and not immoral at all. It's not immoral because we have free will and economic liberty in this country, so you can just not buy the damn thing. If enough people don't buy the damn thing, the guy who does that will stop doing it, because he's wasting money investing in a practice that doesn't pay out. If people do buy from him, then his market niche is working, and thus is 'worth' it. Worth is dictated by free will, people voluntarily exchanging money for goods.
That post exemplified that price is arbitrary, not based on quality. The guy who grew really tenderly and slowly didn't get paid out in the end. Because the market didn't ask for it, because the market is based on people and their complex natures, and chose price point over quality. The same way people pay low dollars without understanding the difference in quality, people pay top dollars without understanding the difference in quality. Quality isn't measurable or quantifiable, and it isn't the only factor which price gets measured against. Because again, the market is based on voluntary exchange, and people's different personalities, values, perceptions, hobbies, interests, incomes, etc., all play a role in that voluntary exchange.
Greybush7387
Well-Known Member
I just came for pics. But goddamn yall are arguin about some dumb shit.