Biden's Infrastructure Week

[mooray]

https://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/default/files/resources/downloads/wppl_12.pdf

Because the government is anti-screw people over, we have the largest prison system in the world... by far.

Yes some people should be in there less and some should be in there longer, but 99% of them deserve/d to be in there. What you're complaining about here is misguided, imo. The culture in this country manufactures shitty people. We need the largest prison system in the world...by far, because we make the most shitty people....by far.

 

[Dryxi]

Yes some people should be in there less and some should be in there longer, but 99% of them deserve/d to be in there. What you're complaining about here is misguided, imo. The culture in this country manufactures shitty people. We need the largest prison system in the world...by far, because we make the most shitty people....by far.

Maybe the prison system being so large and profitable makes shitty people?

 

[PizzaMan5000]

Yes some people should be in there less and some should be in there longer, but 99% of them deserve/d to be in there. What you're complaining about here is misguided, imo. The culture in this country manufactures shitty people. We need the largest prison system in the world...by far, because we make the most shitty people....by far.

There's other places where there's more violent criminals per capita running free.

But yes, I agree... We all know the risks with prison. I wish drug laws were more lax for sure, but I'm absolutely ok with most convicts being convicted..... Leads me to one of my favorite quotes: "try to only break one law at a time". You're less likely to go to prison if you only have one charge.

And yeah, paying school district taxes chaps my ass. I do wish people paid for their own offspring, like take it out of their own social security or something.
What good is the fire department honestly? If they report I'm growing; house insurance won't pay out anyway..... So yeah, I have extinguishers and grounded plugs.
Same goes for working on my car in my own garage.... Insurance won't cover a fire anyway.

 

[mooray]

Maybe the prison system being so large and profitable makes shitty people?

Yeah it's not binary, so there are definitely those types of problems, but to imply that accounts for the vast majority of the reasons why people are in jail is way off, imo. We have a shitty culture that fosters messed up socioeconomics(i.e. shitty people churning out more shitty people), again imo.

 

[schuylaar]

Do you know if that's what this is really about, taxes? If taxes are the issue, then he should argue taxes, because people in gov't could work for free and his force issue would remain, unless he's just creating the weird force argument because he doesn't want to look like a tightwad...?

I do think there is one form of taxes that should be considered unconstitutional, which is property tax. Across our founding documents, there's a general philosophy, which is that people should be free to live how they want, as long as it's not harming someone else. Property tax and eminent domain is the gov't keeping a finger in our butt. A person should be able to buy land and live on it without having to answer to anyone, it's the last bastion of the truest freedom one could practically have.

no, no..he's a tightwad.

it's property taxes too but services taxes i think bother him more. i do agree though is does suck to have eminent domain..your property never really yours. learning that as a kid in school seemed like stealing to me. whole class of 12 year olds shocked in social studies THAT'S where we learned how they will fuck us when the time comes!

 

[mooray]

Ahhhh, there nothing quite like stealing comfort and security from children!

 

[Rob Roy]

The government does a lot of things, A LOT...of things, so you clearly have something specific in mind that you're falsely equating to as being the entire government. What is it? Because the vast majority of government services have nothing to do with using force, so what is this "force" you speak of that seems to be all you're able to have in mind when thinking of "government"?

I hope to respond to your post a bit later, perhaps this evening. I apologize for taking so long, but I was laughing so hard, I needed a bit of time to compose myself.

 

[hanimmal]

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-chicago-c59782aa7664eba8fb54ae100cb9c0b8

CHICAGO (AP) — In the modest bungalows and two-flats of Chicago’s Little Village neighborhood, there’s never a shortage of needed home repairs staring residents in the face. And then there is the less obvious but more ominous problem lurking in their pipes.

“There are so many issues that seem more immediate, whether it’s the roof, the windows, siding, insulation,” said 51-year-old Enrique Nieto, who has lived in the predominantly Latino neighborhood all his life. “The lead issue is not the one that’s right in front of you.”

Given short shrift by public officials for decades, the lead pipes snaking through Chicago and communities of every size from rural Maine to suburban California are in the national spotlight now as President Joe Biden pushes to spend $45 billion to replace every lead water pipe in the country as part of his big infrastructure package.

The moon-shot plan could have huge ramifications for this city and others where a swath of Black, Latino and low-income residents have been left effectively drinking from a lead straw decades after scientists established that lead consumption is unsafe at any level.

The White House holds out its lead-pipe proposal as a generation-changing opportunity to reduce brain-damaging exposure to lead in 400,000 schools and child care centers and 6 million to 10 million homes. It’s also an effort that the administration says can help create plenty of good-paying union jobs around the country.

There are few, if any, cities where the issue is more salient than Chicago. The nation’s third-largest city is still estimated to have some 380,000 lead pipes bringing water into homes, schools and businesses. The city required their use until a 1986 federal ban that came long after most other American cities had phased out their use in the face of an avalanche of research on lead’s toxicity.

Biden’s plan “would be enormous if it comes through,” said Troy Hernandez, an environmental activist in the city’s predominantly Latino Pilsen neighborhood. Hernandez recently spent $15,000 to replace the lead service lines bringing water into his home. “I question whether $45 billion is enough, but it’s a really important step.”

Since announcing his infrastructure plan, Biden has tried to frame his ambitious effort on lead pipes as advancing the cause of racial equity. The problem has long had a disproportionate impact on communities of color, according to environmental advocates and research.

Biden claims there are “hundreds of Flints all across America” -- a reference to the public health crisis that erupted in the predominantly Black Michigan city after the government switched to a new water supply in 2014 but failed to properly treat the water with chemicals to prevent lead pipes from disintegrating.

The problem nationally would not have been neglected so long if it hit closer to home for politicians, the president suggested.

“What do you think would happen if they found out all the lead pipes are up in the Capitol?” Biden said recently as he defended his plan against GOP complaints that it’s rife with wasteful spending.

Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot announced in September that the city was launching two programs to begin addressing the issue. But with limited dollars, the city’s effort this year is expected to dig out about 650 lead water service lines — pipes under homes that connect to water mains.

“This is a problem that was decades in the making and it is likely to take many, many, many years to address, and a lot of funding,” said the city’s health commissioner, Dr. Allison Arwady.

Lead is unsafe to consume at any level for children, according to the federal Environmental Protection Agency. Even low levels of lead in the blood can permanently damage the developing brains of children and result in slowed growth, hearing problems and anemia. The most common sources of lead in drinking water are lead pipes, faucets, and fixtures, according to the agency.

Biden’s lead-pipe plan is in sync with an order he signed soon after he took office pledging to target 40% of new clean energy and environmental spending at disadvantaged communities.

The Metropolitan Planning Council, a nonprofit group promoting equitable and sustainable growth in the Chicago region, reported last year that 65% of Illinois’ Black and Latino residents and 42% of its Asian American and Native American populations lived in communities containing 94% of the state’s known lead service lines. Thirty percent of the state’s white population lived in those same communities.

Even when the long-neglected problem gets attention, the help may not be evenly distributed.

In Washington, D.C., efforts by the city to give homeowners logistical help with lead service line replacements resulted in higher replacement rates for residents of high-income, white neighborhoods than for homeowners in low-income Black neighborhoods, according to a study by the Environmental Defense Fund advocacy group.

The scope of the problem nationally is massive, if not entirely documented. In some cities, including Chicago, the location of all the lead water pipes is not fully known.

The White House, which does not have a firm timeline on how long it would take to complete the project, says it intends to dedicate some of the money to identifying the scope of the issue.

Marc Edwards, the Virginia Tech University civil and environmental engineer whose research helped expose Flint’s water crisis, estimates it probably would take 10 years to 15 years to replace all the nation’s lead pipes.

Estimated replacements costs vary widely, he said. Chicago, for example, has estimated the average cost of replacing a lead water service at $27,000. Cities such as Denver, Detroit and Newark, New Jersey -- all of which launched replacement efforts in recent years -- have managed to do it for a fraction of that cost. The White House estimated $4,000 to $6,000 per pipe replacement in developing its proposal.

The White House says it would distribute the money to states and communities through two already established federal clean water programs.

“If it were done correctly, $45 billion is enough,” Edwards said. “And if it’s not, it will still make an enormous dent.”
In Little Village, concerns about lead levels have simmered for years.

Last year, Nieto said, residents became concerned after the implosion of a smoke stack at a decommissioned power plant left much of the neighborhood enveloped in dust. Some residents complained that their tap water was cloudy for some time after the implosion and feared that their old lead service lines may have been jarred, raising the level of lead particulates in the water. City officials tested the water and assured residents the water was safe, though some residents remained skeptical, Nieto said.

Most homeowners in the working-class neighborhood don’t have the wherewithal to replace lead service lines on their own,
Nieto said, adding that Biden’s plan “would go a long way.”

Some of his neighbors are skeptical.

Irma Morales, 59, another longtime resident of the working-class neighborhood, said what Biden is proposing sounds good but she’s doubtful the federal government will actually deliver.

“They say but what do they do?” Morales said.

Brenda Santoyo, a policy associate at the Little Village Environmental Justice Organization, said Biden’s plan -- if it comes to fruition -- could help demonstrate to Latino communities they aren’t forgotten.

“Replacing these lead lines would give our community members a sense of trust in government at a time when there hasn’t been a lot of reason to have trust,” she said.

 

[HGCC]

Ahhhh, there nothing quite like stealing comfort and security from children!

It feels incredible, the best kind really, a step up from the exquisite comforts of clubbing baby seals. Seals may have cuter eyes, but stealing from children really is the whole package...adorable noises..opposable thumbs.

 

[PizzaMan5000]

It feels incredible, the best kind really, a step up from the exquisite comforts of clubbing baby seals. Seals may have cuter eyes, but stealing from children really is the whole package...adorable noises..opposable thumbs.

I would club a deer; 100%.

 

[HGCC]

Extra clubbing for extra tenderness

 

[Dryxi]

Sure is a lot of money being thrown around this year, I wonder how much trickles down to actual infrastructure and jobs, and how much simply stays at the top. Trump dropped corporate taxes from 35% to 21%, when the increase to 28% (to pay for this bill) doesn't make it through the process, and we have to borrow money to pay for it... wonder who will gladly loan that money (corporations with the extra money on hand from low tax levels?)?

I don't normally agree with most of what Robert Wolff has to say, but his latest episode of economic update touches on this bill in the 1st 15 minutes (titled "Workers successfully take over their workplaces" https://www.democracyatwork.info/economicupdate). Thought provoking at the least, only the first 15 minutes are relevant.

 

[hanimmal]

Sure is a lot of money being thrown around this year, I wonder how much trickles down to actual infrastructure and jobs, and how much simply stays at the top. Trump dropped corporate taxes from 35% to 21%, when the increase to 28% (to pay for this bill) doesn't make it through the process, and we have to borrow money to pay for it... wonder who will gladly loan that money (corporations with the extra money on hand from low tax levels?)?

I don't normally agree with most of what Robert Wolff has to say, but his latest episode of economic update touches on this bill in the 1st 15 minutes (titled "Workers successfully take over their workplaces" https://www.democracyatwork.info/economicupdate). Thought provoking at the least, only the first 15 minutes are relevant.

Well unfortunately the first couple trillion were done by Trump and the Republicans to benefit themselves, so I am not very hopeful about those dollars being a good investment.

But if done well the last bill and a future infrastructure bill could really benefit our economy. As for who will pay for it if there is not a tax increase on the corporations/wealthiest in our nation, then all of us will pay for it in future inflation. Which benefits people who owe money now mostly (because they are paying back loans with money worth slightly less than when they borrowed it (if inflation is greater than the interest rates anyway).

 

[Fogdog]

Sure is a lot of money being thrown around this year, I wonder how much trickles down to actual infrastructure and jobs, and how much simply stays at the top. Trump dropped corporate taxes from 35% to 21%, when the increase to 28% (to pay for this bill) doesn't make it through the process, and we have to borrow money to pay for it... wonder who will gladly loan that money (corporations with the extra money on hand from low tax levels?)?

I don't normally agree with most of what Robert Wolff has to say, but his latest episode of economic update touches on this bill in the 1st 15 minutes (titled "Workers successfully take over their workplaces" https://www.democracyatwork.info/economicupdate). Thought provoking at the least, only the first 15 minutes are relevant.

Is there such a thing as democracy in Communism?

Because all I've ever seen is authoritarian rule in those systems that were called Communist. Authoritarian rule, left or right is an archaic way to govern.

 

[Dryxi]

Is there such a thing as democracy in Communism?

Because all I've ever seen is authoritarian rule in those systems that were called Communist. Authoritarian rule, left or right is an archaic way to govern.

How does that apply? The guy talking is full on Marxist but that doesn't stop him from making possibly valid points

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

50 years from now all countries be communist, we will be dead of course. When working becomes a privilege and not a task, because machines will do almost all of it, including the thinking and artistic creation too. Perhaps the last to go will be the lowly maintenance worker, mechanical shit always breaks down and of course mothers, no getting out of that one.

 

[Fogdog]

How does that apply? The guy talking is full on Marxist but that doesn't stop him from making possibly valid points

Communism is authoritarian central government, is it not?

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Communism is authoritarian central government, is it not?

Stalin's version was, but Marx did look at the whole of economics and his ideas were for a far distant future, one we are rapidly approaching and one your grand kids will live in. We have seen disruptive technologies before and the pace is increasing rapidly. Technology leads to vastly increased wealth for society, a Nobel prize was won in economics for demonstrating this years back. One only need extrapolate current trends in technology and look for logical or technical roadblocks, one day if trends prevail, working will be a privilege and not a requirement. Managers will go to AI and engineers will be like the armies of draftsmen of years back. Then your kids and grand kids will see communism and probably guaranteed minimum incomes before that. This assumes we don't destroy our global civilization or fuck it and the planet up too much.

 

[Dryxi]

Communism is authoritarian central government, is it not?

He compares this bill to FDRs bills, which didn't make us Communist. I'm not for a strong central government but it is easy to see how throwing money will lead to much of that money being concentrated at the top, especially if they do not hike the corporate rate.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

He compares this bill to FDRs bills, which didn't make us Communist. I'm not for a strong central government but it is easy to see how throwing money solely will lead to much of that money being concentrated at the top, especially if they do not hike the corporate rate.

Joe is an FDR democrat, one of the few remaining, FDR was a pragmatist before anything else, whatever worked, fuck ideology.