Will You Take The Vaccine?
- Thread starter Unclebaldrick
- Start date
NoWayOut
Well-Known Member
FK NO
printer
Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Breakthrough cases aren’t the cause of the US Covid-19 surge
Unvaccinated people still make up the vast majority of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths.
Breakthrough cases aren’t the cause of the US Covid-19 surge
Unvaccinated people still make up the vast majority of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths.
The last week’s headlines were not comforting for Americans vaccinated for Covid-19.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention changed its guidance to recommend everyone, regardless of vaccination status, wear masks in Covid-19 hot spots. A study of an outbreak in Provincetown, Massachusetts, found around three-quarters of people infected there were vaccinated. As cases increase nationwide, it’s understandable to think that breakthrough cases (infections in vaccinated people) are now a main driver of the ongoing Covid-19 surge.
But the evidence is clear: The problem is the unvaccinated population. If more people got the vaccines, the current surge wouldn’t be as big; it certainly wouldn’t lead to the levels of hospitalization and death now seen across the US. This was true months ago, and remains true today.
Unvaccinated people still make up the vast majority of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. They’ve made up more than 94 percent of reported Covid-19 cases in states with available data, a report last week from the Kaiser Family Foundation found. They’ve also made up similar, or higher, shares of hospitalizations and deaths.
Then there’s what really happened in the Provincetown outbreak. The headlines noted three-fourths of people infected by the virus were vaccinated. But among the more than 900 cases tracked as a result of the outbreak, just seven led to hospitalization — and there were zero deaths. If this was 2020, when there were no vaccines, closer to 90 people would have been hospitalized and about nine would have died, based on hospitalization and death rates over the last year.
“The vaccines are upholding their promise to massively prevent serious disease, hospitalizations, and death,” Monica Gandhi, an infectious diseases doctor at the University of California San Francisco, told me. “That’s the main message I get from that outbreak.”
If every outbreak in the country today looked like the one in Provincetown, the coronavirus would be defanged. The virus would make a small number of people seriously ill, but, like the seasonal flu or a common cold, would mostly produce relatively mild symptoms or none at all.
That’s not to say that America can throw caution to the wind. For one, Massachusetts, where more than 72 percent of all people have received at least one dose of the vaccine, leads every other state but Vermont on vaccination. Some states, particularly in the South and parts of the Midwest and West, still have one-dose rates below 50, 45, or even 40 percent. So an outbreak in Provincetown looks very different from one in Jackson, Mississippi.
There are also genuine unknowns about breakthrough cases. We still don’t know just how likely a vaccinated person is to get infected and transmit the virus to someone else. Nor do we know how many vaccinated people with breakthrough infections will suffer longer-term effects (colloquially known as long Covid) that aren’t unique to the coronavirus but can be detrimental or even life-changing.
Nor is there enough research and data to draw final conclusions about the role of the delta variant, which spreads more easily and may evade the body’s immune response better than past versions of the virus. Future variants could complicate matters even further.
Still, the vaccines are very effective. The evidence continues to show the vaccines reduce the virus’s rate of spread, delta or not. Even when a vaccinated person is exposed to the coronavirus, the chances of hospitalization and death are near zero. In fact, experts said, the vast majority of breakthrough cases are likely to produce no symptoms whatsoever.
“This was a hard week,” Gandhi said. “But my conclusions are relatively unchanged.” She emphasized: “We need to get a lot more people vaccinated.”
What we know and don’t about breakthrough cases
The vaccines aren’t perfect. When the news broke last year that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines reported more than 90 percent efficacy, that was certainly much better than the 50 percent or so efficacy rate that some experts and officials expected. But that’s not 100 percent. In fact, there’s no such thing as a perfect, 100-percent-effective vaccine for any illness.
Given that, some breakthrough cases were always expected, even before the delta variant.
Here’s what we know about breakthrough cases: They do happen, but the majority produce no symptoms and the vast majority cause no serious symptoms, hospitalizations, or deaths. According to a review of the evidence by the CDC, data from the UK, Canada, and Israel shows the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is more than 90 percent effective against hospitalization or death, even with the delta variant. The CDC estimated unvaccinated people are eight times as likely to get the virus and experience disease symptoms, 25 times as likely to be hospitalized, and 24 times as likely to die, compared to people who are vaccinated.
Although not every state, nor the CDC, is attempting to track all reported breakthrough cases, the data we do have from about 25 states suggests the vast majority of serious cases, hospitalizations, and deaths still involve the unvaccinated. In Virginia, for example, 99 percent of cases and 98 percent of hospitalizations and deaths this year, as of July 30, were among people who weren’t fully vaccinated. The total reported breakthrough case rate among vaccinated people was 0.034 percent. The hospitalization rate among reported breakthrough cases was 0.0032 percent. The breakthrough death rate was 0.0009 percent.
The report from the Kaiser Family Foundation found similar numbers for other states that reported Covid-19 breakthrough data for at least a month.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
cont...
“The overwhelming conclusion of all this evidence is that breakthrough events are extremely rare,” Jen Kates, director of global health and HIV policy at the Kaiser Family Foundation, told me. “They’re not the driver.”
It’s also very likely that the vaccines reduce rates of spread, perhaps quite significantly. Brown University School of Public Health dean Ashish Jha succinctly summarized what I heard from experts time and again over the past week: “Vaccinated people are far far far less likely to spread the virus than unvaccinated people.” Since vaccinated people are less likely to get infected by the virus to begin with, they’re less likely to spread it to others, too.
But we don’t know exactly how much the vaccines reduce the risk of spreading the coronavirus among the infected, including those without symptoms. Before the Provincetown study, experts widely believed that there was very little, perhaps even no, risk of spread by vaccinated people. Provincetown’s outbreak indicated that isn’t the case, in part due to the topline number: 74 percent of recorded cases were among fully vaccinated people. That high share suggested that there was at least some transmission among the vaccinated.
Still, it’s possible to make too much of that topline number. For one, Provincetown during the Fourth of July isn’t representative of the country in typical times. The events that likely turned into a superspreading situation were a huge, citywide party, with bars packed and lots of close contact, physical intimacy, and sex. It’s a far cry from the risk of exposure that most people face during occasional trips to the grocery store, bars and restaurants, or movie theaters.
But the more concerning finding in the Provincetown study is that, among those tested, the vaccinated people with breakthrough cases had the same level of virus in their noses as the unvaccinated people who were infected. Federal officials over the last week cited this to justify the changes in masking guidelines, arguing that it’s proof the delta variant could be potent enough that even the vaccinated are spreading it.
Yet there are still unanswered questions, and several reasons that this finding might not be as alarming as it seems. First, only a tiny minority of vaccinated people get breakthrough cases to begin with, especially compared to the rate of unvaccinated people getting sick in hot spots or superspreading events. That means a vaccinated person’s chances of getting to the point measured in the CDC study are much lower than an unvaccinated person’s.
Second, the metric in this case was virus detected in the nose. But it’s possible viral loads would be different in, say, the lungs, since a vaccine-induced immune response could cut off the virus before it spreads far. This could reduce a vaccinated person’s capacity to infect others: If a person has less virus in her lungs, she could spread less of it when she exhales through her mouth, talks, or laughs.
Third, we don’t know if the virus detected is an actual threat. It’s possible the virus in noses of vaccinated people is severely weakened after a vaccine-induced immune response. If that’s the case, then it’s not going to spread as easily or get people as sick. “The presence of those viral particles does not necessarily mean infectious virus,” Natalie Dean, a biostatistician at Emory University, told me. But the test used in the study only tried to estimate the amount of virus, not its potency.
For now, the best guess is that vaccinated people can spread the virus — likely more so with delta than was possible before — but nowhere to the extent the unvaccinated do. But this needs more research and data to confirm, which is why many experts are pushing on federal and state officials to do a better job tracking and studying breakthrough cases.
None of this would be a big concern if everyone was vaccinated
Another way to look at the data is even more favorable to the vaccines: If everyone was vaccinated, we wouldn’t need to be so concerned about how much the virus still spreads among those who got the shot.
Imagine that, contrary to much of the current evidence, the vaccines don’t slow the rate of transmission, but that every person in the country is vaccinated.
The US would essentially be a bunch of Provincetown outbreaks. There would be infections. A few people would still get sick, typically experiencing cold- or flu-like symptoms. But, due to the vaccines, almost no one would be sent to the hospital and even fewer would die.
“The overwhelming conclusion of all this evidence is that breakthrough events are extremely rare,” Jen Kates, director of global health and HIV policy at the Kaiser Family Foundation, told me. “They’re not the driver.”
It’s also very likely that the vaccines reduce rates of spread, perhaps quite significantly. Brown University School of Public Health dean Ashish Jha succinctly summarized what I heard from experts time and again over the past week: “Vaccinated people are far far far less likely to spread the virus than unvaccinated people.” Since vaccinated people are less likely to get infected by the virus to begin with, they’re less likely to spread it to others, too.
But we don’t know exactly how much the vaccines reduce the risk of spreading the coronavirus among the infected, including those without symptoms. Before the Provincetown study, experts widely believed that there was very little, perhaps even no, risk of spread by vaccinated people. Provincetown’s outbreak indicated that isn’t the case, in part due to the topline number: 74 percent of recorded cases were among fully vaccinated people. That high share suggested that there was at least some transmission among the vaccinated.
Still, it’s possible to make too much of that topline number. For one, Provincetown during the Fourth of July isn’t representative of the country in typical times. The events that likely turned into a superspreading situation were a huge, citywide party, with bars packed and lots of close contact, physical intimacy, and sex. It’s a far cry from the risk of exposure that most people face during occasional trips to the grocery store, bars and restaurants, or movie theaters.
But the more concerning finding in the Provincetown study is that, among those tested, the vaccinated people with breakthrough cases had the same level of virus in their noses as the unvaccinated people who were infected. Federal officials over the last week cited this to justify the changes in masking guidelines, arguing that it’s proof the delta variant could be potent enough that even the vaccinated are spreading it.
Yet there are still unanswered questions, and several reasons that this finding might not be as alarming as it seems. First, only a tiny minority of vaccinated people get breakthrough cases to begin with, especially compared to the rate of unvaccinated people getting sick in hot spots or superspreading events. That means a vaccinated person’s chances of getting to the point measured in the CDC study are much lower than an unvaccinated person’s.
Second, the metric in this case was virus detected in the nose. But it’s possible viral loads would be different in, say, the lungs, since a vaccine-induced immune response could cut off the virus before it spreads far. This could reduce a vaccinated person’s capacity to infect others: If a person has less virus in her lungs, she could spread less of it when she exhales through her mouth, talks, or laughs.
Third, we don’t know if the virus detected is an actual threat. It’s possible the virus in noses of vaccinated people is severely weakened after a vaccine-induced immune response. If that’s the case, then it’s not going to spread as easily or get people as sick. “The presence of those viral particles does not necessarily mean infectious virus,” Natalie Dean, a biostatistician at Emory University, told me. But the test used in the study only tried to estimate the amount of virus, not its potency.
For now, the best guess is that vaccinated people can spread the virus — likely more so with delta than was possible before — but nowhere to the extent the unvaccinated do. But this needs more research and data to confirm, which is why many experts are pushing on federal and state officials to do a better job tracking and studying breakthrough cases.
None of this would be a big concern if everyone was vaccinated
Another way to look at the data is even more favorable to the vaccines: If everyone was vaccinated, we wouldn’t need to be so concerned about how much the virus still spreads among those who got the shot.
Imagine that, contrary to much of the current evidence, the vaccines don’t slow the rate of transmission, but that every person in the country is vaccinated.
The US would essentially be a bunch of Provincetown outbreaks. There would be infections. A few people would still get sick, typically experiencing cold- or flu-like symptoms. But, due to the vaccines, almost no one would be sent to the hospital and even fewer would die.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
Meanwhile deep in the redneck heart of Trump country, DeSantis leads the white tribe off a covid cliff. More local "fake" news, it seems all the local stations and newspapers are "fake" these days, only Trump speaks the truth for many who want and need to believe bullshit.
DeSantis will kill however many as necessary to retain power and fuel his political ambitions to be America's next king of the morons and traitors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Florida breaks record for COVID-19 hospitalizations, Jacksonville hospitals treating hundreds
As the number of people hospitalized for COVID-19 in Florida rose to an all-time high, Jacksonville-area hospitals continued to treat hundreds of patients ill with the virus.
A day after Florida hospitals reported treating 10,389 COVID-19 patients, the state set a new record of 11,515 patients on Tuesday, including 2,400 patients in intensive care, according to the Associated Press, citing data the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services released Tuesday.
In mid-June, Florida reported just 1,000 hospitalized COVID-19 patients.
Before the summer resurgence of COVID cases fueled by the delta variant, hospitalizations in the state peaked at 10,170 on July 23, 2020, prior to the availability of vaccines.
More:Duval County's COVID cases up 29.9%; Florida cases surge 51.3%
More:Which pharmacies are still offering free COVID-19 tests, vaccines? | What You Need To Know
More:Duval County Health Department plans more hours for COVID-19 testing and possibly new sites
In the Jacksonville area, Baptist Health reported 504 patients as of Tuesday morning at its five hospitals, down three from the 507 reported Monday. Ninety-two of those patients were in intensive care, compared to 95 Monday.
Twelve of the total number are children being treated at Baptist's Wolfson's Children's Hospital, including four in intensive care. Of the 72 patients admitted Monday, seven were children.
About 90 percent of the patients age 12 and up have not been fully vaccinated, according to Baptist.
The caseload continued to increase Tuesday at UF Health Jacksonville, which reported a total of 239 COVID-19 patients at its Springfield and Northside campuses. That number was up from 218 Monday morning and 203 Friday morning.
Fifty-four of those patients were in intensive care Tuesday, down from 56 on Monday.
Other Jacksonville area hospitals are not releasing daily COVID-19 case reports.
More:‘That light did turn out to be a train’: UF Health Jacksonville staff face surge in COVID
Family tragedy:Their family was scared of the vaccine. They lost 4 members to COVID-19 within 1 week.
Physicians across the state are reporting that most patients in the current surge are unvaccinated and younger than they were earlier in the pandemic. Also, cases of hospitalized children are increasing.
DeSantis will kill however many as necessary to retain power and fuel his political ambitions to be America's next king of the morons and traitors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Florida breaks record for COVID-19 hospitalizations, Jacksonville hospitals treating hundreds
As the number of people hospitalized for COVID-19 in Florida rose to an all-time high, Jacksonville-area hospitals are treating hundreds of patients.
www.jacksonville.com
As Florida breaks record for COVID-19 hospitalizations, Jacksonville hospitals treating hundreds
As the number of people hospitalized for COVID-19 in Florida rose to an all-time high, Jacksonville-area hospitals continued to treat hundreds of patients ill with the virus.
A day after Florida hospitals reported treating 10,389 COVID-19 patients, the state set a new record of 11,515 patients on Tuesday, including 2,400 patients in intensive care, according to the Associated Press, citing data the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services released Tuesday.
In mid-June, Florida reported just 1,000 hospitalized COVID-19 patients.
Before the summer resurgence of COVID cases fueled by the delta variant, hospitalizations in the state peaked at 10,170 on July 23, 2020, prior to the availability of vaccines.
More:Duval County's COVID cases up 29.9%; Florida cases surge 51.3%
More:Which pharmacies are still offering free COVID-19 tests, vaccines? | What You Need To Know
More:Duval County Health Department plans more hours for COVID-19 testing and possibly new sites
In the Jacksonville area, Baptist Health reported 504 patients as of Tuesday morning at its five hospitals, down three from the 507 reported Monday. Ninety-two of those patients were in intensive care, compared to 95 Monday.
Twelve of the total number are children being treated at Baptist's Wolfson's Children's Hospital, including four in intensive care. Of the 72 patients admitted Monday, seven were children.
About 90 percent of the patients age 12 and up have not been fully vaccinated, according to Baptist.
The caseload continued to increase Tuesday at UF Health Jacksonville, which reported a total of 239 COVID-19 patients at its Springfield and Northside campuses. That number was up from 218 Monday morning and 203 Friday morning.
Fifty-four of those patients were in intensive care Tuesday, down from 56 on Monday.
Other Jacksonville area hospitals are not releasing daily COVID-19 case reports.
More:‘That light did turn out to be a train’: UF Health Jacksonville staff face surge in COVID
Family tragedy:Their family was scared of the vaccine. They lost 4 members to COVID-19 within 1 week.
Physicians across the state are reporting that most patients in the current surge are unvaccinated and younger than they were earlier in the pandemic. Also, cases of hospitalized children are increasing.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
A pretty good 12 min. vaccine video on the page, not directly related to this particular story though.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
news.yahoo.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Florida woman who said she and her family were afraid to get vaccinated is now urging people to get their shots after she her father and brother died from COVID-19 in 1 week
Payten McCall told CNN losing her father and brother was "one of the most, roughest and hardest experiences" she has faced in her life.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I think Johnson is toast in 2022 when he comes up for reelection in the middle of a republican shitstorm of scandal in the courts with Trump and many others in the big house. Wisconsin ain't that red, more battleground that is turning back to blue. Their covid response should hurt the republicans in state wide elections in 2022, they and foxnews screwed the base with lethal disinformation specifically targeted at them for political purposes.
Now anti vaxx disinfo has divided the republicans even more than Trump's big lie, but it is doing more than just dividing them, it is killing, maiming and fucking over the half of them who are unvaxxed and believe bullshit. Once they got the big lie rolling, it gained momentum and inertia as it went downhill and is difficult to stop, anybody who tries to get in front of it is crushed and run over.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
news.yahoo.com
Now anti vaxx disinfo has divided the republicans even more than Trump's big lie, but it is doing more than just dividing them, it is killing, maiming and fucking over the half of them who are unvaxxed and believe bullshit. Once they got the big lie rolling, it gained momentum and inertia as it went downhill and is difficult to stop, anybody who tries to get in front of it is crushed and run over.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GOP Is Pushing Anti-Vaxx Disinfo… and Acting Like an ‘Authoritarian Regime’
Photo Illustration by The Daily Beast/GettyDr. Peter Hotez has been battling vaccine disinformation for years. But he was still shocked to see United States senators like Ron Johnson peddling anti-vaxxer agitprop.“Historically, this is what the authoritarian regimes do,” Hotez tells Molly...
Last edited:
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Im not sure if you mean @DIY-HP-LED because his was the last post, but for what it is worth I don't get paid anything.
I am purely radicalized by this relentless shitty attack on my family and fellow citizens.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
I provide a link to the original source and don't always post the full article, usually post in the morning while I'm reading the news. I almost always post from reliable legitimate news sources that use professional standards and practices, including local news stations and newspapers. It's hard to claim "fake news" when all local news sources are saying otherwise.
Those stupid enough to believe bullshit are getting reality rammed down their throats daily and the taste is bitter, but covid is worse.
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
BTW: if ya know how I can get in contact with that Soros fellow let me know, I hear he pays in gringo dollars and has a dental plan.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Public officials who spread lies about COVID and the vaccines should stand trial for mass murder.Meanwhile deep in the redneck heart of Trump country, DeSantis leads the white tribe off a covid cliff. More local "fake" news, it seems all the local stations and newspapers are "fake" these days, only Trump speaks the truth for many who want and need to believe bullshit.
DeSantis will kill however many as necessary to retain power and fuel his political ambitions to be America's next king of the morons and traitors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Florida breaks record for COVID-19 hospitalizations, Jacksonville hospitals treating hundreds
As the number of people hospitalized for COVID-19 in Florida rose to an all-time high, Jacksonville-area hospitals are treating hundreds of patients.www.jacksonville.com
As Florida breaks record for COVID-19 hospitalizations, Jacksonville hospitals treating hundreds
As the number of people hospitalized for COVID-19 in Florida rose to an all-time high, Jacksonville-area hospitals continued to treat hundreds of patients ill with the virus.
A day after Florida hospitals reported treating 10,389 COVID-19 patients, the state set a new record of 11,515 patients on Tuesday, including 2,400 patients in intensive care, according to the Associated Press, citing data the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services released Tuesday.
In mid-June, Florida reported just 1,000 hospitalized COVID-19 patients.
Before the summer resurgence of COVID cases fueled by the delta variant, hospitalizations in the state peaked at 10,170 on July 23, 2020, prior to the availability of vaccines.
More:Duval County's COVID cases up 29.9%; Florida cases surge 51.3%
More:Which pharmacies are still offering free COVID-19 tests, vaccines? | What You Need To Know
More:Duval County Health Department plans more hours for COVID-19 testing and possibly new sites
In the Jacksonville area, Baptist Health reported 504 patients as of Tuesday morning at its five hospitals, down three from the 507 reported Monday. Ninety-two of those patients were in intensive care, compared to 95 Monday.
Twelve of the total number are children being treated at Baptist's Wolfson's Children's Hospital, including four in intensive care. Of the 72 patients admitted Monday, seven were children.
About 90 percent of the patients age 12 and up have not been fully vaccinated, according to Baptist.
The caseload continued to increase Tuesday at UF Health Jacksonville, which reported a total of 239 COVID-19 patients at its Springfield and Northside campuses. That number was up from 218 Monday morning and 203 Friday morning.
Fifty-four of those patients were in intensive care Tuesday, down from 56 on Monday.
Other Jacksonville area hospitals are not releasing daily COVID-19 case reports.
More:‘That light did turn out to be a train’: UF Health Jacksonville staff face surge in COVID
Family tragedy:Their family was scared of the vaccine. They lost 4 members to COVID-19 within 1 week.
Physicians across the state are reporting that most patients in the current surge are unvaccinated and younger than they were earlier in the pandemic. Also, cases of hospitalized children are increasing.
The Republicons have the blood of over 600,000 people on their hands.
In March of 2020, I predicted America would see a million fatalities before this is all over. Between recurring outbreaks helped along by the antivax clowns, the Republicon Death Cult spewing lies and the virus itself taking advantage of low vaccination rates to adapt, I fear we are still on track to hit that number.
Sometimes I really hate being right.
MY OWN DANK
Well-Known Member
Never had a flu shot never had the flu...My Dr says most ppl that come in with the flu have had a flu vaccination and she admittedly never got a flu vaccine until forced to by her employers...convo pre-Covid...
I will not be accepting a Covid vaccination...ever
I will not be accepting a Covid vaccination...ever
captainmorgan
Well-Known Member
Enjoy your dewormer.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I didn't say you were a lying internet troll. I said that I'm tired of them. Yet here you are, offended by a remark that you claim isn't true. As some say, "a hit dog will holler".
printer
Well-Known Member
It is so wonderful to be you. I never had one cavity in all my 60 years on this earth (although I am not sure the first year or two counts) and last month got my first filling. It really sucks, he said all my enamel was great, it just started just below it. Sometimes shit happens.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
DIY-HP-LED
Well-Known Member
It's not everyday when someone publicly admits they are a moron.