They're at it anew...The cannabis industry's next war: How strong should its weed be?

BurtMaklin

Well-Known Member
Lol, capping the potency of a plant is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I guess the big producers will be happy, 15% THC weed in only 4 weeks per crop. Think of the possibilities, 12 crops per year!!!!

What's next? Limiting the number of seeds in cucumbers?

Limit whatever you want, won't change my life.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
America’s Pot Labs Have A THC Problem | FiveThirtyEight

America’s Pot Labs Have A THC Problem

Keegan Skeate was working the night shift when he first heard about the scam. The 26-year-old was only a few months into his new job at Praxis Laboratory, a Washington state lab that conducts consumer safety tests and THC potency analysis for legal cannabis products. During one quiet shift in 2018, a fellow lab technician walked over to Skeate and told him that she thought someone was manipulating her test results. She said that the numbers in her spreadsheets looked irregular and the recorded THC potency values were higher than she remembered measuring.

Over multiple interviews with FiveThirtyEight about his time at Praxis, Skeate explained what happened next. When he reexamined his own test results, he saw a similar pattern.

“I honestly believed her and did think the numbers were changed,” Skeate recently said. “It was a moral dilemma where I really didn’t know what to do. Do you tell someone? Do you quit, or do you just keep working? I kept working and I don’t really think that was the right thing to do.”

That was the spring of 2018. By the end of 2020, Skeate would lose his job, the local police would recommend criminal charges against him for blocking his boss from a company database, and the young software developer would become the latest whistleblower tangled in one of the legal cannabis industry’s thorniest problems: how to stop corrupt pot labs from profiting off manipulated test results.

America’s legal weed industry sold over $17 billion of pot last year and the industry’s obsession with THC, pot’s most famous intoxicant, has created financial rewards for every marginal increase in THC potency. Weed shoppers use THC percentages like nutritional labels, purchasing products based on their THC content, yet the lab system entrusted with measuring the compound is vulnerable to corruption. Laboratories across the country have been suspended or fined for manipulating potency results, having deficient procedures for detecting contaminants like mold or faking those contaminant tests altogether.

“THC inflation is pernicious, it’s easy to accomplish and there are strong financial incentives to do it,” said Don Land, a professor of chemistry and forensics at the University of California, Davis, and an adviser to the multistate cannabis lab company Steep Hill. “I believe that it is likely to happen at least infrequently in every market out there, and there’s very little chance that labs would get caught.”

Corrupt labs are cheating customers out of the pot they think they’re buying, and the industry’s potential problems with lab fraud are unlikely to go away as more states legalize weed and regulations grow increasingly dependent on measuring THC. New York plans to tax cannabis by THC content when commercial sales begin in the next few years. And there’s a growing nationwide movement to limit the THC content of legal products. But how can you collect taxes or enforce laws based on a product’s THC potency if you can’t trust how much THC is actually there?

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THC percentage is part of the way pot is displayed at dispensaries, in part because consumers sometimes make decisions based on those potency values. JOSH EDELSON / AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES

OBSESSED WITH THC
Pot advocates have long argued that legalizing weed would improve public health by putting consumer safety regulations on America’s favorite illicit substance. Underground markets are notoriously bad at protecting consumers, whether it’s tainted moonshine killing people in the 1920s or illegal THC vape cartridges killing people in 2019, so establishing safety standards should, the argument goes, make society safer.

In America’s booming legal weed industry, state governments have delegated their regulatory eyes to private, for-profit cannabis labs. Pot farmers and processors must pay private, state-certified labs to conduct batch-specific tests before any product can be sold to consumers. The samples must pass a quality assurance check — ensuring they aren’t contaminated with things like E. coli or mold — and be tested for their cannabinoid potency, usually by measuring the presence of pot’s two most common active compounds: cannabidiol (CBD) and tetrahydrocannabinol (THC).

In theory, this testing system should be more robust than other consumer products, like produce or alcohol, which are usually only tested when there is a suspected safety issue. But in practice, some labs across the country have been accused of fraud. Labs have been caught inflating THC potency levels, passing moldy cannabis as safe, and even making up results entirely. A blistering 2019 audit of Oregon’s testing system found that the state’s testing program “cannot ensure that test results are reliable and products are safe” and said the state regulatory program had “limited authority, inadequate staffing and inefficient processes.”

Experts say that lab corruption is widespread because the incentives to cheat are too high and enforcement is mostly ineffective. “The people paying for the tests are happier to get inaccurate tests that say [their products] are more potent than they really are,” Land said.
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
cont...
These lab tests have serious financial impacts on America’s multi-billion-dollar legal cannabis market. If a sample fails its quality assurance test, a farmer could have to destroy an entire crop of cannabis. And THC potencies have become a benchmark for both wholesale and retail cannabis prices for cured flower products, the common form of cannabis used for smoking. A 2018 study of 31 million cannabis transactions in Washington state between 2014 and 2016 found that listed THC potency had a statistically significant relationship with price, with a 1 percentage point increase in THC potency associated with a 1 to 2 percentage point increase in price per gram. Interestingly, the study found that the state’s market was dominated by pot that had tested over 15 percent potency, with only 7.5 percent of all pot sold during the study period testing below that figure. California’s market has a very similar dynamic, with over 95 percent of all cured flower products sold in 2020 testing at above 14 percent THC, according to Flowhub, a cannabis software company. California’s retail prices were also correlated with THC potency, with low-potency pot (between 7 and 14 percent THC) selling for an average of $5.31 per gram while pot that tested higher than 21 percent THC sold for more than $11 per gram, on average.

More potent pot tends to be priced higher in California
Market share and price of legal marijuana by listed level of THC, 2020
THC LEVELSHARE OF TRANSACTIONSRETAIL PRICE/GRAM
Very Low<7%0.3%$8.40
Low7-144.05.31
Medium14-2139.87.37
High21-2844.711.06
Very High>=2811.112.89
Cured flower products only.
SOURCE: FLOWHUB
For Julia Jacobson, the CEO of Northern California’s Aster Farms, there’s no question that THC defines the terms of pot commerce in California.


“The pressure is real. Full stop. We have some retailers who love us, who sell out of our products, and they will only put our product on their shelves when it tests over 20 percent,” Jacobson said. “The buyers are always caveating, saying, ‘We know there’s so much more to cannabis and its effects [than just THC], but our consumers are still THC hunting.’”

Jacobson said her company doesn’t even try to sell batches that test under 15 percent THC, and instead uses those batches as promotional samples or turns them into oil for edibles or vape cartridges.

The market’s obsession with marginally higher THC potencies does not appear to be based on any kind of science or expert advice. A University of Colorado Boulder study published last year did not find a correlation between higher THC products and stronger subjective “high” effects. Cannabis aficionados have long claimed that THC potency is a poor measure of cannabis quality, equating shopping for pot based on THC potency with shopping for wine or beer based only on alcohol content.

“There’s a sungrown brand and they had a batch that was 12 percent THC but … that weed just did it for me,” said Andrew DeAngelo, a widely respected cannabis advocate and co-founder of Oakland’s Harborside Dispensary. “I don’t want to name the brand because I don’t want people to think it’s a low-potency brand, it’s not.”

A VULNERABLE SYSTEM
Allegations of lab fraud have dogged the legal cannabis industry from the beginning of commercial pot sales, especially in Washington state, where recreational pot has been legally sold since 2014. Observers have known about the problem in part because lab data is public in Washington, allowing data scientists to analyze the test results of individual labs.

One of those scientists is Jim MacRae, a private consultant to pot companies based in the Seattle suburbs. Verbose, profane and tinged with a Canadian accent, MacRae has been a thorn in the side of Washington’s lab industry since 2015, when the state first started releasing its traceability database, which tracks products as they are grown, tested and sold. MacRae has a Ph.D. in experimental psychology and spent over a decade as a data scientist for the pharmaceutical company Merck. He uses the state’s pot data to identify problematic behavior by lab operators, similar to how the Department of Justice uses health care prescription data to spot doctors or pharmacists who are overprescribing opioids. MacRae publishes his analysis in meandering blog posts that are punctuated by damning analysis of how the testing industry’s perverse incentives affect the entire market.

In late 2015, MacRae published data showing that, in a three-month period, four of Washington state’s 14 certified labs had tested tens of thousands of samples without ever failing a sample for microbial contamination, while other labs failed as many as 45 percent of samples. Four months later, the state suspended one of those four labs for six months, finding the lab had given the highest THC averages in the state and “put the public health and safety at risk by exposing the public to … marijuana products that have not been properly or accurately tested for microbial contamination and other risks.”
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CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
I’m pretty sure cannabis growers who are selling to dispensaries test their own product, so they know what’s going on.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
I’m pretty sure cannabis growers who are selling to dispensaries test their own product, so they know what’s going on.
I believe the lab situation in Canada is different because of it's legal statues nationally and the fact you can mail samples. The federal government is involved on the medical end and the provincial governments on the recreational who also have an interest. Here is a report a buddy had done at one of the labs here in NS for a CBD plant.

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Boreal Curing

Well-Known Member
I believe the lab situation in Canada is different because of it's legal statues nationally and the fact you can mail samples. The federal government is involved on the medical end and the provincial governments on the recreational who also have an interest. Here is a report a buddy had done at one of the labs here in NS for a CBD plant.

[snip]
Yup. More than one product was recalled because of inaccurate Labeling. Imaging getting hit with a 25% sativa THC oil cap, when you expected 12% CBD. Yikes!

Now imagine being the LP who is recalling millions of dollars of product.

Labs need to be certified by Health Canada, so you can't do it in your basement.
 

injinji

Well-Known Member
Just weigh up 1 gram of seeds, then weigh them all.

So if 7 seeds is 1 gram, and you have 200gr of total seeds, then:
7*200=1400 seeds.

If 4 seeds is 1 gram, and you have 677gr of seeds, then:
4*677=2708 seeds.

(:
I was kidding. I have no need to know. And I only have a couple three strains with more than a pint of seeds. Most are well less than that.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Rick Steves: Pot is now used by Mom and Dad. And Grandma's rubbing it on her elbows (opinion) - CNN

Rick Steves: Pot is now used by Mom and Dad. And Grandma's rubbing it on her elbows
Opinion by Rick Steves

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"It's time to recognize the civil liberty of mature American adults to enjoy smoking pot in their own homes and to do so without breaking the law," writes Rick Steves.

Rick Steves is a travel writer, public television host and chair of the board of NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. Follow him on Twitter. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his own. View more opinion at CNN.


(CNN)I'm a hard-working, kid-raising, churchgoing, tax-paying American. And if I work hard all day and want to go home, smoke a joint and stare at my fireplace for three hours, that's my civil liberty. This is my basic, principled message on marijuana legalization, a cause I've promoted for many years.

But my interest is grounded in something more: 50 years ago, President Richard Nixon declared war on drugs. And his administration made sure to include marijuana as a public enemy, even listing it in the "Schedule I" category of drugs, alongside heroin and cocaine, where it remains to this day. In the decades since, millions of Americans have been arrested and imprisoned on marijuana charges.

It has long been obvious that our nation's marijuana laws seem to be built on lies and racism and are an affront to civil liberties. As a travel writer and television host, I've seen how other nations -- such as the Netherlands and Portugal -- have tackled the complicated issue of marijuana in ways that are arguably more effective than ours, and at far less cost, both in money and the toll on human lives.

While it's true that marijuana, like any drug, can be harmful and abused, it is also true that we can and should have smarter policies about it, based on pragmatically reducing harm rather than moralizing, overreacting and locking people up.
I started speaking out on marijuana when I realized that it was easier for me than for other people -- I had a public platform and no concern about being re-elected or fired over marijuana. It seemed like a matter of good citizenship. And as I started sharing what I had learned from my European travels, I became more active in the cause.

Things are changing quickly in the US. Since the 1990s, more than 35 states have legalized marijuana for medical use, and since 2012, 18 states have made it legal for adults to consume marijuana for enjoyment. I was a co-sponsor, leading funder and spokesperson for a 2012 bill in my home state, Washington, which joined Colorado that same year as the first to legalize pot for recreational use.

Progress has been steady in the last 10 years. At first it was the more progressive states that legalized through their initiative process. The next two were Oregon and Alaska in 2014, then California, Maine, Massachusetts, and Nevada in 2016, Michigan and Illinois in 2018, and four more in 2020. In just the last few months, legislatures in five more states, including New York and New Mexico, have legalized.

While opponents painted a gloomy picture of what legalizing recreational marijuana would do to society, many supporters predicted only upsides. But there was a lot that people didn't know. Would teen use increase? Would road safety suffer? Would there be a "gateway effect," with more people abusing hard drugs after trying pot? Would society become one big hempfest?

No one knew for certain, because no country or state had ever done what Washington and Colorado did. Now we have a track record. Marijuana use has crept up a bit across society, but by every state's statistics, teen use has not. And marijuana has not become the much-feared "gateway" to harder drugs.

It's harder for teens to get marijuana now, since it is no longer sold so much by criminals on the street, but by legal retail outlets with strict attention to the nationwide 21-year-old age limit.

And the mystique of sharing something illegal has lost its appeal. Pot is now used by Mom and Dad. And Grandma's rubbing it on her elbows.

States also report that legal marijuana does not imperil road safety. Researchers have found no appreciable difference in traffic deaths in states where medical marijuana is legal and widespread and those where it is not.

One clear and predictable effect of the nationwide push to take the crime out of the marijuana equation is that black markets that have long enriched and empowered street gangs and organized crime have been replaced by thriving and highly taxed legal markets that employ thousands of people in rural corners, where such employment has been much needed, and generate billions of dollars in state taxes.

Consider, too, that the underground trade in marijuana has over decades resulted in huge numbers of arrests and imprisonments, costing taxpayers billions of dollars, diverting limited law enforcement resources away from more serious challenges, and contributing to the United States' disastrous mass incarceration problem.

In Washington, where illegal marijuana once rivaled apples as the leading cash crop, marijuana is now a billion-dollar legal market generating $469 million in tax revenue in 2020, much of it earmarked for health projects and drug education and awareness. Our governor, Jay Inslee -- who was elected in 2012, the year we legalized marijuana, and didn't originally support that law -- now sees its wisdom and is thankful that, rather than chasing down pot smokers, he can now tax the businesses that grow and sell it legally.

And as our country grapples with systemic racism, the racist dimension of marijuana prohibition has become very clear. Wealthy, privileged, white people like me rarely get arrested for marijuana. But poor people, Black people and other people of color have had their lives changed forever because of the 50-year-old war on marijuana. Nixon's war on marijuana had a racist agenda from the start, and our society has paid a huge price for embracing it.

With millions of black ex-felons unable to vote because of their marijuana possession convictions, the status quo is rightly called "the New Jim Crow."

Thankfully, in the last few years states are recognizing the built-in racism in this prohibition. They are working to ensure that communities of color, having paid the dearest price for our war on marijuana, are the first to see the benefits of the newly legalized market, and that portions of the tax revenue raised from new cannabis sales are reinvested in the communities most ravaged by our War on Drugs. We also need to clear the records of people with marijuana convictions, something the governors of Illinois and Washington have made a priority.
more...
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
They released a report in my state claiming 70% of sales are black market. Sounds like they are gearing up to go after medical care givers and home grows again, all they care about is money and control. I've sampled weed from a few dispensaries around here and it was over priced crap, not much better than brickweed.
 

Boreal Curing

Well-Known Member
It took 15 years to get rid of the bootleggers after prohibition ended. The BM will be here for a while.

It may not take 15 years this time, but even @3-400/lb you can still get a decent bonus once or twice a year. 100 lbs pays off some bills and still keep your pocket flush.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
It took 15 years to get rid of the bootleggers after prohibition ended. The BM will be here for a while.

It may not take 15 years this time, but even @3-400/lb you can still get a decent bonus once or twice a year. 100 lbs pays off some bills and still keep your pocket flush.
As long as provinces and states along with their industry insiders keep prices high, there will be a BM. People are paying $10/gram retail in many places, here in NS government dope can be as high as $15/gram. In Canada pot is legal federally and it and clones can be mailed, there are many online BM dispensaries and an ounce of pot can be had for $99 CDN. You usually pay via email money transfer and they always deliver since they don't want any heat.

Only in Canada though, BTW Happy Canada Day!
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Best Online Dispensary Canada - Top 6 List - The Chronic Beaver

Find the best online dispensary Canada 2021.
Updated May 26, 2021

Since early 2019 Mail Order Marijuana (MOM) online dispensaries have flourished shortly after Cannabis was legalized in Canada back in late 2018. Now with well over 300 online dispensaries established, finding the best online dispensary in Canada can be a challenging task. If you are searching for some peace of mind when you buy weed online, this article is sure to help.
 

injinji

Well-Known Member
Ya never know. My first seed run was in the thousands (a sad accident. lol).
I've made a few of those runs. I hung up smoking and growing for 12 years. I lost all my seeds while I was on the wagon, so when I started back I was at the mercy of friends and family. The first couple of three years back I made lots of seeds. Never want to be in that position again. I still make far more than I need. But like you said, you never know. One day it might be legal here and I'll go in the seed business.
 

injinji

Well-Known Member
It took 15 years to get rid of the bootleggers after prohibition ended. The BM will be here for a while.

It may not take 15 years this time, but even @3-400/lb you can still get a decent bonus once or twice a year. 100 lbs pays off some bills and still keep your pocket flush.
Daddy gave up making whiskey in 1955 when my granddad got a year and a day in the state pen. But you can still find a pint of untaxed whiskey when you know the right folks. The black market in weed will never go away.
 
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