Hermie Cause & Effect

[JMallgren]

I've been growing for a few years, and unfortunately, I've already had my fair share of hermies, but I have a feeling, hermies are much more prevalent than we all admit, because in the wild, hermies are good; they amount to self preservation and survival of the fittest, which would essentially be, the plant most efficient at pollinating itself. The plant with the biggest swinging dick on the block, even if it's a female, is the one that's going to be around a decade or a century from now. Hermies keep strains growing that otherwise would not have so we should all be thankful in that regard...BUT, as we all know, hermies and huge dank buds can't coexist, and we smoke and like, huge dank buds. It's a conundrum which brings me to the point of my post. I suppose anything that makes the plant insecure, in any way, could potentially cause a hermie. Plants are unique from one another, just like all of us, what makes one plant insecure might not make another plant insecure so I think we should all assume we're gonna have some, every time. That being said, after week 3 of flower, I cut all my oscillating fans just in case. I make sure my overall circulation is good with intake and exhaust, just no oscillating fans. In addition, I was doing a foliar of kelp under the canopy to help render an pollen that exists ineffective but recently I've been using Optic Foliar Switch and have had great results with both but I've seen hermies on every grow and I've only had seeded bud on my very first grow. Im sure what I'm doing has helped but to not have any seeded bud from them is weird so I have a couple theories and I'm hoping for some feedback. First thing is, do hermies present that are sterile sometimes? For whatever reason, I've picked countless off and it seems like most of them didn't have any pollen in them? Anyone have the same experience? Also, from what I've seen and experienced thus far, most if not all, hermies come from the inside of plant originating from buds that are somewhat underdeveloped? Is that what u guys have seen also? If that's mostly the case, do you think under canopy lighting would help to prevent them? Perhaps under canopy lighting doesn't help to increase yields at all? Maybe it's just an insurance policy, like Switch. Any thoughts?

 

[smokinrav]

Hermies are tough to nail down. Weak genetics, disturbances in light cycle, poor environment or some combination of any of them are contributing factors.
Mostly, it's about you choosing solid genetics and providing a stable environment that prevents hermies. Kelp extract sprays, removing leaves, airflow adjustments, etc. are just a panacea for your fears.
I think you're suffering from weak genetics, with the info provided and all things being equal.

 

[Bukvičák]

From my experience, if you have only few nanners here and there (not too much appearing in bunches everyday) and you are able to get rid of them, they are not causing the huge damage, they seems like to polinate the calyxes around them but not developing seeds than. True hermie is completely different story, jizzin all around resulting in visible seed pods in buds in two weeks. Nanners can appear all over the plant, top colas as well as suckers. Last few grows, I am always experiencing this thing but have not found a single seed. My environment is not ideal but not far away from it. I believe it could be caused either by the light stress in my case or genetics. The strain I have decided to keep is just nannering around 10th week of flower does not matter under which light is grown. If you think more about Rodelization as survival instinct of the plant, thats the thing I have never experienced yet...

 

[Wastei]

I've been growing for a few years, and unfortunately, I've already had my fair share of hermies, but I have a feeling, hermies are much more prevalent than we all admit, because in the wild, hermies are good; they amount to self preservation and survival of the fittest, which would essentially be, the plant most efficient at pollinating itself. The plant with the biggest swinging dick on the block, even if it's a female, is the one that's going to be around a decade or a century from now. Hermies keep strains growing that otherwise would not have so we should all be thankful in that regard...BUT, as we all know, hermies and huge dank buds can't coexist, and we smoke and like, huge dank buds. It's a conundrum which brings me to the point of my post. I suppose anything that makes the plant insecure, in any way, could potentially cause a hermie. Plants are unique from one another, just like all of us, what makes one plant insecure might not make another plant insecure so I think we should all assume we're gonna have some, every time. That being said, after week 3 of flower, I cut all my oscillating fans just in case. I make sure my overall circulation is good with intake and exhaust, just no oscillating fans. In addition, I was doing a foliar of kelp under the canopy to help render an pollen that exists ineffective but recently I've been using Optic Foliar Switch and have had great results with both but I've seen hermies on every grow and I've only had seeded bud on my very first grow. Im sure what I'm doing has helped but to not have any seeded bud from them is weird so I have a couple theories and I'm hoping for some feedback. First thing is, do hermies present that are sterile sometimes? For whatever reason, I've picked countless off and it seems like most of them didn't have any pollen in them? Anyone have the same experience? Also, from what I've seen and experienced thus far, most if not all, hermies come from the inside of plant originating from buds that are somewhat underdeveloped? Is that what u guys have seen also? If that's mostly the case, do you think under canopy lighting would help to prevent them? Perhaps under canopy lighting doesn't help to increase yields at all? Maybe it's just an insurance policy, like Switch. Any thoughts?

 

[Wizzlebiz]

I've been growing for a few years, and unfortunately, I've already had my fair share of hermies, but I have a feeling, hermies are much more prevalent than we all admit, because in the wild, hermies are good; they amount to self preservation and survival of the fittest, which would essentially be, the plant most efficient at pollinating itself. The plant with the biggest swinging dick on the block, even if it's a female, is the one that's going to be around a decade or a century from now. Hermies keep strains growing that otherwise would not have so we should all be thankful in that regard...BUT, as we all know, hermies and huge dank buds can't coexist, and we smoke and like, huge dank buds. It's a conundrum which brings me to the point of my post. I suppose anything that makes the plant insecure, in any way, could potentially cause a hermie. Plants are unique from one another, just like all of us, what makes one plant insecure might not make another plant insecure so I think we should all assume we're gonna have some, every time. That being said, after week 3 of flower, I cut all my oscillating fans just in case. I make sure my overall circulation is good with intake and exhaust, just no oscillating fans. In addition, I was doing a foliar of kelp under the canopy to help render an pollen that exists ineffective but recently I've been using Optic Foliar Switch and have had great results with both but I've seen hermies on every grow and I've only had seeded bud on my very first grow. Im sure what I'm doing has helped but to not have any seeded bud from them is weird so I have a couple theories and I'm hoping for some feedback. First thing is, do hermies present that are sterile sometimes? For whatever reason, I've picked countless off and it seems like most of them didn't have any pollen in them? Anyone have the same experience? Also, from what I've seen and experienced thus far, most if not all, hermies come from the inside of plant originating from buds that are somewhat underdeveloped? Is that what u guys have seen also? If that's mostly the case, do you think under canopy lighting would help to prevent them? Perhaps under canopy lighting doesn't help to increase yields at all? Maybe it's just an insurance policy, like Switch. Any thoughts?

Please use paragraphs.

Thank you

 

[ebcrew]

I believe its unstable genetics. You'll see breeders drop 20-30 crosses of a plant. I doubt they even care about stabilizing a strain. Just sell, sell, sell. Its gotten worse over the years. Seems like every fucking plant these days herm in one form or another.

 

[xtsho]

What are you talking about? I've been growing for decades and the only hermaphroditic plants I've ever had were from landraces.

There may be people with plants that develop into hermaphrodites but the majority of that is going to be caused by something in the growers control and it's not prevalent among growers that know how to grow. If there becoming more prevalent it's because there are more growers and many of the newer growers are causing hermaphroditism by stressing their plants in some way. Overfeeding stresses a plant and with all these nutrient lines with a dozen bottles and feed charts that sometimes have growers feeding 3.0 ec it's a pretty common stress factor that is caused by the grower.

There are definitely genetics people are growing that are more prone to hermaphroditism but you make it sound like it's some big issue everyone is dealing with. I don't think it is.

To preemptively use some crap like optic foliar switch is ridiculous. Most growers don't get hermies so why would they spray that junk on their plants. If you're having so many issues with hermies you would be better off figuring out what you're doing to cause it and fix it instead of reaching for another product in a bottle.

I believe its unstable genetics. You'll see breeders drop 20-30 crosses of a plant. I doubt they even care about stabilizing a strain. Just sell, sell, sell. Its gotten worse over the years. Seems like every fucking plant these days herm in one form or another.

Yes there is crap out there but I've never had any issues with herms. I primarily grow landraces, IBL's, stuff from European outfits, or my own stuff. I have noticed that with the explosion of these US pollen chuckers and their so called designer strains people wait for anxiously to "Drop" that it does appear to be an increase in issues with genetics.

Also, the term "Breeder" is used much too often. Many of these people are not breeding anything. They're just crossing strains and making seeds. Making F1's is not breeding and is something anyone can do which is why I find it odd that so many people pay over and over again for seeds.

 

[VincenzioVonHook]

Genetics make all the difference. Grown many plants outdoors in terrible environments and they never had seeds or nanners, and none hermied, yet I've seen people blame a pin prick light leak (that dont physically emit enough flux to cause these issues btw) for somehow turning a whole crop, even though their environments are on point.

Some strains are just assholes. I live with a dude that doesn't believe in light leaks (as in he leaves vents opened in lit rooms during lights out, turns the lights on to inspect constantly during lights out) and has never had an issue with herms. Meanwhile I know plenty of people with air con/humidifiers, CO2 supplemental and heavily controlled environments that end up with hermies most grows somehow. For that reason alone I don't pay much attention to environment. Think about it, most people here that get hermies also have a far better environment than I, and most do, yet a bunch of newbies can grow in 80% humidity with high temps and not have a problem.


I've chosen the "don't give a fuck, don't believe In hermies" mentality, had terrible temps and humidity for most of my grows, topped the last auto four times over the first two weeks, used shit medium, burned the plant with said acidic medium, harvested the top of the plant early, and have a terrible feed schedule, yet I haven't dealt with a single Hermie or seed, and look to have around 200g off my first indoor auto.

Just watch. I'll wake up tomorrow to a plant that has replaced every calyx with a pollen sac now out of spite. I swear hermies chase people that put in extra effort.

 

[VincenzioVonHook]

What are you talking about? I've been growing for decades and the only hermaphroditic plants I've ever had were from landraces.

There may be people with plants that develop into hermaphrodites but the majority of that is going to be caused by something in the growers control and it's not prevalent among growers that know how to grow. If there becoming more prevalent it's because there are more growers and many of the newer growers are causing hermaphroditism by stressing their plants in some way. Overfeeding stresses a plant and with all these nutrient lines with a dozen bottles and feed charts that sometimes have growers feeding 3.0 ec it's a pretty common stress factor that is caused by the grower.

There are definitely genetics people are growing that are more prone to hermaphroditism but you make it sound like it's some big issue everyone is dealing with. I don't think it is.

To preemptively use some crap like optic foliar switch is ridiculous. Most growers don't get hermies so why would they spray that junk on their plants. If you're having so many issues with hermies you would be better off figuring out what you're doing to cause it and fix it instead of reaching for another product in a bottle.



Yes there is crap out there but I've never had any issues with herms. I primarily grow landraces, IBL's, stuff from European outfits, or my own stuff. I have noticed that with the explosion of these US pollen chuckers and their so called designer strains people wait for anxiously to "Drop" that it does appear to be an increase in issues with genetics.

Also, the term "Breeder" is used much too often. Many of these people are not breeding anything. They're just crossing strains and making seeds. Making F1's is not breeding and is something anyone can do which is why I find it odd that so many people pay over and over again for seeds.

My point as.well. I'm far from a good grower, and have extremely high temps and humidity where I'm at with no environmental control, yet I've never had a Herm. I swear they follow people on this site. Now that I'm here I bet you I'll magically get herms every grow.

 

[Flowki]

I've had this issues twice. The first time I am certain was bad genetics, it was catored for in many ways in multiple runs and was consistently the only one to ever show issues. It wasn't worth chasing it any longer.

The second time was very likely my fault. New leds, tried a new layout and got stuck logistically with light distances. One of them was a new strain but I feel certain it was light stress. Hope so, as that issue is fixed and giving it another chance.

 

[xtsho]

My point as.well. I'm far from a good grower, and have extremely high temps and humidity where I'm at with no environmental control, yet I've never had a Herm. I swear they follow people on this site. Now that I'm here I bet you I'll magically get herms every grow.

Well then you better start spraying Optic Foliar Switch on your plants.

 

[Bukvičák]

What are you talking about? I've been growing for decades and the only hermaphroditic plants I've ever had were from landraces.

There may be people with plants that develop into hermaphrodites but the majority of that is going to be caused by something in the growers control and it's not prevalent among growers that know how to grow. If there becoming more prevalent it's because there are more growers and many of the newer growers are causing hermaphroditism by stressing their plants in some way. Overfeeding stresses a plant and with all these nutrient lines with a dozen bottles and feed charts that sometimes have growers feeding 3.0 ec it's a pretty common stress factor that is caused by the grower.

There are definitely genetics people are growing that are more prone to hermaphroditism but you make it sound like it's some big issue everyone is dealing with. I don't think it is.

To preemptively use some crap like optic foliar switch is ridiculous. Most growers don't get hermies so why would they spray that junk on their plants. If you're having so many issues with hermies you would be better off figuring out what you're doing to cause it and fix it instead of reaching for another product in a bottle.



Yes there is crap out there but I've never had any issues with herms. I primarily grow landraces, IBL's, stuff from European outfits, or my own stuff. I have noticed that with the explosion of these US pollen chuckers and their so called designer strains people wait for anxiously to "Drop" that it does appear to be an increase in issues with genetics.

Also, the term "Breeder" is used much too often. Many of these people are not breeding anything. They're just crossing strains and making seeds. Making F1's is not breeding and is something anyone can do which is why I find it odd that so many people pay over and over again for seeds.

Totally agree about “breeders” but what do you mean “pollen chuckers”?I dunno what you are talking about... you have mentioned it many times also in other threads, so I googled “chucker” ended up even more confused. I live in EU and I was basicaly depending on seeds since there is no possibility to buy cuts legal way. I have NOT growing FOR decades but I was growing decade ago and do not remember issues like this. And I believe that back in those days I was much more noobish than I am these days. Maybe I just was not noticing that... Nowadays I see all kind of mutations and shits begin with true herms, fasciated branches ending up whorled phylotaxy on “daily” basis. Days when it was about quality are gone, those hybrids all around are retarded and rarely get plant without some mutation from seed. Of course together with my fuckups it is sometimes real mid. Respect xtsho

 

[xtsho]

Totally agree about “breeders” but what do you mean “pollen chuckers”?I dunno what you are talking about... you have mentioned it many times also in other threads, so I googled “chucker” ended up even more confused. I live in EU and I was basicaly depending on seeds since there is no possibility to buy cuts legal way. I have NOT growing FOR decades but I was growing decade ago and do not remember issues like this. And I believe that back in those days I was much more noobish than I am these days. Maybe I just was not noticing that... Nowadays I see all kind of mutations and shits begin with true herms, fasciated branches ending up whorled phylotaxy on “daily” basis. Days when it was about quality are gone, those hybrids all around are retarded and rarely get plant without some mutation from seed. Of course together with my fuckups it is sometimes real mid. Respect xtsho

Pollen Chucking just refers to taking pollen and pollinating females for crosses without necessarily having a goal other than making a cross. Where breeding is more in depth with actual end goals established such as isolating specific characteristics and breeding out multiple generations to isolate those characteristics that are desired.

Actual breeding takes years. Pollen chucking is as simple as collecting pollen and pollinating a different strain with that pollen. The pollen can come from males or reversed plants. Typically it comes from a reversed plant so that the F1 seeds are feminized since that's what the majority of people buying seeds want.

There is a thread on this site called Chuckers Paradise. Lots of people make their own strains, seed, etc... I have strains I've been working on for years. I have some that could be considered IBL as I've taken them into F6-F7 generations and they are stable with the seeds producing a majority of plants nearly identical with a low instance of a slightly different pheno.


Take a look at some of what people are doing.

Chuckers paradise......

crosses you have made,or things you want to make..... I'll start with a few...of the things I work.. And mad respect,to the folks that have grown these.. Yoga flame (fire alien kush x plat.bubba/jo og) Candy grape og(Candydrop x stomper og) Antidote kush(rp's og x force og) Dessert breath...

rollitup.org

There are good breeders in EU. Look at ACE, Cannobiogen, Dutch Passion, Sensi, and some will give me grief for mentioning them but Nirvana has some good stuff as well. All of those should be available to you.

 

[WattSaver]

Ok lets start with you've had lots of hermie grows, I believe the balls you've been picking are really female pods (for lack of a better term) these show up in the branch crotch where naner balls show, they are harmless and only occur on certain strains (but many). But without photos can't say for sure. I an not the authority on hermies but I've dealt with them many times and all with the Bay-11 strain (my fav) . Last summer I grew a twice topped but still 9' tall Bay-11 outdoors and had no problems but the clone from it I grown indoors seeded up the whole room (environment?). So I can't say definitely what causes a hermie but I do believe that genetics are the prime source but operator error is a close second (maybe in ways we don't know)

 

[Bukvičák]

Pollen Chucking just refers to taking pollen and pollinating females for crosses without necessarily having a goal other than making a cross. Where breeding is more in depth with actual end goals established such as isolating specific characteristics and breeding out multiple generations to isolate those characteristics that are desired.

Actual breeding takes years. Pollen chucking is as simple as collecting pollen and pollinating a different strain with that pollen. The pollen can come from males or reversed plants. Typically it comes from a reversed plant so that the F1 seeds are feminized since that's what the majority of people buying seeds want.

There is a thread on this site called Chuckers Paradise. Lots of people make their own strains, seed, etc... I have strains I've been working on for years. I have some that could be considered IBL as I've taken them into F6-F7 generations and they are stable with the seeds producing a majority of plants nearly identical with a low instance of a slightly different pheno.


Take a look at some of what people are doing.

Chuckers paradise......

crosses you have made,or things you want to make..... I'll start with a few...of the things I work.. And mad respect,to the folks that have grown these.. Yoga flame (fire alien kush x plat.bubba/jo og) Candy grape og(Candydrop x stomper og) Antidote kush(rp's og x force og) Dessert breath...

rollitup.org

There are good breeders in EU. Look at ACE, Cannobiogen, Dutch Passion, Sensi, and some will give me grief for mentioning them but Nirvana has some good stuff as well. All of those should be available to you.

Thank you for an explanation, thats exactly what I thought. Also Thanks for recommending, but I have already gave up on seeds. I can very clearly imagine how do they making fem seeds the cheapest way. Luckily hunted one few runs before, needed to make cut before flower, than flower it out, reveg the flowered cuts and make cuts. Now she is sticking around waiting for late summer, so at least I have something previous in my hands. But this is probably my end since I do not have possibilities to making my own selection as you do. So you are basically breeder in its real meaning dont you?

 

[Bukvičák]

Pollen Chucking just refers to taking pollen and pollinating females for crosses without necessarily having a goal other than making a cross. Where breeding is more in depth with actual end goals established such as isolating specific characteristics and breeding out multiple generations to isolate those characteristics that are desired.

Actual breeding takes years. Pollen chucking is as simple as collecting pollen and pollinating a different strain with that pollen. The pollen can come from males or reversed plants. Typically it comes from a reversed plant so that the F1 seeds are feminized since that's what the majority of people buying seeds want.

There is a thread on this site called Chuckers Paradise. Lots of people make their own strains, seed, etc... I have strains I've been working on for years. I have some that could be considered IBL as I've taken them into F6-F7 generations and they are stable with the seeds producing a majority of plants nearly identical with a low instance of a slightly different pheno.


Take a look at some of what people are doing.

Chuckers paradise......

crosses you have made,or things you want to make..... I'll start with a few...of the things I work.. And mad respect,to the folks that have grown these.. Yoga flame (fire alien kush x plat.bubba/jo og) Candy grape og(Candydrop x stomper og) Antidote kush(rp's og x force og) Dessert breath...

rollitup.org

There are good breeders in EU. Look at ACE, Cannobiogen, Dutch Passion, Sensi, and some will give me grief for mentioning them but Nirvana has some good stuff as well. All of those should be available to you.

But one thing is still drilling my head. Who is actually waiting for the “drop” and why? I mean is it some kind of difficulty to produce your own pollen? Or is it just easier to make seeds by flowering your plants and buy a pollen from some Chuck Norris? And than, at the end are not those seeds just regular ones? Sorry for these dumb questions but I would like to understand it as a complex thing. If you do not mind to share...

 

[Bukvičák]

Ok lets start with you've had lots of hermie grows, I believe the balls you've been picking are really female pods (for lack of a better term) these show up in the branch crotch where naner balls show, they are harmless and only occur on certain strains (but many). But without photos can't say for sure. I an not the authority on hermies but I've dealt with them many times and all with the Bay-11 strain (my fav) . Last summer I grew a twice topped but still 9' tall Bay-11 outdoors and had no problems but the clone from it I grown indoors seeded up the whole room (environment?). So I can't say definitely what causes a hermie but I do believe that genetics are the prime source but operator error is a close second (maybe in ways we don't know)

Are you talking about this?

 

[Jules1976]

I've been growing for a few years, and unfortunately, I've already had my fair share of hermies, but I have a feeling, hermies are much more prevalent than we all admit, because in the wild, hermies are good; they amount to self preservation and survival of the fittest, which would essentially be, the plant most efficient at pollinating itself. The plant with the biggest swinging dick on the block, even if it's a female, is the one that's going to be around a decade or a century from now. Hermies keep strains growing that otherwise would not have so we should all be thankful in that regard...BUT, as we all know, hermies and huge dank buds can't coexist, and we smoke and like, huge dank buds. It's a conundrum which brings me to the point of my post. I suppose anything that makes the plant insecure, in any way, could potentially cause a hermie. Plants are unique from one another, just like all of us, what makes one plant insecure might not make another plant insecure so I think we should all assume we're gonna have some, every time. That being said, after week 3 of flower, I cut all my oscillating fans just in case. I make sure my overall circulation is good with intake and exhaust, just no oscillating fans. In addition, I was doing a foliar of kelp under the canopy to help render an pollen that exists ineffective but recently I've been using Optic Foliar Switch and have had great results with both but I've seen hermies on every grow and I've only had seeded bud on my very first grow. Im sure what I'm doing has helped but to not have any seeded bud from them is weird so I have a couple theories and I'm hoping for some feedback. First thing is, do hermies present that are sterile sometimes? For whatever reason, I've picked countless off and it seems like most of them didn't have any pollen in them? Anyone have the same experience? Also, from what I've seen and experienced thus far, most if not all, hermies come from the inside of plant originating from buds that are somewhat underdeveloped? Is that what u guys have seen also? If that's mostly the case, do you think under canopy lighting would help to prevent them? Perhaps under canopy lighting doesn't help to increase yields at all? Maybe it's just an insurance policy, like Switch. Any thoughts?

Why do you turn off oscillating fans ?

 

[Southernontariogrower]

Even for a herm looks very nice! Id say genetics play key role in problems. Lots of great genetics to be had. Best of luck with garden.

 

[WattSaver]

Are you talking about this?
View attachment 4915306
View attachment 4915304
View attachment 4915305

Yes and thats a beautiful male flower in the last photo. Saw a lot of those in my last harvest.