Trichrome Color and the Effect on High - Legend, Myth, or Fact?

[Lagged]

Elephant in the room ….

Terpene profile of strain will dictate the “ high” … triches are merely an indication of maturity of thc elements ( cloudy - peak ) .

Hey man! That is a great distinction, and thanks for the visual aids. I am sorry if this sound ignorant, but don't the terpenes exists within the trichs? If so, the maturity of those trichs should effect the high or the intensity of such, right?

In reference to maturity of the thc elements, is there a definable proportion of these elements that produces the most effective or "potent" high?

 

[Budzbuddha]

Hey man! That is a great distinction, and thanks for the visual aids. I am sorry if this sound ignorant, but don't the terpenes exists within the trichs? If so, the maturity of those trichs should effect the high or the intensity of such, right?

In reference to maturity of the thc elements, is there a definable proportion of these elements that produces the most effective or "potent" high?

No no … nobody sounding ignorant. Many facets to this wonderful plant.

 

[Thundercat]

I've said it for years now. The best smoke comes from a FULLY RIPENED healthy plant that is dried slowly.

If its an couch lock high you want grow a plant known for that and grow it until its FULLY RIPENED. If you want a uplifting high grow a plant known for that until its FULLY RIPENED.

Harvesting plants early reduces terpenes, high duration, level of effects and yields. Harvesting a plant that is FULLY RIPENED will lengthen the high, increase whatever effects that strain has, and maximize the yield and quality of the bud.

I'm sorry I don't have scientific studies to prove this, but I've personally grown thousands of plants that I"ve shared with friends and family over the last 16 years I've been growing. As well as smoked buds that friends and family have grown, and that have been dispensary purchased. So my data collection has been extensive albeit anecdotal.

I believe the whole wait for 30% amber or which ever harvest suggestion you might pick from a "grow guide" or off a site all stem from the goal of trying to get people to reach the maximum potential. I'll also add that any site or book that tells you that you can harvest a plant with 40% white stigma(pistils) is just plain wrong and anything else they say should be questioned heavily. In case you haven't seen it, here is the harvest guide that I share with new growers that are trying to actually understand the plants physiology.

The signs of ripeness are pretty standard for cannabis plants.

First a few of the pistils begin turning color and start receding. Your plant is just starting to ripen. Depending on the strain you could still have two months to go. We're just starting this journey.

Two to four weeks later you'll notice that most of the pistils(>80%) have now changed color and curled back into the bud. It's frosty, way bigger than it was a few weeks ago(aren't you glad you waited), and smells dank! It's time, right? Not a chance killer. Patience is a virtue.

Over the next 2-3 weeks it doesn't look much different, maybe a little more swelling in the calyxes, and the rest of the pistils change over, but the stems are starting to bend under the weight of the buds. These ladies are putting on weight internally by adding density and now the buds are doing their final ripening.

Now you begin looking at trichomes, on the calyx, not the leaves, and harvest according to your preference. When looking at trichomes it’s essential to look at them from the side. The bulbous heads can magnify the opaque stalk under it. Looking from the side allows you to more accurately see the condition of the resin in the trichome head.

There is still no rush to harvest, the window just opened, and you have several weeks before you MIGHT start having to think about it possibly beginning to get too ripe. It takes WEEKS for plants to mature not days.

It is very easy to harvest a plant to early. It is very hard to harvest a plant to late. I’ve never seen someone accidentally wait too long.

 

[Lagged]

I've said it for years now. The best smoke comes from a FULLY RIPENED healthy plant that is dried slowly.

If its an couch lock high you want grow a plant known for that and grow it until its FULLY RIPENED. If you want a uplifting high grow a plant known for that until its FULLY RIPENED.

Harvesting plants early reduces terpenes, high duration, level of effects and yields. Harvesting a plant that is FULLY RIPENED will lengthen the high, increase whatever effects that strain has, and maximize the yield and quality of the bud.

I'm sorry I don't have scientific studies to prove this, but I've personally grown thousands of plants that I"ve shared with friends and family over the last 16 years I've been growing. As well as smoked buds that friends and family have grown, and that have been dispensary purchased. So my data collection has been extensive albeit anecdotal.

I believe the whole wait for 30% amber or which ever harvest suggestion you might pick from a "grow guide" or off a site all stem from the goal of trying to get people to reach the maximum potential. I'll also add that any site or book that tells you that you can harvest a plant with 40% white stigma(pistils) is just plain wrong and anything else they say should be questioned heavily. In case you haven't seen it, here is the harvest guide that I share with new growers that are trying to actually understand the plants physiology.

The signs of ripeness are pretty standard for cannabis plants.

First a few of the pistils begin turning color and start receding. Your plant is just starting to ripen. Depending on the strain you could still have two months to go. We're just starting this journey.

Two to four weeks later you'll notice that most of the pistils(>80%) have now changed color and curled back into the bud. It's frosty, way bigger than it was a few weeks ago(aren't you glad you waited), and smells dank! It's time, right? Not a chance killer. Patience is a virtue.

Over the next 2-3 weeks it doesn't look much different, maybe a little more swelling in the calyxes, and the rest of the pistils change over, but the stems are starting to bend under the weight of the buds. These ladies are putting on weight internally by adding density and now the buds are doing their final ripening.

Now you begin looking at trichomes, on the calyx, not the leaves, and harvest according to your preference. When looking at trichomes it’s essential to look at them from the side. The bulbous heads can magnify the opaque stalk under it. Looking from the side allows you to more accurately see the condition of the resin in the trichome head.

There is still no rush to harvest, the window just opened, and you have several weeks before you MIGHT start having to think about it possibly beginning to get too ripe. It takes WEEKS for plants to mature not days.

It is very easy to harvest a plant to early. It is very hard to harvest a plant to late. I’ve never seen someone accidentally wait too long.

First off, thank you so much for the well thought out response good sir. Second, the fact you were willing to put so much time into your post and the confidence you spoke with alleviates any urge to question authority, no need to worry about scientific data, pal.

I 100% agree on the white pistil thing, It blows my mind that reputable seed banks would promote this.

Great tip about looking at the side of the calyxes. I've noticed an opaque blur when trying to take photos head on. Thanks!

Now when you mention "harvest at your own preference", what dictates these preferences? Put in different words, what makes someone want to harvest at the early stages of the window compared to the later stages?

Another thing that I am unsure of when it comes to looking at trichs is, when dealing with a pheno that is know to foxtail, or maybe you had your temps to light intensity get too high which resulted in foxtailing, how do you make sure you are examining calyxes that are optimal subjects?

 

[jochhe1998]

I've said it for years now. The best smoke comes from a FULLY RIPENED healthy plant that is dried slowly.

If its an couch lock high you want grow a plant known for that and grow it until its FULLY RIPENED. If you want a uplifting high grow a plant known for that until its FULLY RIPENED.

Harvesting plants early reduces terpenes, high duration, level of effects and yields. Harvesting a plant that is FULLY RIPENED will lengthen the high, increase whatever effects that strain has, and maximize the yield and quality of the bud.

I'm sorry I don't have scientific studies to prove this, but I've personally grown thousands of plants that I"ve shared with friends and family over the last 16 years I've been growing. As well as smoked buds that friends and family have grown, and that have been dispensary purchased. So my data collection has been extensive albeit anecdotal.

I believe the whole wait for 30% amber or which ever harvest suggestion you might pick from a "grow guide" or off a site all stem from the goal of trying to get people to reach the maximum potential. I'll also add that any site or book that tells you that you can harvest a plant with 40% white stigma(pistils) is just plain wrong and anything else they say should be questioned heavily. In case you haven't seen it, here is the harvest guide that I share with new growers that are trying to actually understand the plants physiology.

The signs of ripeness are pretty standard for cannabis plants.

First a few of the pistils begin turning color and start receding. Your plant is just starting to ripen. Depending on the strain you could still have two months to go. We're just starting this journey.

Two to four weeks later you'll notice that most of the pistils(>80%) have now changed color and curled back into the bud. It's frosty, way bigger than it was a few weeks ago(aren't you glad you waited), and smells dank! It's time, right? Not a chance killer. Patience is a virtue.

Over the next 2-3 weeks it doesn't look much different, maybe a little more swelling in the calyxes, and the rest of the pistils change over, but the stems are starting to bend under the weight of the buds. These ladies are putting on weight internally by adding density and now the buds are doing their final ripening.

Now you begin looking at trichomes, on the calyx, not the leaves, and harvest according to your preference. When looking at trichomes it’s essential to look at them from the side. The bulbous heads can magnify the opaque stalk under it. Looking from the side allows you to more accurately see the condition of the resin in the trichome head.

There is still no rush to harvest, the window just opened, and you have several weeks before you MIGHT start having to think about it possibly beginning to get too ripe. It takes WEEKS for plants to mature not days.

It is very easy to harvest a plant to early. It is very hard to harvest a plant to late. I’ve never seen someone accidentally wait too long.

Hey man, loving this stuff!!! Best post I've read in a couple days really.

Quick question if you don't mind though and a bit of a piggy back on @Lagged (sorry buddy).

Doesn't leaving the plant to ripen for such a long time drastically increase the chance of herming? Also, at what point does waiting longer for yield (if one prefers to prioritize that) become counterintuitive?

 

[curious2garden]

I've said it for years now. The best smoke comes from a FULLY RIPENED healthy plant that is dried slowly.

.......snip........

Good post, that's the only thing I disagree with. As long as you stop the drying at the right time it doesn't matter how quickly you got to that point. If you go past that point, and drying fast will take you past it just as quickly, there is no going back. So the optimum window can zip by quickly so you take a lot of risk drying quickly.

 

[curious2garden]

Hey man, loving this stuff!!! Best post I've read in a couple days really.

Quick question if you don't mind though and a bit of a piggy back on @Lagged (sorry buddy).

Doesn't leaving the plant to ripen for such a long time drastically increase the chance of herming? Also, at what point does waiting longer for yield (if one prefers to prioritize that) become counterintuitive?

@Thundercat is right about ripening. At the end if your plant rodelizes you simply chop shortly thereafter. It takes awhile to set seeds.

 

[Lagged]

Hey man, loving this stuff!!! Best post I've read in a couple days really.

Quick question if you don't mind though and a bit of a piggy back on @Lagged (sorry buddy).

Doesn't leaving the plant to ripen for such a long time drastically increase the chance of herming? Also, at what point does waiting longer for yield (if one prefers to prioritize that) become counterintuitive?

No need for apology! I'm here to learn!

Good post, that's the only thing I disagree with. As long as you stop the drying at the right time it doesn't matter how quickly you got to that point. If you go past that point, and drying fast will take you past it just as quickly, there is no going back. So the optimum window can zip by quickly so you take a lot of risk drying quickly.

Interesting you say that, most of the data I've seen suggest that a slower cure is best for potency and terpene preservation. I guess I have more white papers to find! lol

 

[curious2garden]

...snip.....
Interesting you say that, most of the data I've seen suggest that a slower cure is best for potency and terpene preservation. I guess I have more white papers to find! lol

I've been growing up here in the Mojave Desert for awhile. I don't air condition my grow. I'm high heat and low humidity. As long as I jar my bud before it's too dried out I'm fine. The chemical break down of chlorophyll and sugars all occur just with heat catalyzing the reactions at a faster rate. My pot smokes fine (as long as I don't miss the window). Jarring too early isn't an issue you just dump it out into a paper bag to dry a little longer. Otherwise burping gets you finished.

I'm getting ready to harvest in the next week. My plants will only hang for 24 to 36 hours before jarring in this heat. My pot's ok. @cannabineer how's that Snow Temple of mine, or the GG#4 or Wedding Cake or the.... LOL

 

[Thundercat]

A) Now when you mention "harvest at your own preference", what dictates these preferences? Put in different words, what makes someone want to harvest at the early stages of the window compared to the later stages?

B) Another thing that I am unsure of when it comes to looking at trichs is, when dealing with a pheno that is know to foxtail, or maybe you had your temps to light intensity get too high which resulted in foxtailing, how do you make sure you are examining calyxes that are optimal subjects?

Glad I was able to help so far .

As for question "A", The reason someone might want to harvest at an earlier point in the window versus a later point could be many things. Some people prefer weed that has more subtle effects or that doesn't last as long so they aren't "fucked up" for hours. The same might go for harvesting later and wanting more intense effects or beyond the peak point and wanting effects that are influenced by the CBN once it starts to develop. However I've seen people post test results multiple times over the years that make me feel strongly that it takes significant amounts of time for THC to actually degrade into CBN. This isn't gonna happen over night.

On question "B", My best suggestion is to keep your environment correct to prevent the plants from foxtailing in the first place. However if it happens, because some times it does. You just have to work with what you've got. I would focus on the main buds that had been growing from the beginning and just mostly overlook the foxtails. If it seems like the foxtails are maturing with the plant I might give it some extra time, but only if I've got time and space.

 

[cannabineer]

I've been growing up here in the Mojave Desert for awhile. I don't air condition my grow. I'm high heat and low humidity. As long as I jar my bud before it's too dried out I'm fine. The chemical break down of chlorophyll and sugars all occur just with heat catalyzing the reactions at a faster rate. My pot smokes fine (as long as I don't miss the window). Jarring too early isn't an issue you just dump it out into a paper bag to dry a little longer. Otherwise burping gets you finished.

I'm getting ready to harvest in the next week. My plants will only hang for 24 to 36 hours before jarring in this heat. My pot's ok. @cannabineer how's that Snow Temple of mine, or the GG#4 or Wedding Cake or the.... LOL

Top (bad word) shelf. I’ve seen the plants growing, flowering, fully cured. Simply beyond reproach.

 

[Thundercat]

Hey man, loving this stuff!!! Best post I've read in a couple days really.

Quick question if you don't mind though and a bit of a piggy back on @Lagged (sorry buddy).

Doesn't leaving the plant to ripen for such a long time drastically increase the chance of herming? Also, at what point does waiting longer for yield (if one prefers to prioritize that) become counterintuitive?

Honestly you don't typically get those issues until a plant as gone beyond its peak point, I'm not suggesting letting plants die on the stem. However just like Curious2garden said. If you see it happen you try to crop shortly after. Sometimes you can remove the "nanners" and the plant finishs fine, sometimes it just keeps growing more.

I've only had a few plants over the years that rodelized. One I even kept around for a few grows because it grew some REALLY DANK TERPY RESIN I liked to make into oil . It just got cut once I saw it needed to be to prevent full pollination. I've never really been easy on plants either if they can't handle the life I lead then they don't stay in my garden.

Good post, that's the only thing I disagree with. As long as you stop the drying at the right time it doesn't matter how quickly you got to that point. If you go past that point, and drying fast will take you past it just as quickly, there is no going back. So the optimum window can zip by quickly so you take a lot of risk drying quickly.

I totally agree with your point. I only say dried slowly as a general statement. It really is all about the point its dried to, and in conditions like yours, that point will definitely happen faster! I've always had to alter my drying process based on the seasons where I lived. The summers were 90 degrees and 90% humidity and the winters were 20 degrees and 0% humidity. I didn't have a climate-controlled dry room or anything fancy so I played games with fans and paper bags to ensure I got it right each time.

 

[curious2garden]

.....snip..........
I totally agree with your point. I only say dried slowly as a general statement. It really is all about the point its dried to, and in conditions like yours, that point will definitely happen faster! I've always had to alter my drying process based on the seasons where I lived. The summers were 90 degrees and 90% humidity and the winters were 20 degrees and 0% humidity. I didn't have a climate-controlled dry room or anything fancy so I played games with fans and paper bags to ensure I got it right each time.

Bingo! That's the point and you said it so much better too LOL

Essentially when you're in turbo dry mode you can blow past that point quickly. Further if you have really large, dense colas you aren't going to evenly dry those in an environment like mine so you have to dump them out so the moisture within the buds can even out and work toward the surface (hence the bag). Mechanically moving them from jars to bags is a lot less expensive than running humidifiers, air conditioners and fans.

I can't imagine trying to dry in 90/90 and 20/0!

 

[Thundercat]

I can't imagine trying to dry in 90/90 and 20/0!

It was a fun game. In 90/90 all colas got broken down into buds and they went on a drying rack, and there was air flow. In the 20/0 branches got hung whole. In both cases I tried to get them to a happy point and then paper bag them a few days to dial it in.

 

[Lagged]

I've been growing up here in the Mojave Desert for awhile. I don't air condition my grow. I'm high heat and low humidity. As long as I jar my bud before it's too dried out I'm fine. The chemical break down of chlorophyll and sugars all occur just with heat catalyzing the reactions at a faster rate. My pot smokes fine (as long as I don't miss the window). Jarring too early isn't an issue you just dump it out into a paper bag to dry a little longer. Otherwise burping gets you finished.

I'm getting ready to harvest in the next week. My plants will only hang for 24 to 36 hours before jarring in this heat. My pot's ok. @cannabineer how's that Snow Temple of mine, or the GG#4 or Wedding Cake or the.... LOL

Those are all great points! You can harvest successfully with the correct balance of temperature and humidity.

My question is, though, how do you know if your cannabis could have been more potent /smell better/ etc with a longer dry cycle? I don't mean to patronize, you may have tested these things, I am just curious!

Glad I was able to help so far .

As for question "A", The reason someone might want to harvest at an earlier point in the window versus a later point could be many things. Some people prefer weed that has more subtle effects or that doesn't last as long so they aren't "fucked up" for hours. The same might go for harvesting later and wanting more intense effects or beyond the peak point and wanting effects that are influenced by the CBN once it starts to develop. However I've seen people post test results multiple times over the years that make me feel strongly that it takes significant amounts of time for THC to actually degrade into CBN. This isn't gonna happen over night.

On question "B", My best suggestion is to keep your environment correct to prevent the plants from foxtailing in the first place. However if it happens, because some times it does. You just have to work with what you've got. I would focus on the main buds that had been growing from the beginning and just mostly overlook the foxtails. If it seems like the foxtails are maturing with the plant I might give it some extra time, but only if I've got time and space.

So essentially, harvesting earlier results in a high that is less intense (doesn't last as long or more subtle effects) Wouldn't it be better to harvest more buds at peak ripeness than less bud at suboptimal ripeness? Seems kind of ludicrous to me, no?

Top (bad word) shelf. I’ve seen the plants growing, flowering, fully cured. Simply beyond reproach.

my hero <3

 

[curious2garden]

Those are all great points! You can harvest successfully with the correct balance of temperature and humidity.

My question is, though, how do you know if your cannabis could have been more potent /smell better/ etc with a longer dry cycle? I don't mean to patronize, you may have tested these things, I am just curious!
.....snip......

How do you know if your cannabis could have been more potent/smell better/etc with a shorter dry cycle?

There haven't been any real tests setup that would answer that question objectively either way. At least none that have been published that I have found. I can say this, during the winter I have more humidity 35 to 40 % and lower temperatures 68-74 and my winter crops take anywhere from 7-10 days to be ready for jarring. To me there is no discernible difference between my summer dried or winter dried crops. As for potency they seem to be the same although I haven't had them tested.

I do look forward to prohibition ending and actual University research beginning.

 

[jochhe1998]

Honestly you don't typically get those issues until a plant as gone beyond its peak point, I'm not suggesting letting plants die on the stem. However just like Curious2garden said. If you see it happen you try to crop shortly after. Sometimes you can remove the "nanners" and the plant finishs fine, sometimes it just keeps growing more.

I've only had a few plants over the years that rodelized. One I even kept around for a few grows because it grew some REALLY DANK TERPY RESIN I liked to make into oil . It just got cut once I saw it needed to be to prevent full pollination. I've never really been easy on plants either if they can't handle the life I lead then they don't stay in my garden.



I totally agree with your point. I only say dried slowly as a general statement. It really is all about the point its dried to, and in conditions like yours, that point will definitely happen faster! I've always had to alter my drying process based on the seasons where I lived. The summers were 90 degrees and 90% humidity and the winters were 20 degrees and 0% humidity. I didn't have a climate-controlled dry room or anything fancy so I played games with fans and paper bags to ensure I got it right each time.

Hey Thundercat!

Thanks for the reply buddy. Sorry for the newbie questions but at what point does a plant pass peak ripeness? 20% amber? 60%? Or something completely different altogether.

And lol, you sound like my old waterpolo coach the way you treat your plants

 

[Nutty sKunK]

Its bro science like flushing, chopping an Indica early doesn't give you a Sativa high and chopping a Sativa late doesn't give you an Indica high.

That may be true to some degree but you’re missing a very important factor.

Most people grow HYBRIDS not pure sativa/indica so an aged hybrid will be more stoney than an earlier picked.

I find it amusing we need be shown the difference on paper when it can be simply observed in ones own experience by comparing a 7 week old bud to a 11 week old bud!

If you can’t notice a difference between the two then your receptors are pretty dull lol

 

[Sqwee]

That may be true to some degree but you’re missing a very important factor.

Most people grow HYBRIDS not pure sativa/indica so an aged hybrid will be more stoney than an earlier picked.

I find it amusing we need be shown the difference on paper when it can be simply observed in ones own experience by comparing a 7 week old bud to a 11 week old bud!

If you can’t notice a difference between the two then your receptors are pretty dull lol

Hybrids being stoney or uplifting are determined by which way the pheno leans, not by when you pick it.

And I never said there isn't a difference in high based on when you harvest, the only thing I'm disagreeing with is milky trichomes = uplifting, amber = couch lock.

Its amusing you get so aggressive due to your lack of reading comprehension.

Go look at the DDS I harvested at 13 weeks on the Useful thread. Sativa dominant pheno, crazy amount of amber trichomes, nothing stoney about it.

Or the Jabba's Stash that was Bubba Kush leaning I posted on the Bodhi thread with majority milky trichomes, complete night time smoke.

 

[Lagged]

How do you know if your cannabis could have been more potent/smell better/etc with a shorter dry cycle?

There haven't been any real tests setup that would answer that question objectively either way. At least none that have been published that I have found. I can say this, during the winter I have more humidity 35 to 40 % and lower temperatures 68-74 and my winter crops take anywhere from 7-10 days to be ready for jarring. To me there is no discernible difference between my summer dried or winter dried crops. As for potency they seem to be the same although I haven't had them tested.

I do look forward to prohibition ending and actual University research beginning.

All great points, and yeah I've only seen a handful of users on here that send their nugs to labs. I agree with you, looking forward to the end to fed prohibition, lets get some of these billion dollar Universities to test this shit. CMON GUYS!

That may be true to some degree but you’re missing a very important factor.

Most people grow HYBRIDS not pure sativa/indica so an aged hybrid will be more stoney than an earlier picked.

I find it amusing we need be shown the difference on paper when it can be simply observed in ones own experience by comparing a 7 week old bud to a 11 week old bud!

If you can’t notice a difference between the two then your receptors are pretty dull lol

Hey man, thanks for the reply!

So first off, I'm only on my second grow ever, never had a harvest to test this on. Second, people have varying opinions - some like sativas more, some like indicas more, and so personal preferences makes the data less concrete, if that makes sense.

On the other hand, scientific data is void of emotion and preference, which is why I was looking for some. It's more of a want, not a need.

It's not the only kind of data I will take in as well. As you can see @Thundercat and I had a great convo about his 16 years of experience and what he found his consumers liked most.

We're all here for friendly, intellectual conversation