Is there a Doctor in the building?

[Lagged]

Hey ya'll

Having some adverse reactions to something with my lovely ladies. Noticed this on all 3 plants, a little worse on the bruce banner. Not quite sure what exactly it is, I'm thinking it has something to do with potassium or cal/mag def.

What's the prognosis, Dr. Greenthumb?

Medium: Promix HP / Dr Earth 4-4-4/ EWC
Lights: Mars Hydro TSL2000 - 50%, apprx 20in, 19/5 - I have been raising/lowering based on how the plant looks. Decided to lower them recently after some much needed defol uncovered some nodes that were underdeveloped.
Environment: Light on 80f/60rh Light off 70-74f/65rh
Feeding: Feed/water/water/Feed - EC- .9-1.2
Nute: 10-3-6 on feed days. I added 1/2 strength calmag only twice during this grow so far (separated by two weeks). Added some Lotus Bloom 1/3 strength once just to boost pk levels. I also did a Dr. Earth 4-4-4 tea about 1.5 weeks ago to boost the microbial life, and added some molasses a few waterings after.
Strains: Bruce Banner, Skywalker OG, Black Widow

Misc - added nematode SF as preventative for gnats


other misc info: Lights are probably a little too strong as I noticed some bleaching on upper growth - you'll notice a few holes or gaps on each plant - trying to jumpstart the growth that was hidden before I defol'd. The necrosis is really what bothers me - I'd be happy if it was a nute def/tox. Hoping its not due to critters

 

[Lagged]

Pics of nutes/misc

 

[Lordhooha]

Pics of nutes/misc

Too much dr earths 444 is like Adderall xrs it's instant then slow releases over time. You're most likely feeding too much. Kill other stuff especially the molasses as You're not brewing any sort of teas.

 

[Lagged]

Too much dr earths 444 is like Adderall xrs it's instant then slow releases over time. You're most likely feeding too much. Kill other stuff especially the molasses as You're not brewing any sort of teas.

I added the Dr Earth 444 when I initially made the soil per instructions on the bag, then did a tea 1.5 weeks ago just to boost the microbial life. Did the molassas about 6 days after the tea.

I was under the impression the Dr Earth in the soil only lasts a few weeks at most. In tea form, 4-4-4 shouldn't be too strong, no? I should note these are about 80 days in (wasted 2 weeks early with large pots and enviro issues)

 

[Lordhooha]

I added the Dr Earth 444 when I initially made the soil per instructions on the bag, then did a tea 1.5 weeks ago just to boost the microbial life. Did the molassas about 6 days after the tea.

The molasses sure only be used when brewing not after the fact.

 

[Budzbuddha]

Probably skewed ph …

 

[Lagged]

The molasses sure only be used when brewing not after the fact.

huh, interesting. I was under the impression via what I read on the forums that molasses was used to feed the microbial life. I've read some people adding it weekly. is this bad advice?

Thank you so much for your input!

Probably skewed ph …

Why do you say that, and what remedies would you suggest? The promixHP has pH balancers in it already, so was never really worried about that.

 

[Budzbuddha]

Notice the lighter green color … 4-4-4 is a good general purpose fert.

Matching ph to medium used will correct most issues regardless of buffers as I understand ph fluctuate with this medium even down to 4 depending on age of it.
Bump up to a more general range of uptake ( 6.5-6.7 ) allowing for drift … more important to match medium with what’s going in over whats coming out.

 

[Lagged]

Notice the lighter green color … 4-4-4 is a good general purpose fert.

Matching ph to medium used will correct most issues regardless of buffers as I understand ph fluctuate with this medium even down to 4 depending on age of it.
Bump up to a more general range of uptake ( 6.5-6.7 ) allowing for drift … more important to match medium with what’s going in over whats coming out.

Hmm, interesting.

Maybe I should do a test of runoff and see what it comes out as?

Regarding the light green color - I was thinking this was from the lights. I've lowered them to boost some growth that was hidden before defol. The plants in the pictures are in a row, the first picture being on the right, second is middle, and third is left. Notice the gradient?

So what you're suggesting is pH lockout? Remedies for this generally include flushing, no?

 

[Budzbuddha]

No reason to run bloom unless you are in bloom.
4-4-4 will carry to flip all on its own. Keep molasses out of picture until flowering stages. It is uptake issues with that plant ( nitro ) … loss of pigment . Nitro is important for photosynthesis and health of plant. You can improve the “ green “ by simply foliar spraying mag sulfate ( epsom ) for quicker absorption.

You want plant to “ reserve “ enough nitro for stretch phase at flip.

 

[Budzbuddha]

Flush burritos - target the water and feed mix within range before adding. No need to check runoff - by doing that you are leaching medium with excess water. I would go at least 70% or better on power ( especially during veg ) so plant can grow and structure. 20” is fine.

Those lights “ can “ bleach / burn but it will be at the very tops of plant ( usually when close like 12” ) then you can dim down but generally with led boards of any brand 18” over canopy is fine .

 

[Budzbuddha]

Retucking / weaving branches continually will bring up mids and lowers. You still have time to correct and move on to fill up quadrants.

 

[Lagged]

No reason to run bloom unless you are in bloom.
4-4-4 will carry to flip all on its own. Keep molasses out of picture until flowering stages. It is uptake issues with that plant ( nitro ) … loss of pigment . Nitro is important for photosynthesis and health of plant. You can improve the “ green “ by simply foliar spraying mag sulfate ( epsom ) for quicker absorption.

You want plant to “ reserve “ enough nitro for stretch phase at flip.

Okay, I see what you're saying! We're planning on flipping in 1.5 weeks. Any specific brand or mix of epson salt? Stuff seems to be available everywhere from hydro stores to walmart lol

Flush burritos - target the water and feed mix within range before adding. No need to check runoff - by doing that you are leaching medium with excess water. I would go at least 70% or better on power ( especially during veg ) so plant can grow and structure. 20” is fine.

Those lights “ can “ bleach / burn but it will be at the very tops of plant ( usually when close like 12” ) then you can dim down but generally with led boards of any brand 18” over canopy is fine .

So what is the purpose of the buffers if we still need to target pH (of course if the tap is crazy high or low I can see that. My tap comes out at 7.1, though). One of the reasons I bought this soil is to not have to fuck with pH! lol. Is this because I screwed up the balance and we just need to get it to normal?

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me, man! I have so many question I apologize if its overwhelming lol

 

[Budzbuddha]

I use tap …. My tap ( Cali ) chimes in at 7.2 / 155 ppm ….. non issue . I mix up my feed or water , add a pinch of Alaska ph crystals ( down ) to range it then give it to girls. Simple.

Most municipalities have adequate cal / mag within water source. I use it in a lot of peat based mixes regardless of buffers.
But if you add water and feeds close to medium ph then if buffer reliability ( oyster / dolo / etc. ) changes ( medium moisture content overall ) then you are more assured that your addition to equation is on track.

Outside plants give no shits on tap or RO. You are only targeting the range needed to properly have elements available for plant.
Ive seen growers run distilled , bottled water and other nonsense ….. it’s a plant FFS. You want to bump growth ?
Give it full power , add kelp / EWC .

Be aware , you only trying to stop progression of issues , damaged leaf will not recover ( defol ) them if you want.
You are throwing kitchen sink at it , when all you need is ph control. 4-4-4 alone is sufficient for veg period. Lotus bloom adds nothing during this stage.

 

[Lagged]

I use tap …. My tap ( Cali ) chimes in at 7.2 / 155 ppm ….. non issue . I mix up my feed or water , add a pinch of Alaska ph crystals ( down ) to range it then give it to girls. Simple.

Most municipalities have adequate cal / mag within water source. I use it in a lot of peat based mixes regardless of buffers.
But if you add water and feeds close to medium ph then if buffer reliability ( oyster / dolo / etc. ) changes ( medium moisture content overall ) then you are more assured that your addition to equation is on track.

Outside plants give no shits on tap or RO. You are only targeting the range needed to properly have elements available for plant.
Ive seen growers run distilled , bottled water and other nonsense ….. it’s a plant FFS. You want to bump growth ?
Give it full power , add kelp / EWC .

Be aware , you only trying to stop progression of issues , damaged leaf will not recover ( defol ) them if you want.
You are throwing kitchen sink at it , when all you need is ph control. 4-4-4 alone is sufficient for veg period. Lotus bloom adds nothing during this stage.

Thank you for the very well thought out reply. Could you possibly link the Alaska ph crystals that you use? I would love to use that as compared to the aquarium shit as thats all I have currently in regards to ph down lol.

Totally makes sense, just making it easier for the buffers to balance to the right pH, gotcha!

@PadawanWarrior got me hooked on EWC, but I haven't heard much about kelp, would love to learn more.

Fair enough, though. pH is a good place to start. I'll get some of them alaska crystals and see what happens.


Thanks man!

 

[Budzbuddha]

Try this brand of kelp … cheap / effective and even has molasses ( simple sugar ) .
Alaska ph is ( citric acid ) … I stopped using normal ph down ( phosphoric acid ).

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Hey ya'll

Having some adverse reactions to something with my lovely ladies. Noticed this on all 3 plants, a little worse on the bruce banner. Not quite sure what exactly it is, I'm thinking it has something to do with potassium or cal/mag def.

What's the prognosis, Dr. Greenthumb?

Medium: Promix HP / Dr Earth 4-4-4/ EWC
Lights: Mars Hydro TSL2000 - 50%, apprx 20in, 19/5 - I have been raising/lowering based on how the plant looks. Decided to lower them recently after some much needed defol uncovered some nodes that were underdeveloped.
Environment: Light on 80f/60rh Light off 70-74f/65rh
Feeding: Feed/water/water/Feed - EC- .9-1.2
Nute: 10-3-6 on feed days. I added 1/2 strength calmag only twice during this grow so far (separated by two weeks). Added some Lotus Bloom 1/3 strength once just to boost pk levels. I also did a Dr. Earth 4-4-4 tea about 1.5 weeks ago to boost the microbial life, and added some molasses a few waterings after.
Strains: Bruce Banner, Skywalker OG, Black Widow

Misc - added nematode SF as preventative for gnats


other misc info: Lights are probably a little too strong as I noticed some bleaching on upper growth - you'll notice a few holes or gaps on each plant - trying to jumpstart the growth that was hidden before I defol'd. The necrosis is really what bothers me - I'd be happy if it was a nute def/tox. Hoping its not due to critters

You might be adding too much and causing lockout. I'd probably do plain water a few times.

I added the Dr Earth 444 when I initially made the soil per instructions on the bag, then did a tea 1.5 weeks ago just to boost the microbial life. Did the molassas about 6 days after the tea.

I was under the impression the Dr Earth in the soil only lasts a few weeks at most. In tea form, 4-4-4 shouldn't be too strong, no? I should note these are about 80 days in (wasted 2 weeks early with large pots and enviro issues)

Some of the stuff in DrEarth takes awhile to break down.

huh, interesting. I was under the impression via what I read on the forums that molasses was used to feed the microbial life. I've read some people adding it weekly. is this bad advice?

Thank you so much for your input!



Why do you say that, and what remedies would you suggest? The promixHP has pH balancers in it already, so was never really worried about that.

I rarely us molasses straight into the soil. Make the microbes get their sugars from the roots. Great in teas though. I do use a little occasionally, but like 1 tsp per gal every blue moon. Usually just plain water. But yucca extract has become a friend.

Hmm, interesting.

Maybe I should do a test of runoff and see what it comes out as?

Regarding the light green color - I was thinking this was from the lights. I've lowered them to boost some growth that was hidden before defol. The plants in the pictures are in a row, the first picture being on the right, second is middle, and third is left. Notice the gradient?

So what you're suggesting is pH lockout? Remedies for this generally include flushing, no?

Maybe raise the lights a bit until you figure it out. That should help them from getting worse faster.

I use tap …. My tap ( Cali ) chimes in at 7.2 / 155 ppm ….. non issue . I mix up my feed or water , add a pinch of Alaska ph crystals ( down ) to range it then give it to girls. Simple.

Most municipalities have adequate cal / mag within water source. I use it in a lot of peat based mixes regardless of buffers.
But if you add water and feeds close to medium ph then if buffer reliability ( oyster / dolo / etc. ) changes ( medium moisture content overall ) then you are more assured that your addition to equation is on track.

Outside plants give no shits on tap or RO. You are only targeting the range needed to properly have elements available for plant.
Ive seen growers run distilled , bottled water and other nonsense ….. it’s a plant FFS. You want to bump growth ?
Give it full power , add kelp / EWC .

Be aware , you only trying to stop progression of issues , damaged leaf will not recover ( defol ) them if you want.
You are throwing kitchen sink at it , when all you need is ph control. 4-4-4 alone is sufficient for veg period. Lotus bloom adds nothing during this stage.

Pretty sure Alaska Naturals pH down is just citric acid. Can you check the ingredients?

I'd just get this shit for a lifetime supply.

Amazon.com: Milliard Citric Acid 5 Pound - 100% Pure Food Grade Non-GMO Project Verified (5 Pound): Health & Personal Care

Buy Milliard Citric Acid 5 Pound - 100% Pure Food Grade Non-GMO Project Verified (5 Pound) on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders

www.amazon.com

Okay, I see what you're saying! We're planning on flipping in 1.5 weeks. Any specific brand or mix of epson salt? Stuff seems to be available everywhere from hydro stores to walmart lol


So what is the purpose of the buffers if we still need to target pH (of course if the tap is crazy high or low I can see that. My tap comes out at 7.1, though). One of the reasons I bought this soil is to not have to fuck with pH! lol. Is this because I screwed up the balance and we just need to get it to normal?

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me, man! I have so many question I apologize if its overwhelming lol

Your microbes should be able to buffer the pH for the most part.

Thank you for the very well thought out reply. Could you possibly link the Alaska ph crystals that you use? I would love to use that as compared to the aquarium shit as thats all I have currently in regards to ph down lol.

Totally makes sense, just making it easier for the buffers to balance to the right pH, gotcha!

@PadawanWarrior got me hooked on EWC, but I haven't heard much about kelp, would love to learn more.

Fair enough, though. pH is a good place to start. I'll get some of them alaska crystals and see what happens.


Thanks man!

The citric acid can work as a chelating agent. So does yucca extract. My well water comes out at like 7.8 or so, but I usually just give it to my plants like that. Sometimes I'll add a little. It helps flush out some of my extra Ca. 1/16 tsp citric per gal drops my pH to around 6.6 or so.

Molasses has a low pH, so if you've been giving a lot of it your soil could have a low pH. Also that pH down might be building up in the medium. I don't know what's in the fish tank shit.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Sorry for the book, but if it was me, I'd give them plain water with a little citric acid at least, and water until you have a little runoff. And I'd raise that light until it started looking better.

You can get citric acid at the grocery store too. It's a food preservative, and it works great to turn regular Canna gummies into sour gummies. Cleans your shower heads and sink shit too if you have hard water at all. Great stuff.

 

[Obepawn]

Try this brand of kelp … cheap / effective and even has molasses ( simple sugar ) .
Alaska ph is ( citric acid ) … I stopped using normal ph down ( phosphoric acid ).

View attachment 4911535View attachment 4911536

I use vitamin C powder (Ascorbic acid) to lower my pH, and it has the added benefit of nuetralizing chlorine and chloramine virtually on contact. A 1/4 tsp of of ascorbic acid neutralizes a bathtub full of tap water, and studies have shown that it has no negative effect on microorganisms.

 

[Lagged]

Sorry for the book, but if it was me, I'd give them plain water with a little citric acid at least, and water until you have a little runoff. And I'd raise that light until it started looking better.

You can get citric acid at the grocery store too. It's a food preservative, and it works great to turn regular Canna gummies into sour gummies. Cleans your shower heads and sink shit too if you have hard water at all. Great stuff.

No need to apologize! All great bits of information! I really appreciate the reply.

Based on what I'm hearing from @Budzbuddha and yourself, I am going to hold off on feeding (probably the rest of veg, 1-2weeks) and just add some pH targeted plain water.

Also yes, the lights are going up day by day until I find the height they like.

Hoping this will help, would hate to have this problem persist into flower.