Sarah Palin was worse than we thought...

[Doctor Pot]

Of course Obama is smart. He hinted for two months he might forego Federal Election Funding. It does not take a genius to read focus group data and realize you can break a pledge and get away with it.

You would have done the same thing. Obama had a choice to either go back on something he said six months ago or lose the greatest financial advantage a presidential candidate has ever had.

There was no situation to reverse. Obama did not reference the U.S.S. Forestal inicident because there was nothing to it. If there were any truth to the rumors, why would a compliant news media, with a proven anti-McCain bias, fail to report it? LOL!

Wow, classic logical fallacy here, namely "invalid assumption". The media didn't report on the Forestal incident. The media would surely report on anything that reflected negatively on McCain. Therefore, the Forestal incident would not have reflected negatively on McCain had the media brought it up. This pretzel of a logical argument essentially requires the media to have a liberal bias by definition.

How could you possibly know that when the mainstream news media did not do it's job and actually investigate Obama? If unsavory details have emerged about the Chosen One, they were relegated to the shadows and dismissed as Republican Propaganda.

I read pretty much everything I could on Obama. And I've heard plenty of Republican talking points, some of which was true but the vast majority of which was false.

Does Obama's own book constitute Right-wing opinion?
Was Barack Obama a Muslim? - article by Daniel Pipes

Barack Obama's Muslim Childhood
israelinsider: politics: Is Barack Obama a Muslim wolf in Christian wool?

Obama's book says he made faces during his Koranic studies class in Indonesia, therefore he must be a Muslim? That's the best you can do? In Indonesia, Islam is the dominant religion, and Koranic studies are taught in most schools. I went to Catholic grade school for a year. There were non-Catholic students there. They had to take the same religion classes and go to Mass like everyone else, but they didn't take communion or do the other sacraments. But it doesn't mean they were Catholic.

Many on the Left did not ignore reports based on unnamed sources regarding Governor Palin thinking Africa was a country rather than a continent.

Previously I read comments from the Left with a high degree of certainty as to the veracity of the hoax. What do you say?

The Associated Press: MSNBC retracts false Palin story; others duped

It would appear that many 'bullshit' detectors require calibration. LOL!

Ok, I admit this was widely reported despite being a hoax. This does occasionally happen, and the media admitted they were wrong afterwards. Just like they apologized after saying that Obama went to a "radical Madrassa" or that according to Islamic law, Obama would be considered a Muslim.

It is the journalists job to report. When it comes to Obama/Biden '08, they failed to meet their obligation as journalists.

It is not the job of the news reporter to determine this for the news consumer. I expect the candidates to receive equal scrutiny from responsible journalists.

You dodged the question. I'm not saying that the candidates shouldn't get equal scrutiny, or even that they didn't. However, if candidate A screws up, the media should report that. If candidate B does not make a similar caliber of mistake during that same time period, it is not the media's responsibility to generate a negative news story for candidate B to balance out the negative news story from candidate A. If candidate A makes ten huge mistakes and candidate B makes only one, there will and should be more negative news regarding candidate A.

The mainstream news media chose to sacrifice it's principles in order to guarantee the election for their candidate.

Perhaps it is simply inertia. Perhaps a fear of bucking the trend. The evidence of the bias is there. You are free to draw your own conclusions as to the reason.

Not all, but the sources I presented show a definite overall bias.

It is because the media is complicit. You don't see a problem with it because I imagine you intended to vote Obama/Biden all along. But the independent voters will realize sooner rather than later that they have been sold a bill of goods. Their anger at this betrayal by the journalists will be felt at the ballot boxes next mid-term election.

Many Republicans and other conservatives have a tendency toward self-delusion. If the news tells them something they do not want to hear, instead of listening anyway, they assume that the media is biased and that it is wrong. They only pay attention when the media tells them what they want to hear. They are so certain of the truth of their opinions that they decide whether a story is true or not, not based on its own merits, but whether or not it corroborates with their opinions. You seem to be doing a fair amount of this yourself.

 

[Picasso345]

A big pile of excuses is what I see. What happened to taking responsibility? The majority of America rejected McCain. You can stick to blaming Obama's rise to power on the media, but if that is going to be a strategy going forward then Democrats will maintain power for a good long while. Blaming the media is a sure way to keep right on losing.

And Palin was simply a bad choice. It is hard for moderates to take Republicans seriously when they insist on defending her as being a good pick. She wasn't. The folks who are doing the most to help the conservative cause are all of the Republicans have who have come forth and spoken the truth about her and why McCain made a very grave error in judgment.

McCain stuck to the Federal Funding because he authored campaign finance. He made a decision to abide by his pledge.

He broke a campaign promise, but who cares?

Yeah.... There are no special interests on the Left. LOL!
Obama's Ethics Rules Won't Ban Big Fundraisers From Transition - Bloomberg.com: News

Obama said the U.S. had 57 states. Imagine the uproar if Governor Palin had made that dumbass remark. It would be a continuous target of assault by the Left, even now. As it happened, the Chosen One said it and it was quickly forgotten.

I'll give him more consideration than the Left gave Governor Palin.

And Obama/Biden escaped the same level of scrutiny from 'legitimate' journalists. It is exactly the same scenario. That is my real gripe.

No one forced Obama to make the pledge.

I want to be clear. I do not fault Obama for forgoing Federal Election funding. I fault Obama for making a pledge then breaking it.

I am no fan of campaign finance reform. McCain-Feingold was only one reason why I did not embrace McCain when his nomination was locked in. He is a moderate Republican and not a true Conservative. Now that Obama has done this, Federal Election Funding is finished. No politician in his right mind will ever tie his hands behind his back, like McCain did, again.

Of course there is, but because we'll never see an audit on Obama's dirty foreign money. As such, we'll probably never know for sure. It does not matter because your guy won, right?

Of course Obama is smart. He hinted for two months he might forego Federal Election Funding. It does not take a genius to read focus group data and realize you can break a pledge and get away with it.

There was no situation to reverse. Obama did not reference the U.S.S. Forestal inicident because there was nothing to it. If there were any truth to the rumors, why would a compliant news media, with a proven anti-McCain bias, fail to report it? LOL!

How could you possibly know that when the mainstream news media did not do it's job and actually investigate Obama? If unsavory details have emerged about the Chosen One, they were relegated to the shadows and dismissed as Republican Propaganda.

Does Obama's own book constitute Right-wing opinion?
Was Barack Obama a Muslim? - article by Daniel Pipes

Barack Obama's Muslim Childhood
israelinsider: politics: Is Barack Obama a Muslim wolf in Christian wool?

Many on the Left did not ignore reports based on unnamed sources regarding Governor Palin thinking Africa was a country rather than a continent.

Previously I read comments from the Left with a high degree of certainty as to the veracity of the hoax. What do you say?

The Associated Press: MSNBC retracts false Palin story; others duped

It would appear that many 'bullshit' detectors require calibration. LOL!

It is the journalists job to report. When it comes to Obama/Biden '08, they failed to meet their obligation as journalists.

It is not the job of the news reporter to determine this for the news consumer. I expect the candidates to receive equal scrutiny from responsible journalists.

The mainstream news media chose to sacrifice it's principles in order to guarantee the election for their candidate.

Perhaps it is simply inertia. Perhaps a fear of bucking the trend. The evidence of the bias is there. You are free to draw your own conclusions as to the reason.

Not all, but the sources I presented show a definite overall bias.

It is because the media is complicit. You don't see a problem with it because I imagine you intended to vote Obama/Biden all along. But the independent voters will realize sooner rather than later that they have been sold a bill of goods. Their anger at this betrayal by the journalists will be felt at the ballot boxes next mid-term election.

**********************
Enjoy your folie à plusieurs regarding Governor Palin. You may fire when ready.

 

[Johnnyorganic]

You would have done the same thing. Obama had a choice to either go back on something he said six months ago or lose the greatest financial advantage a presidential candidate has ever had.

I would not have made the pledge in the first place.

Wow, classic logical fallacy here, namely "invalid assumption". The media didn't report on the Forestal incident. The media would surely report on anything that reflected negatively on McCain. Therefore, the Forestal incident would not have reflected negatively on McCain had the media brought it up. This pretzel of a logical argument essentially requires the media to have a liberal bias by definition.

The U.S.S. Forrestal incident took place 41 years ago. An exhaustive Navy investigation followed. Maintenance issues related to stray electrical charges and old armaments were cited as the probable cause.

John McCain is a known quantity. He first appeared in politics in 1982. Since then he served two terms in the House of Representative, has won election to the Senate four times, and run for President twice so far (LOL!). Ample time and opportunity for a serious investigative inquiry to determine he was more than what he was: a pilot in his warplane awaiting launch from the catapult.

In fact, I have asked many people who bring up this event for some evidence. In return I get a link to a swift-boat wannabe website with only one unnamed source. If you are intent in your belief of this accusation that he was responsible, surely you could do better than that.

I read pretty much everything I could on Obama. And I've heard plenty of Republican talking points, some of which was true but the vast majority of which was false.

Obama's book says he made faces during his Koranic studies class in Indonesia, therefore he must be a Muslim? That's the best you can do? In Indonesia, Islam is the dominant religion, and Koranic studies are taught in most schools. I went to Catholic grade school for a year. There were non-Catholic students there. They had to take the same religion classes and go to Mass like everyone else, but they didn't take communion or do the other sacraments. But it doesn't mean they were Catholic.

You did not attend Catholic school in Indonesia, but that is just a guess on my part. When he did attend Catholic school, his religion was listed as Muslim. I repeat my previous quote.

Indonesian students in his day attended religious classes according to their faith.

Obama was born a Muslim. It's true. You may disagree, but you do not make that determination.

Ask any Muslim and they will tell you. If Daddy is a Muslim, so are you.

Obama says he's a Christian and I believe him. But to insist he was never a Muslim, as his campaign did, is a lie.

Ok, I admit this was widely reported despite being a hoax. This does occasionally happen, and the media admitted they were wrong afterwards. Just like they apologized after saying that Obama went to a "radical Madrassa" or that according to Islamic law, Obama would be considered a Muslim.

You dodged the question. I'm not saying that the candidates shouldn't get equal scrutiny, or even that they didn't. However, if candidate A screws up, the media should report that. If candidate B does not make a similar caliber of mistake during that same time period, it is not the media's responsibility to generate a negative news story for candidate B to balance out the negative news story from candidate A. If candidate A makes ten huge mistakes and candidate B makes only one, there will and should be more negative news regarding candidate A.

Many Republicans and other conservatives have a tendency toward self-delusion. If the news tells them something they do not want to hear, instead of listening anyway, they assume that the media is biased and that it is wrong. They only pay attention when the media tells them what they want to hear. They are so certain of the truth of their opinions that they decide whether a story is true or not, not based on its own merits, but whether or not it corroborates with their opinions. You seem to be doing a fair amount of this yourself.

I rejected John McCain/Sarah Palin. Why do you insist on ignoring that?

It does not take a political partisan to recognize bias in reporting.

What you state about Conservatives could easily be attributed to your side as well.

 

[medicineman]

Navy Releases McCain's Records

USS Forrestal, July 29, 1967 - The worst accident aboard a US Navy surface vessel since WWII

BY WAYNE MADSEN/WAYNE MADSEN REPORT

The Navy released John McCain’s military record after a Freedom of Information Act request from the Associated Press. The record is packed with information on McCain’s medals and commendations but little else. The one thing that the McCain campaign does not want to see released is the record of McCain’s antics on board the USS Forestal in 1967. McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded trumps McCain’s record as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam.

WMR has learned additional details regarding the deadly fire aboard the Navy aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, on July 19, 1967 in the Gulf of Tonkin. The additional details point to then-Lt. Commander John McCain playing more of a role in triggering the fire and explosions than previously reported.

On January 16, 2006, WMR reported that according to a US Navy sailor who was aboard the Forrestal on the fateful day of the fire, “McCain and the Forrestal’s skipper, Capt. John K. Beling, were warned about the danger of using M-65 1000-lb. bombs manufactured in 1935, which were deemed too dangerous to use during World War II and, later, on B-52 bombers. The fire from the Zuni missle misfire resulted in the heavy 1000 pound bombs being knocked loose from the pylons of McCain’s A-4 aircraft, which were only designed to hold 500-pound bombs.”

WMR further reported, “The unstable bombs had a 60-second cook-off threshold in a fire situation and this warning was known to both Beling and McCain prior to the disaster.” WMR also cited the potential that McCain’s Navy records were used against him by the neo-cons in control of the Pentagon, “The neo-cons, who have had five years to examine every file within the Department of Defense, have likely accessed documents that could prove embarrassing to McCain, who was on board the USS Forrestal on July 29, 1967, and whose A-4 Skyhawk was struck by an air-toground Zuni missile that had misfired from an F-4 Phantom.”

WMR has been informed that crewmen aboard the Forrestal have provided additional information about the Forrestal incident. It is believed by many crewmen and those who have investigated the case that McCain deliberately “wet-started” his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. “Wet-starts”, done either deliberately or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.

In McCain’s case, the “wet-start” apparently “cooked off” and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration. “Wet starting” was apparently a common practice among young “hot-dog” pilots.

McCain was quickly transferred to the USS Oriskany (the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred). Three months later, McCain was shot down over North Vietnam on October 26, 1967.

As WMR previously reported, at the time of the Forrestal disaster, McCain’s father, Admiral John McCain, Jr., was Commander-in-Chief of US Naval Forces Europe (CINCUSNAVEUR) and was busy covering up the details of the deadly and pre-meditated June 8, 1967, Israeli attack on the NSA spy ship, the USS Liberty.

The fact that both McCains were involved in two incidents just weeks apart that resulted in a total death count of 168 on the Forrestal and the Liberty, with an additional injury count of 234 on both ships (with a number of them later dying from their wounds) with an accompanying classified paper trail inside the Pentagon, may be all that was needed to hold a Sword of Damocles over the head of the “family honor”-oriented McCain by the neo-cons.

WMR has also been informed by knowledgeable sources, including an ex-Navy A-4 pilot, the “wet-start game” was a common occurrence. However, it is between “very unlikely” and “impossible” for the Forrestal “wet start” to have been accidental. “Wet starts” were later rendered impossible by automated engine controls.

Wayne Madsen reports on military and political affairs in Washington at his website, WayneMadsenReport.com

The Creek

This has been all over the net, and of course, McCains father being one of the admirals in charge of that naval group, had access to all naval records and could alter them to cover Jr.s ass. So the only way to get to the truth is eyewitness accounts. You either believe it (I do) or you don't, so maybe Obama was the bigger man by not using this. Facts don't seem to play a large part in the republican attack ads, and I believe this being brought out could have hurt McCain, but no worries, we didn't need it and didn't use it and still won with a much cleaner campaign.

 

[ViRedd]

Navy Releases McCain's Records


USS Forrestal, July 29, 1967 - The worst accident aboard a US Navy surface vessel since WWII

BY WAYNE MADSEN/WAYNE MADSEN REPORT

The Navy released John McCain’s military record after a Freedom of Information Act request from the Associated Press. The record is packed with information on McCain’s medals and commendations but little else. The one thing that the McCain campaign does not want to see released is the record of McCain’s antics on board the USS Forestal in 1967. McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded trumps McCain’s record as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam.

WMR has learned additional details regarding the deadly fire aboard the Navy aircraft carrier, the USS Forrestal, on July 19, 1967 in the Gulf of Tonkin. The additional details point to then-Lt. Commander John McCain playing more of a role in triggering the fire and explosions than previously reported.

On January 16, 2006, WMR reported that according to a US Navy sailor who was aboard the Forrestal on the fateful day of the fire, “McCain and the Forrestal’s skipper, Capt. John K. Beling, were warned about the danger of using M-65 1000-lb. bombs manufactured in 1935, which were deemed too dangerous to use during World War II and, later, on B-52 bombers. The fire from the Zuni missle misfire resulted in the heavy 1000 pound bombs being knocked loose from the pylons of McCain’s A-4 aircraft, which were only designed to hold 500-pound bombs.”

WMR further reported, “The unstable bombs had a 60-second cook-off threshold in a fire situation and this warning was known to both Beling and McCain prior to the disaster.” WMR also cited the potential that McCain’s Navy records were used against him by the neo-cons in control of the Pentagon, “The neo-cons, who have had five years to examine every file within the Department of Defense, have likely accessed documents that could prove embarrassing to McCain, who was on board the USS Forrestal on July 29, 1967, and whose A-4 Skyhawk was struck by an air-toground Zuni missile that had misfired from an F-4 Phantom.”

WMR has been informed that crewmen aboard the Forrestal have provided additional information about the Forrestal incident. It is believed by many crewmen and those who have investigated the case that McCain deliberately “wet-started” his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. “Wet-starts”, done either deliberately or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.

In McCain’s case, the “wet-start” apparently “cooked off” and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions and massive fire. The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration. “Wet starting” was apparently a common practice among young “hot-dog” pilots.

McCain was quickly transferred to the USS Oriskany (the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred). Three months later, McCain was shot down over North Vietnam on October 26, 1967.

As WMR previously reported, at the time of the Forrestal disaster, McCain’s father, Admiral John McCain, Jr., was Commander-in-Chief of US Naval Forces Europe (CINCUSNAVEUR) and was busy covering up the details of the deadly and pre-meditated June 8, 1967, Israeli attack on the NSA spy ship, the USS Liberty.

The fact that both McCains were involved in two incidents just weeks apart that resulted in a total death count of 168 on the Forrestal and the Liberty, with an additional injury count of 234 on both ships (with a number of them later dying from their wounds) with an accompanying classified paper trail inside the Pentagon, may be all that was needed to hold a Sword of Damocles over the head of the “family honor”-oriented McCain by the neo-cons.

WMR has also been informed by knowledgeable sources, including an ex-Navy A-4 pilot, the “wet-start game” was a common occurrence. However, it is between “very unlikely” and “impossible” for the Forrestal “wet start” to have been accidental. “Wet starts” were later rendered impossible by automated engine controls.

Wayne Madsen reports on military and political affairs in Washington at his website, WayneMadsenReport.com

The Creek

This has been all over the net, and of course, McCains father being one of the admirals in charge of that naval group, had access to all naval records and could alter them to cover Jr.s ass. So the only way to get to the truth is eyewitness accounts. You either believe it (I do) or you don't, so maybe Obama was the bigger man by not using this. Facts don't seem to play a large part in the republican attack ads, and I believe this being brought out could have hurt McCain, but no worries, we didn't need it and didn't use it and still won with a much cleaner campaign.

The holes in the story are in red. Those are the ones I found. Perhaps others can find more.

Med ... ya gotta learn to read between the lines, Big Guy. I'd say the reason Obama didn't use the story is because he's a hell of a lot smarter than you are.

Vi

 

[Hayduke]

WOW! I guess the only words to believe come from the RNC or god. (the christian one not the other one{s})

Those crew members were probably born to a father who told their mother he would pull out...therefore, they were born liars! Maybe even....Muslim liars!
does anyone else hear dueling banjos in the background?

 

[Johnnyorganic]

This has been all over the net, and of course, McCains father being one of the admirals in charge of that naval group, had access to all naval records and could alter them to cover Jr.s ass. So the only way to get to the truth is eyewitness accounts. You either believe it (I do) or you don't, so maybe Obama was the bigger man by not using this. Facts don't seem to play a large part in the republican attack ads, and I believe this being brought out could have hurt McCain, but no worries, we didn't need it and didn't use it and still won with a much cleaner campaign.

What do you know? A swift-boat wannabe site featuring unnamed sources and another site featuring a feed to the same story. LOL!

Eyewitnesses don't mean shit if they are not willing to be named. What are they afraid of? At age 41 this tragic episode is old enough to have grandchildren.

Obama would have looked like a fool for buying into this.

 

[medicineman]

What do you know? A swift-boat wannabe site featuring unnamed sources and another site featuring a feed to the same story. LOL!

Eyewitnesses don't mean shit if they are not willing to be named. What are they afraid of? At age 41 this tragic episode is old enough to have grandchildren.

Obama would have looked like a fool for buying into this.

Maybe he just had too much class, something I never admitted to.

 

[medicineman]

The holes in the story are in red. Those are the ones I found. Perhaps others can find more.

Med ... ya gotta learn to read between the lines, Big Guy. I'd say the reason Obama didn't use the story is because he's a hell of a lot smarter than you are.

Vi

Obama being a hell of a lot smarter than I will get no arguement from me. What really puzzels me about these people (Presidential candidates), is why they would want the job. BTW old champ, I'd venture to say Obama has a few smarts on you as well.

 

[ViRedd]

Obama being a hell of a lot smarter than I will get no arguement from me. What really puzzels me about these people (Presidential candidates), is why they would want the job. BTW old champ, I'd venture to say Obama has a few smarts on you as well.

\

Power lust like Wilson, FDR and LBJ? Easier to score babes like Clinton? Genuine desire to improve the country due to an overwhelming love of country like Reagan?

Vi

 

[natrone23]

What don't we know about this "accident"? The media has been silent on this issue, what is Mccain hiding?

 

[Doctor Pot]

I would not have made the pledge in the first place.

AFAIK, this "pledge" consisted of him raising his hand during a primary debate back in 2007. He didn't have much time to think about it and probably made a mistake.

The U.S.S. Forrestal incident took place 41 years ago. An exhaustive Navy investigation followed. Maintenance issues related to stray electrical charges and old armaments were cited as the probable cause.

John McCain is a known quantity. He first appeared in politics in 1982. Since then he served two terms in the House of Representative, has won election to the Senate four times, and run for President twice so far (LOL!). Ample time and opportunity for a serious investigative inquiry to determine he was more than what he was: a pilot in his warplane awaiting launch from the catapult.

In fact, I have asked many people who bring up this event for some evidence. In return I get a link to a swift-boat wannabe website with only one unnamed source. If you are intent in your belief of this accusation that he was responsible, surely you could do better than that.

I'm not saying that the Forrestal incident implicated McCain, just that your logic was lacking.

You did not attend Catholic school in Indonesia, but that is just a guess on my part. When he did attend Catholic school, his religion was listed as Muslim. I repeat my previous quote.
Obama was born a Muslim. It's true. You may disagree, but you do not make that determination.

At that point in his life, Obama didn't have a religion, but Indonesian society was very patriarchal, so he was listed as the same religion as his stepfather.

Ask any Muslim and they will tell you. If Daddy is a Muslim, so are you.

Obama says he's a Christian and I believe him. But to insist he was never a Muslim, as his campaign did, is a lie.

I did ask a Muslm actually, and there are two reasons he is not, and never was a muslim. First, he was abandoned by his father and never knew him. I guess in Islam abandoning your kid severs that familial bond somehow, and prevents Islam from being passed on. Second, his father father renounced Islam, and I guess in Islam this also prevents Islam from being passed on. However, he is a Muslim according to Muslims in one sense: according to Islam everyone is a Muslim, they just don't know it yet.

I rejected John McCain/Sarah Palin. Why do you insist on ignoring that?

It does not take a political partisan to recognize bias in reporting.

That doesn't change the fact that you're ignoring a lot of valid information that contradicts your point of view. And I'm mostly challenging this idea that an objective media would generate the same amount of positive and negative coverage for both candidates. This is not the case. Giving both candidates the same amount of positive and negative coverage would give the Republicans a handicap.

What you state about Conservatives could easily be attributed to your side as well.

I don't think I really have a side, although lately I've been joining the liberals more often than not. I still think a lot of liberals are nuts. Many are a little delusional. But they're not nearly as bad as the so-called conservatives.

 

[misshestermoffitt]

I like they way it keeps being pointed out that the accident was 41 years ago, something 41 years old should be past history. Aren't these the same people that were trying to say Obama isn't a citizen? That was over 41 years ago, things from 41 years ago are are ancient history, right?

Oh and Johnny, so Obama didn't stick to federal funding for his campaign, whoopity doo. All that means is tax dollars (non willing contributors) didn't pay for his campaign, willing contributors did. I dare say that Obama isn't the first to break a campaign promise and if that's the worse thing he's done that you can come up with, then he's even a better President elect than we've ever seen.

If that's all you've got you should quit while you are ahead. The amount of campaign contributions that he received is a huge statement of what the people of America think about who's been running things and who they'd rather have running things.

Bush has pretty much managed to kill the country. Jobs being lost everyday, unemployment is through the roof, foreclosures are higher than they've even been. You can try to argue that it isn't Bush's fault, but this war he insisted on has bankrupted this country. Someone who had no problem making a mortgage payment when gas was 2 bucks a gallon might find more difficulty paying that same payment when gas is 4 bucks a gallon and everything else has jumped way up in price to follow the cost of gas.

Had Bush not drug us headlong into the Iraq war, do you think the country (and the rest of the world) would still be in this same shape?

What's closed near you? Circuit City is empty with locked doors, Steve and Barry's had 6 days left, not to mention the numerous small businesses that have shut down. I have a plan, we can turn all those empty businesses into homeless shelters, we're gonna need them.

 

[medicineman]

What's closed near you? Circuit City is empty with locked doors, Steve and Barry's had 6 days left, not to mention the numerous small businesses that have shut down. I have a plan, we can turn all those empty businesses into homeless shelters, we're gonna need them.

That's a fact, one of the first to go was a chain steak house,(Outback) and next another chain steak house (Black Angus), I guess people couldn't afford steak anymore. You can drive by almost any strip mall now and see vacancies, Mervyns is closing in three malls here, Casino employees are getting layed off by the thousands, they've stopped construction on a few big properties and the housing starts are virtually nil. Traffic on the usually crowded streets is noticeably lighter and the income at my wifes business has been cut in half, along with her salary. I can only hope it holds on till she is 62 and can collect her retirement, then we can sell out and split this den of iniquity.I feel sorry for Obama, this burden the Bush regime has left seems insuperable. He's going to need help to straighten this mess out. His job is everybit as hard as FDRs.

 

[Picasso345]

It would appear you are feeling the beautiful trickle of wetness from a trickle down economy. Enjoy! (but don't taste that trickle).

Reagan's "voodoo economics" are finally coming home to roost.

What's closed near you? Circuit City is empty with locked doors, Steve and Barry's had 6 days left, not to mention the numerous small businesses that have shut down. I have a plan, we can turn all those empty businesses into homeless shelters, we're gonna need them.

That's a fact, one of the first to go was a chain steak house,(Outback) and next another chain steak house (Black Angus), I guess people couldn't afford steak anymore. You can drive by almost any strip mall now and see vacancies, Mervyns is closing in three malls here, Casino employees are getting layed off by the thousands, they've stopped construction on a few big properties and the housing starts are virtually nil. Traffic on the usually crowded streets is noticeably lighter and the income at my wifes business has been cut in half, along with her salary. I can only hope it holds on till she is 62 and can collect her retirement, then we can sell out and split this den of iniquity.I feel sorry for Obama, this burden the Bush regime has left seems insuperable. He's going to need help to straighten this mess out. His job is everybit as hard as FDRs.

 

[ViRedd]

"What's closed near you? Circuit City is empty with locked doors, Steve and Barry's had 6 days left, not to mention the numerous small businesses that have shut down."


Not to worry guyz ... I checked the freezer department at the local super market last night. Plenty of Ben & Jerry's ice cream left. Hey, as long as there's an ample supply of Cherry Garcia on hand, all is well.

Vi

 

[CrackerJax]

This is perhaps the most ill informed thread I have read so far. Well done.


out.