Does anyone store their per gallon nute doses in centrifuge tubes?

[Apostatize]

Following a modified general hydroponics 8-phase feeding schedule, no phase requires more than like 30 ml/gallon of stock solution. So, I was thinking I could mix up like 50 gallons worth of stock for each phase (without water) (e.g., 50 x 25 ml/gallon, where a particular phase's nutes add up to 25 ml/gallon) and then split up the 50 doses into separate 50 ml centrifuge tubes.

Sounds kind of ridiculous, but I don't use a reservoir. I hand-feed. And I'm running perpetual bloom, so I have stocks of all phases ready to go at any time; and I've been blending up stocks for weekly aliquots (~10 gallons/week). It takes up a lot of time/space. But I Don't have the room or inclination to set up 8 separate reservoirs. I feel like I can reclaim shelf space by using 50 ml centrifuge tubes. It might even make my workspace neater. And less time with the blender every week would be a plus....

Thoughts (other than haha, hehe, and about a pound)?

 

[cannabineer]

Following a modified general hydroponics 8-phase feeding schedule, no phase requires more than like 30 ml/gallon of stock solution. So, for example, I was thinking I could mix up like 50 gallons worth of each phase (e.g., 50 x 25 ml/gallon, where a particular phase's nutes add up to 25 ml/gallon) and then split up the 50 doses into separate 50 ml centrifuge tubes.

Sounds kind of ridiculous, but I don't use a reservoir. I hand-feed. And I'm running perpetual bloom, so I have stocks of all phases ready to go at any time; and I've been blending up stocks for weekly aliquots (~10 gallons/week). It takes up a lot of time/space. But I Don't have the room or inclination to set up 8 separate reservoirs. I feel like I can reclaim shelf space by using 50 ml centrifuge tubes. It might even make my workspace neater. And less time with the blender every week would be a plus....

Thoughts (other than haha, hehe, and about a pound)?

There is a reason nutes come I’m multiple bottles.

If you’re talking about premeasuring the components into their own tubes, yes.

If you want all 3 components (concentrated) into 1 tube, expect intractable or insoluble precipitates.

Don’t mix the concentrates, is my advice.

 

[Apostatize]

There is a reason nutes come I’m multiple bottles.

If you’re talking about premeasuring the components into their own tubes, yes.

If you want all 3 components (concentrated) into 1 tube, expect intractable or insoluble precipitates.

Don’t mix the concentrates, is my advice.

All components would be mixed (~50 gallons worth of stock without water), and then split up into per gallon dose volumes (e.g., 50 separate doses for 50 gallons). I anticipate insoluble precipitates and that's why I use the blender. But without a blender, shaking a gallon once I've added the dose and pouring immediately won't be close to accurate enough?

 

[cannabineer]

All components would be mixed (~50 gallons worth of stock without water). I anticipate insoluble precipitates and that's why I use the blender. But without a blender, shaking a gallon once I've added the dose and pouring immediately won't be close to accurate enough?

You are fighting dissolution kinetics. The precipitates would redissolve slow as rock. You’re much better off premeasuring each component, 3 or 4 tubes instead of one, and adding them sequentially to the full charge of water.

I have lab chem experience. It takes seconds to form the precipitate and (in the relevant instance of calcium and magnesium phosphates) years to dissolve it.

 

[Apostatize]

You are fighting dissolution kinetics. The precipitates would redissolve slow as rock. You’re much better off premeasuring each component, 3 or 4 tubes instead of one, and adding them sequentially to the full charge of water.

I have lab chem experience. It takes seconds to form the precipitate and (in the relevant instance of calcium and magnesium phosphates) years to dissolve it.

Thanks. If it were 3-4 vials, yeah. But it's several, lots of nutes/nectars/supplements/myco. I measure each separately when I initially combine them for stock, but it's not saving me any time to have to do that more often than I do now. Currently, I just use a blender for weekly aliquots. Haven't noticed anything crazy (e.g., deficiencies), though I'm probably not getting all my money's worth.

Thanks! I guess I haven't quite sorted it out yet. More work to do.

Biochem, law, FDA compliance. It's been a while since I've done any lab work, though I did abandon a (molecular bio) PhD program after 6 weeks and a reflective night of blow. haaa, it was a long time ago.

 

[bk78]

I use dry salts and measure doses in ziplocks. Just dump in and let the mixing pump do it’s thing.

 

[Apostatize]

I'm probably not going to be able to resist the urge to try this. I want to reclaim space/time in a number of areas.

If only there were Tide Pods.... Dry salts present an interesting option. Oh well, something to figure out this winter when I'm not converting cork-hooks to rubber stoppers. haha, I'm a glutton for punishment.

 

[Apostatize]

You are fighting dissolution kinetics. The precipitates would redissolve slow as rock. You’re much better off pre-measuring each component, 3 or 4 tubes instead of one, and adding them sequentially to the full charge of water.

I have lab chem experience. It takes seconds to form the precipitate and (in the relevant instance of calcium and magnesium phosphates) years to dissolve it.

Let me ask you, is it fair to say that those precipitates you mentioned are somewhat unavoidable since (1), as you suggested, they form in seconds (regardless of when combined); and (2) even in dry form, hydroscopic properties accumulate atmospheric moisture -- forming a "semi-liquid slurry" -- even when stored on a shelf?

I've been pre-mixing stocks and storing them in gallons for at least 6 months now, maybe a year. However, following GH's 8-phase feeding schedule, I noticed phases 4-6 are a little reactive and need to be vented occasionally. So, perhaps, if I kept 50 phase 4 capsules locked and loaded, organized in a rack, I might leave those capsules on screwed/slightly vented (or poke a hole in the top/buy tiny 1 or 2-hole rubber stoppers...). It doesn't solve the potential precipitate issue, but at least the capsules won't burst.

Solutions and dilutions: working with stock solutions

www.ruf.rice.edu

 

[cannabineer]

Let me ask you, is it fair to say that those precipitates you mentioned are somewhat unavoidable since (1), as you suggested, they form in seconds (regardless of when combined); and (2) even in dry form, hydroscopic properties accumulate atmospheric moisture -- forming a "semi-liquid slurry" -- even when stored on a shelf?

I've been pre-mixing stocks and storing them in gallons for at least 6 months now, maybe a year. However, following GH's 8-phase feeding schedule, I noticed phases 4-6 are a little reactive and need to be vented occasionally. So, perhaps, if I kept 50 phase 4 capsules locked and loaded, organized in a rack, I might leave those capsules on screwed/slightly vented (or poke a hole in the top/buy tiny 1 or 2-hole rubber stoppers...). It doesn't solve the potential precipitate issue, but at least the capsules won't burst.

View attachment 4958477


unfurl="true"]https://www.ruf.rice.edu/~bioslabs/methods/solutions/stocks.htm

They spelled hygroscopic wrong.

The excerpt describes stock solutions using stable soluble substances. I’ve made and used such. They’re convenient, but if a precipitate formed, that batch was disposed of as spoiled.

As for having supplements, many of those will be compatible. I imagine you could distribute those among the Big Four: grow, micro, bloom, cal-mag.

In your instance I would grab a test tube rack. Let’s say you have eight bottles that build your res, not counting pH down.
I’d combine, in the ratios the recipe sets down, A with B
next tube A with C …
Sharpie the tubes! I’ve swapped them by mistake.

Let sit for a day. Any tubes that throw a precipitate, those letters cannot be mixed as concentrate. Document the observations.

You’ll puzzle your way through to the smallest number of premix tubes, with the satisfaction of having learned and done the work yourself.

Two considerations. The mycos probably won’t survive being mixed with something strong - death by pickling. But afaik you only dose mycos once, seedling or new clone.

Silicate solution will be compatible with nothing. If you do silicate, you’ve no choice but to dose it separately.

Ping me if I left anything out.

 

[curious2garden]

.........snip........
Two considerations. The mycos probably won’t survive being mixed with something strong - death by pickling. But afaik you only dose mycos once, seedling or new clone.
.......snip......

Death by crenation in a high osmolar solution and
I use mycos when I up pot and flip to flower.

 

[Apostatize]

They spelled hygroscopic wrong.

The excerpt describes stock solutions using stable soluble substances. I’ve made and used such. They’re convenient, but if a precipitate formed, that batch was disposed of as spoiled.

As for having supplements, many of those will be compatible. I imagine you could distribute those among the Big Four: grow, micro, bloom, cal-mag.

In your instance I would grab a test tube rack. Let’s say you have eight bottles that build your res, not counting pH down.
I’d combine, in the ratios the recipe sets down, A with B
next tube A with C …
Sharpie the tubes! I’ve swapped them by mistake.

Let sit for a day. Any tubes that throw a precipitate, those letters cannot be mixed as concentrate. Document the observations.

You’ll puzzle your way through to the smallest number of premix tubes, with the satisfaction of having learned and done the work yourself.

Two considerations. The mycos probably won’t survive being mixed with something strong - death by pickling. But afaik you only dose mycos once, seedling or new clone.

Silicate solution will be compatible with nothing. If you do silicate, you’ve no choice but to dose it separately.

Ping me if I left anything out.

They did spell it wrong....

Death by crenation in a high osmolar solution and
I use mycos when I up pot and flip to flower.

Right, thanks. I've only recently purchased myco and am preparing to use it (correctly, hopefully). Lumped it in with my initial question but figured, out of all of them, myco would be dosed separately. But I appreciate you and Cannabineer suggesting that I only need to inoculate my blocks like once or twice in a plant's lifetime. Drain-to-waste, so I wasn't sure. Without even reading the instructions, I was assuming I'd have to apply a fresh dose weekly.

I've been using Armor SI, but I recently bought Power SI. I figure, I'll still use Armor SI and then add like half the recommended dose of Power SI (so I get improvement, but it's not quite so expensive).

I also use at least 3 GH nectars and floralicious plus, as well as dry and liquid KoolBloom. I'm probably leaving out a couple things.

 

[curious2garden]

They did spell it wrong....


Right, thanks. I've only recently purchased myco and am preparing to use it (correctly, hopefully). Lumped it in with my initial question but figured, out of all of them, myco would be dosed separately. But I appreciate you and Cannabineer suggesting that I only need to inoculate my blocks like once or twice in a plant's lifetime. Drain-to-waste, so I wasn't sure. Without even reading the instructions, I was assuming I'd have to apply a fresh dose weekly.

I've been using Armor SI, but I recently bought Power SI. I figure, I'll still use Armor SI and then add like half the recommended dose of Power SI (so I get improvement, but it's not quite so expensive).

I also use at least 3 GH nectars and floralicious plus, as well as dry and liquid KoolBloom. I'm probably leaving out a couple things.

View attachment 4958524

I have a few questions;
1. How long have you been growing, and
2. How long have you been using this nutrient mix, and
3. What is your substrate?

 

[Apostatize]

I have a few questions;
1. How long have you been growing
- Almost 16 months (not long) ... but it's been pretty much perpetual awhile, so lots of practice in a short time
- started with ~15+ strains, including some from multiple sources
- selected 8, discontinued the rest; selected phenos and am only cloning them from now on.
2. How long have you been using this nutrient mix,
- about the same, at least a year. Started with Mills, I like them. My store stopped selling Mills. I still use Mills' root starter (Irish Kelp, fulvic acid, etc. biostimulant) v. GH's (expensive). Besides root starter, SI and now myco are about the only non-GH products.
and
3. What is your substrate?
- rockwool

I'm getting technique down for fairly young, smaller, like 8-12 main branch plants; and now/soon, I'll apply what I've learned and let plants veg a little longer. In about 3 years, I want to build a whole new setup, applying what I've learned but on a larger scale -- not a full warehouse, but perhaps a few 8'(L)x6'(W)x8'(H) warehouse shelve/racks with bloom on the top shelf and veg on lower shelf (brought in close with a combo of a lower amp ballast, and alternating 2 lights on/off to avoid hot spots) (i.e., I'm working toward a specific goal, but I'm open/flexible to how I'll go about achieving it).

 

[xtsho]

I've been using Armor SI, but I recently bought Power SI. I figure, I'll still use Armor SI and then add like half the recommended dose of Power SI (so I get improvement, but it's not quite so expensive).

I also use at least 3 GH nectars and floralicious plus, as well as dry and liquid KoolBloom. I'm probably leaving out a couple things.

You're using too much stuff if it's taking so much time to mix it up that you want to premix everything. Why do you need all that crap to begin with? Some Jacks and calcium nitrate will grow weed as good and probably better than using all that stuff.

Mix it all together if you want. Some can be mixed while others will cause problems and you might just end up making chalk.

Simplify your nutrient feeding is what I would do.

 

[Apostatize]

You're using too much stuff if it's taking so much time to mix it up that you want to premix everything. Why do you need all that crap to begin with? Some Jacks and calcium nitrate will grow weed as good and probably better than using all that stuff.

Mix it all together if you want. Some can be mixed while others will cause problems and you might just end up making chalk.

Simplify your nutrient feeding is what I would do.

I'm sure you're right. I should cut something. It's just, after decades of smoking what was available ... I taste the strawberries in my Bruce Banner #3 (OG Kush x Strawberry Diesel). I taste the cookies, I can smell and taste strains pretty much as they're described. I'm loving it. It's probably overkill, but I'm not confident enough in my understanding of the process or in my yield/quality, to subtract anything yet. You know what I mean -- if it ain't broke ... as long as I don't go broke in the process.

 

[Apostatize]

If I can get it down to ~3 capsules per gallon, it might work: 1 for silica/mono-silicic acid (smallest capsule), 1 for what can be grouped (50 ml capsule), 1 or 2 for what can't be pre-mixed (<50 ml capsule). If a rack has holes for 3 different sized capsules, it's easy to quickly identify which is which.

For example, phase 1 capsules could be stored in a rack like below (but larger). On a shelf, I could have a rack for each phase. Grab a gallon, grab 3 capsules, shake, and go. Instead of having 9 shelves of weekly gallons + shelves for stocks (i.e., crazy town, that's not including shelves for the supplies themselves), I could reduce storage space to like 2 shelves and use the rest for other stuff.

 

[curious2garden]

@xtsho 's right you're using way to much 'stuff' simplify and find some good genetics. Then build complexity.

 

[Apostatize]

I don't know if this changes the analysis, but I feed about 25-30 in bloom, while another 50+ are in veg (mostly late veg), and another 50 or so are new clones. Lots of food, lots of phases simultaneously, so I'm trying to simplify where I can ... but I don't want to sacrifice quality (smell, taste, potency, bag appeal). And 8 strains to smoke throughout the day to satiate my ADHD/inability to focus for more than 90 mins. on any particular task.... Also, considering I worked through 15+ strains to select my 8 and, in some cases, multiple breeder sources, I feel like the genetics I'm working with are pretty decent.

 

[Apostatize]

helps to use a spreadsheet. top table is for 1 gallon amts, bottom table's for whatever # of gallons I want ... simple math formulas. I'll share results after I update the product list, make a grid showing each product paired with all other products separately, and titrate each combination up to gallon dose levels one ml/day to see if/when a precipitate forms. Before next spring ... after I find the right deal on racks and centrifuge tubes, and finish restocking for the fall.

 

[Apostatize]

@cannabineer, after a little more reading, I have a better place to start to identify products likely to form precipitates in a stock mixed too early. So, hopefully, I can navigate through my product list without unnecessary experimentation (though I'll figure it out one way or the other).

How to prevent nutrients from precipitating in fertilizer tanks?

When mixing the fertilizers, the risk of precipitation in the fertilizer tanks is present. This is often caused by incorrect dosing or mixing.

royalbrinkman.com

Also helpful ... getting there. https://www.terpinator.com/blog/nutrient-precipitation

Good shit. https://fluidfertilizer.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Allen-Haynes.pdf