The Great Mycorrhizae Myth

[Rurumo]

Be sure you compare the propagule counts of the different products. Dynomyco uses the 2 strains that have actually been tested on cannabis and their propagule count is 900/gram-this is really important since the propagules need to come in contact with the root system for them to do their thing. Even the best of these products are 95% filler, so the higher the propagule count, the more surface area of the root system the propagules will actually come in contact with. I've tried all of these products and some are noticeably more potent than others. I do use that Mykos brand for their stand alone Trichoderma product, which I apply 1-2 weeks after the Dynomyco.

 

[Rurumo]

Dynomyco is probably the best thing out right now for cannabis plants. There's only 4 species of Myco's that benefit Cannabis and Dynomyco has 900 prop per gram (combined) of 2 of them (glomus intraradices and glomus mosseae). Pretty affordable too at 52$ for 750 grams. Great white only has 83 props of each but it has a lot of the bacteria, but still its pretty pricey, you can get your bacteria from Extreme Gardening Azos or Growers Recharge. I like the Recharge because it has a little molasses to feed the microbes..

LOL I didn't even see your post before I wrote mine...

 

[dirtfromohio]

Dynomyco is probably the best thing out right now for cannabis plants. There's only 4 species of Myco's that benefit Cannabis and Dynomyco has 900 prop per gram (combined) of 2 of them (glomus intraradices and glomus mosseae). Pretty affordable too at 52$ for 750 grams. Great white only has 83 props of each but it has a lot of the bacteria, but still its pretty pricey, you can get your bacteria from Extreme Gardening Azos or Growers Recharge. I like the Recharge because it has a little molasses to feed the microbes..

Which other two species benefit cannabis? Everything I've read only noted those two that you mentioned.

Also something that I'm unclear on is in regards to feeding the microbes. As I understand, once the infection occurs then the mycorrhizae are exclusively fed through the plants. The only thing the hyphae are taking in are things that are being directly passed along to the plant, while the plant delivers down sugars/carbon to the mycorrhizae. If you click here and then scroll to the bottom and click on "Should I feed my mycorrhizae?" you'll find:

There is no need to feed mycorrhizae. The plant feeds them! It’s the excess sugars produced by the plant through photosynthesis which are released from the plant roots that feed the growth of mycorrhizae and mycorrhizal filaments. (There are synthetic compounds that can act as a catalyst to cause mycorrhizae to germinate, but they are unnatural, expensive, and not commonly available.) Please see the FAQ above entitled “What is the Recommended Fertility Program if I Use Mycorrhizae?” for recommendations regarding your fertility program in concert with mycorrhizal inoculation.

Of course this is assuming this is accurate information but I've read many things that state the same. And to be fair while I haven't read anything specifically to the contrary there are places that tell you to feed the microbes so this is where I'm at in my quest to find out some more truth.

And the reason I have linked that particular site is because they also sell a myco product and in their FAQ they talk about how often to apply the myco and they tell you you only need to do it once, and it's best to do it as early as possible in the plant's lifecycle. Too many other myco products tell you to apply it weekly or whatever. I couldn't understand why, once the colony is established, you'd need to keep applying. So when a company is selling a product and their advice to use less of it runs contrary to many of their competitors I would tend to trust that company a little more than some others. And also I don't know anything at all about their product(s). I ran across that site looking for info and haven't even considered their product. I'm not sure it'd meet my needs anyway. All I care about was the info, so I don't want it to seem like I'm spamming that site or anything.

 

[UpstateRecGrower]

Which other two species benefit cannabis? Everything I've read only noted those two that you mentioned.

Hmm it could be just those 2, I could have swore I recently read there was 4 total that were beneficial

 

[PJ Diaz]

Dynomyco is probably the best thing out right now for cannabis plants. There's only 4 species of Myco's that benefit Cannabis and Dynomyco has 900 prop per gram (combined) of 2 of them (glomus intraradices and glomus mosseae). Pretty affordable too at 52$ for 750 grams. Great white only has 83 props of each but it has a lot of the bacteria, but still its pretty pricey, you can get your bacteria from Extreme Gardening Azos or Growers Recharge. I like the Recharge because it has a little molasses to feed the microbes..

That's good info, but what are the other 2? This is what the product I'm using has, so not quite as much glomus mosseae, but many others too:

 

[PJ Diaz]

Mykos would be an example I think. On Amazon GW is like $8/oz if you buy the 8 oz container and Mykos is $0.72/oz

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003STB5N6

The thing about ectomycorrhizae, which GW includes 7 different varieties of, is that they have absolutely zero beneficial effects on flowering and fruiting plants. I think it's mostly trees that they infect.

https://mycorrhizae.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Mycorrhizal-Status-of-Families-and-Genera-v1.6.pdf

But it still has 2 of the mycos that are indeed proven to be beneficial to cannabis, Glomus intraradices and Glomus mosseae, so it's not like it's useless. I mean over a decade of growers using it means something. But it's always been known as an all in one and cannabis growers flocked to it probably because it was one of few options available early on that was consistent.

I wasn't trying to be critical at all. Please accept my apology if I came off that way. I still have a lot to learn. GW is a great product but maybe a little too much for cannabis. I have some sitting on a shelf currently but I do think a more tailored product that is also cheaper is something worth looking in to.

As well some potting mixes have myco added so in some cases adding a myco is entirely unnecessary unless you need that infection to happen sooner.

I actually just dug up and transplanted a 15-foot tall (before I cut it way back) lemon tree, and used the microb product in that transplant. The tree is doing very well, despite my abuse and torture in the transplant. I grow a lot of different plants, and while I'm not necessarily opposed to cannabis specific products, I kind of like stuff that will work in my entire garden.

Your notes do peak my curiosity though, because I admittedly have not done much in depth research into mycos.

 

[DCcan]

.... I do use that Mykos brand for their stand alone Trichoderma product, which I apply 1-2 weeks after the Dynomyco.

I like the xtreme mykosWP, thats good stuff.
That's the way to do it, is inoculate the plant at germination with any endemic strains that live in the roots, cells and the surface of the foliage.
Then apply the biotics of choice at transplant that you want to dominate the root zone, so they don't have to compete to take hold.
Doesn't have to be overly complicated.

 

[DCcan]

Systemic acquired resistance (SAR) and (ISR) induced systemic resistance in the whole plant is my goal, roots are only half of it.
LALSTOP G46 WG (Gliocladium catenulatum) can be inoculated into the soil and become endemic in the plant leaves, much like Beauveria bassiana.
Mycostop (Streptomyces griseoviridis) is another one that you can apply at germination. They can be applied as a pre treatment to the germination medium or seeds, or sprayed, drenched later as needed.

Some other products require re application which is one way to do it, but have limited benefits afterward. Mostly you just see the added charcoal and powdered molasses greening things up after a few weeks of use.
They still attack soil pathogens while briefly alive, leave their enzymes, but other biological control agents that become endemic in the soil and plants can do that cheaper at scale. Especially for outdoor bugs and pathogens.

 

[dirtfromohio]

Great white has over 700 times the amount of mycos in it per gram than the stuff from extreme gardening..

I've been digging in more and more and it looks like there were some updated results from ODA and they did test Great White. This was from 2018



The left is the lab analysis and the right is the label guarantee.

The full report is here. (PDF Link)

edit: Oh wait you said mycos and this test is for all the rest of the stuff in it. Not sure how to really quantify it then but is it safe to assume that with the levels of everything else viable being so low that the myco population is going to be equally diminished?

 

[UpstateRecGrower]

I've been digging in more and more and it looks like there were some updated results from ODA and they did test Great White. This was from 2018

View attachment 4875754

The left is the lab analysis and the right is the label guarantee.

The full report is here. (PDF Link)

edit: Oh wait you said mycos and this test is for all the rest of the stuff in it. Not sure how to really quantify it then but is it safe to assume that with the levels of everything else viable being so low that the myco population is going to be equally diminished?

Yeah you would think that the myco population would also be less given that everything else was. I’ve since learned that the only myco's that’s even beneficial to cannabis great white only has 166 prop/gram

 

[dirtfromohio]

...If the label is accurate unlike the bacterias. But I'm not sure that part would be much to worry about. A simple inoculation is all that's necessary for the mycorrhizae but the bacteria may need to colonize and fight with whatever is already present in the soil and that'll take time so it's important the count being high on the label reflects reality.

I wish I could find recharge in these lists.