Recovering fraudulent or abused unemployment insurance?

[PJ Diaz]

Marxism is a spent force. The only ones saying Marxism are concealing autocratic wishes.

As for utopian, every single utopian movement I have encountered expects human nature to change in a mysterious but convenient manner.

Then what is your suggestion?

 

[CatHedral]

Then what is your suggestion?

I will admit I had to cycle back a ways to recover the argument.

My idea here is that business owners do not need to be sweet-talked but plainly told. They can always reincorporate elsewhere if they find socially just legislation oppressive. My sympathy here is with the worker, not the business owner. Due disclosure.

 

[mooray]

Well in my area, it's not quite that simple. A lot of people live here and commute an hour to jobs in Silicon Valley. We also have a strong tourist economy, which requires a lot of low paying jobs. How are people who work$14/hr jobs supposed to be able to afford $2000/month for a 1-br apartment? I know, they should just get a room in a house with other people.. Problem is there you're still looking at around $1400/month, so those folks need to work 100-hours a month just to pay rent. Thank god I own my home, and my mortgage is fixed.

How? The answer is: you're supposed to go live where you can afford. Then, when those people leave and there are no blue collar services, everything goes to shit and prices go down. Otherwise, whatever fix you present is going to be like pounding a square peg into a round hole. It actually is that simple, it's just not easy, emotionally speaking, to allow natural corrections to happen.

http://imgur.com/j77Z7SF

 

[PJ Diaz]

How? The answer is: you're supposed to go live where you can afford. Then, when those people leave and there are no blue collar services, everything goes to shit and prices go down. Otherwise, whatever fix you present is going to be like pounding a square peg into a round hole.

http://imgur.com/j77Z7SF

Too bad that answer hasn't worked. Sounds like a decent theory though.

 

[PJ Diaz]

I will admit I had to cycle back a ways to recover the argument.

My idea here is that business owners do not need to be sweet-talked but plainly told. They can always reincorporate elsewhere if they find socially just legislation oppressive. My sympathy here is with the worker, not the business owner. Due disclosure.

I'm glad that we can find a common ground here, because I absolutely agree.

 

[mooray]

Too bad that answer hasn't worked. Sounds like a decent theory though.

It hasn't happened.

 

[PJ Diaz]

It hasn't happened.

Thank you for proving my point. It doesn't work because it doesn't happen.

 

[mooray]

Well then there's no problem. Everyone must be able to afford it.

 

[PJ Diaz]

Well then there's no problem. Everyone must be able to afford it.

Yeah, when they have two people living in each bedroom in rundown homes owned by slumlords, it's all good! See the thing is, it's very difficult for poor people to relocate, so your simple answer is not very simple for the folks we're talking about.

I sure am glad that I got a 9% raise this year.

 

[mooray]

That's the cost of choosing to live in an expensive area. Don't move to Beverly Hills and then cry about having to pack ten deep in a room.

 

[PJ Diaz]

That's the cost of choosing to live in an expensive area. Don't move to Beverly Hills and then cry about having to pack ten deep in a room.

People don't generally get to choose where they are born, or where their parents relocate them to as children. Also don't forget about that little thing called gentrification, which is very common these days.

 

[Fogdog]

It seems like we have circled around to the beginning of this debate now, no?

I guess we're agreeing, however we aren't sure how to solve the problem, short of electing utopian leaders; however history shows that to lead towards Marxism.

White supremacists have their own utopia in mind and it is most def not democratic or Marxist.

 

[mooray]

Nobody ever said capitalism was designed to make you happy. Freedom involves a lot of hurt feelings. A lot.

The inverse is to create housing rights, where everyone has a right to live in any town. Then you have to be able to afford it, so you're going to need a right to a job as well. And you're going to have to either buy $20 loafs of bread, or subsidize it through taxes. Then to fight gentrification, you're going to have to restrict what upgrades a person can do to their own property and you're going to have to limit/control valuations.

Or....people could just live where they can afford.

 

[hanimmal]

food does. food pantry is supposed to enhance not be all. SNAP gives you the money on a card and you choose what you wish.

We have the ability to send everyone food now. I think that makes a lot more sense

Nobody ever said capitalism was designed to make you happy. Freedom involves a lot of hurt feelings. A lot.

The inverse is to create housing rights, where everyone has a right to live in any town. Then you have to be able to afford it, so you're going to need a right to a job as well. And you're going to have to either buy $20 loafs of bread, or subsidize it through taxes. Then to fight gentrification, you're going to have to restrict what upgrades a person can do to their own property and you're going to have to limit/control valuations.

Or....people could just live where they can afford.

And then you run into racist lending practices and you get to about the 1980's period of suburbanization.

 

[mooray]

And then you run into racist lending practices and you get to about the 1980's period of suburbanization.

I do think we're better equipped to handle those issues without endless laws these days, perhaps a silver lining of the interwebs. Like if some business doesn't want black employees or customers, I don't think we need lawsuits for that anymore. People will sort it out just fine.

 

[hanimmal]

I do think we're better equipped to handle those issues without endless laws these days, perhaps a silver lining of the interwebs. Like if some business doesn't want black employees or customers, I don't think we need lawsuits for that anymore. People will sort it out just fine.

Im not sure. There are all kinds of examples of racism hammering minority home sellers/buyers and employment opportunities still to this day.

The shining of a bright light on it though does dramatically increase the ability to when people post these things online and they go viral.

So you may be right in a lot of cases. It would be interesting to see how more effective public shaming does vs actual legal system, especially since one is basically free and the other prices out people's ability to achieve the justice they seek. Interesting.

 

[mooray]

I'll also add that I think we're barely scratching the surface of what we can do in terms of averting connections with people/businesses engaging in crappy behavior. I think accountability culture is only going to get better and better.

 

[Fogdog]

Nobody ever said capitalism was designed to make you happy. Freedom involves a lot of hurt feelings. A lot.

The inverse is to create housing rights, where everyone has a right to live in any town. Then you have to be able to afford it, so you're going to need a right to a job as well. And you're going to have to either buy $20 loafs of bread, or subsidize it through taxes. Then to fight gentrification, you're going to have to restrict what upgrades a person can do to their own property and you're going to have to limit/control valuations.

Or....people could just live where they can afford.

Interesting. I've seen Republicans do the same thing. Propose a stupid policy and then pile stupid actions onto the stupid policy. All in the defense of the status quo. The problem is, the status quo of California's housing market is unsustainable. It is also a drag on CA's economy and perpetuates misery and inequality for people making less than living wages. We aren't talking about feelings, we are talking about housing.

Smart people look for better alternatives. That is how progress is made.

 

[mooray]

Interesting. I've seen Republicans do the same thing. Propose a stupid policy and then pile stupid actions onto the stupid policy. All in the defense of the status quo. The problem is, the status quo of California's housing market is unsustainable. It is also a drag on CA's economy and perpetuates misery and inequality for people making less than living wages. We aren't talking about feelings, we are talking about housing.

Smart people look for better alternatives. That is how progress is made.

I'll reply if you're posting in good faith...?

I'm certainly not opposed to intelligent efforts, but to me, none of those are going to include subsidization, because that's just a tumor with endless growth. And these problems are never simple, or else they'd have already been resolved in every city across the country. But we do know that every decision is placed onto a scale and we see which weighs more. So far, in California, the efforts involved in making the job/home relationship work, has not hit the point where the bulk of people have decided that the effort is no longer worth it. Personally, I'd love to see it crash, because a severe lack of services would rebalance the job/home relationship.

 

[CatHedral]

I'll reply if you're posting in good faith...?

I'm certainly not opposed to intelligent efforts, but to me, none of those are going to include subsidization, because that's just a tumor with endless growth. And these problems are never simple, or else they'd have already been resolved in every city across the country. But we do know that every decision is placed onto a scale and we see which weighs more. So far, in California, the efforts involved in making the job/home relationship work, has not hit the point where the bulk of people have decided that the effort is no longer worth it. Personally, I'd love to see it crash, because a severe lack of services would rebalance the job/home relationship.

A crash would be murder to millions of households who could barely buy in. A slow relaxation would be easier to bear.