Ongoing deficiency issue DWC

[Anobahar]

Hey guys, first time poster. I've been trying to get advice from facebook groups but this issue has left everyone there kinda stumped so I'm bringing it here hoping you guys will have some insight.

This is my second DWC grow I've started, the first one is still ongoing and not going so well as I developed some root rot which severely stunted the plant, so I figured best to start from scratch.

Both grows are purple lemonade auto.

At first I had a deficiency which caused the leaf tips and cotyledons to burn/brown and this was remedied by adding nutes and topfeeding more aggressively till the roots touched the water. I've had this deficiency all throughout my first dwc and for some reason this completely halted it in the second one.

All was well, until soon after I started having these sort of purple spots appear on the lower leaves. They eventually browned. Plant growth has also severely halted. I upped the nutes slightly and I thought it fixed the issue, till now I have these spots on the upper leaves and a slight weird curling going on as well. Too early for me to tell if it's the same deficiency or not. Lower leaves do still appear to be getting worse. Purple stems on the leaves with the deficiency on old and new plant.

As of now, in my res have a 1030gph commercial air pump with a decent sized airstone, temps around 71F, GH Flora Trio at 2.75ml/gal of micro/grow/bloom and calimagic at 1tsp/5ml/gal. Using the gallons of distilled water that Walmart sells. Not sure if that could be an issue? Installed an RO system in my house yesterday just in case lol. 2.75 gals in the tank. Also running a bunch of hydroguard. PH is a constant steady 5.8.
I added 4 more ml of grow today to the total 2.75 gals (1.45 more ml/gal) as this does look like a potassium deficiency in my eyes but that's probably not gonna help much.

This theory is a long shot, but it's the best I've got. I've used the same syringe for all 3 nutrient bottles. I always rinse them off using the water in the res a good two three cycles of the syringe, but do you think the residual amount of nutes on the outside and inside of the syringe could have reacted and locked out the nutrients in the actual bottles since they're technically mixing? I didn't think it'd be a big enough amount to matter but it's the only thing I can think of at this point.

Third picture is an old one of my first grow with clearly the same issue but more severe.

This has been the most frustrating issue I have dealt with. All the numbers are right and she's just not happy for whatever reason and I cannot figure it out. Appreciate any input. Thanks guys.

TLDR my nutes and PH are on point and I have what I believe to be a potassium deficiency and I can't figure out why.

 

[MustGro]

Hey guys, first time poster. I've been trying to get advice from facebook groups but this issue has left everyone there kinda stumped so I'm bringing it here hoping you guys will have some insight.

This is my second DWC grow I've started, the first one is still ongoing and not going so well as I developed some root rot which severely stunted the plant, so I figured best to start from scratch.

Both grows are purple lemonade auto.

At first I had a deficiency which caused the leaf tips and cotyledons to burn/brown and this was remedied by adding nutes and topfeeding more aggressively till the roots touched the water. I've had this deficiency all throughout my first dwc and for some reason this completely halted it in the second one.

All was well, until soon after I started having these sort of purple spots appear on the lower leaves. They eventually browned. Plant growth has also severely halted. I upped the nutes slightly and I thought it fixed the issue, till now I have these spots on the upper leaves and a slight weird curling going on as well. Too early for me to tell if it's the same deficiency or not. Lower leaves do still appear to be getting worse. Purple stems on the leaves with the deficiency on old and new plant.

As of now, in my res have a 1030gph commercial air pump with a decent sized airstone, temps around 71F, GH Flora Trio at 2.75ml/gal of micro/grow/bloom and calimagic at 1tsp/5ml/gal. Using the gallons of distilled water that Walmart sells. Not sure if that could be an issue? Installed an RO system in my house yesterday just in case lol. 2.75 gals in the tank. Also running a bunch of hydroguard. PH is a constant steady 5.8.
I added 4 more ml of grow today to the total 2.75 gals (1.45 more ml/gal) as this does look like a potassium deficiency in my eyes but that's probably not gonna help much.

This theory is a long shot, but it's the best I've got. I've used the same syringe for all 3 nutrient bottles. I always rinse them off using the water in the res a good two three cycles of the syringe, but do you think the residual amount of nutes on the outside and inside of the syringe could have reacted and locked out the nutrients in the actual bottles since they're technically mixing? I didn't think it'd be a big enough amount to matter but it's the only thing I can think of at this point.

Third picture is an old one of my first grow with clearly the same issue but more severe.

This has been the most frustrating issue I have dealt with. All the numbers are right and she's just not happy for whatever reason and I cannot figure it out. Appreciate any input. Thanks guys.

TLDR my nutes and PH are on point and I have what I believe to be a potassium deficiency and I can't figure out why.

So we’re only dealing with the first 2 pics, the third is another grow, right?
You’re using a peat starter in a hydro clay filled pot. I don’t use those starters in my hydro setup. The peat can house the nasties that lead to root problems.
You have a ton of air in there, they probably don’t need that much even if they were popping, unless you‘re doing that to prevent root rot, I’d give it a rest.
Do you measure PH and Ec/Ppm?
How much is a bunch of hydroguard?
Did you switch to your RO water yet? That’s probably a good idea and easier than hauling distilled.
I don’t think your syringe theory is correct. I doubt you’re getting precipitates forming in any amount. Usually it’s silicon you have to watch with the cal/mag. I know in GH you are supposed to add the silicon before cal/mag and there is an order to mix the 3 part series too. I think anyway?

 

[Anobahar]

So we’re only dealing with the first 2 pics, the third is another grow, right?
You’re using a peat starter in a hydro clay filled pot. I don’t use those starters in my hydro setup. The peat can house the nasties that lead to root problems.
You have a ton of air in there, they probably don’t need that much even if they were popping, unless you‘re doing that to prevent root rot, I’d give it a rest.
Do you measure PH and Ec/Ppm?
How much is a bunch of hydroguard?
Did you switch to your RO water yet? That’s probably a good idea and easier than hauling distilled.
I don’t think your syringe theory is correct. I doubt you’re getting precipitates forming in any amount. Usually it’s silicon you have to watch with the cal/mag. I know in GH you are supposed to add the silicon before cal/mag and there is an order to mix the 3 part series too. I think anyway?

Hey bro, the first two vs the last pic are two different grows yes. One is still in seedling stage and one is pretty grown up now. I was just using the third pic as a reference for the same deficiency I've been having but magnified.

I think you may be onto something with the peat cubes. They are root riots and supposedly plenty use them for DWC but I can't really think of anything else at this point. I do measure EC/PPM and PH. PH is always at 5.8 and doesn't fluctuate really, if so it's only by .1 or so. EC obviously depends on the stage of growth but following feed chart guidelines just fine.

I did switch but my RO system I have takes forever just to run 3 gals so I tested my tap and discovered it's at 0 ppm (according to my bluelabs meter. It likely can't pick up lower than 20-30). For my grown plant I switched to tap and it's actually seeming to like it. A lot of new root growth out of nowhere and some stems turning green from purple. This has been a really interesting issue but I do think the root cause is root issues, no pun intended. Started a bleach regimen at 4ppm today. I was running hydroguard at 3x the recommended dose towards the end, started it at the recommended dose with no luck. The seedling has actually got some pretty bad root rot now at 3x the dose. Drooping like crazy. Temps are slightly high at 72F but not justifiable for 3x recommended hydroguard. I've checked the date, it's a brand new bottle, and I shake the hell out of it before use.

 

[MustGro]

I’ve never run hydroguard or h2o2, but lots of people do. GH runs a lot of ppm/EC in their charts, a lot of people get good results with a lower dose, but if they’re looking better on the new water, probably best to keep on the way you are.

 

[rkymtnman]

GH Flora Trio at 2.75ml/gal of micro/grow/bloom and calimagic at 1tsp/5ml/gal

that's a lot of nutes for those tiny plants

try 1mL of everything per gallon. MGB and Ca/mg

 

[MustGro]

How about a pic of your root rot @Anobahar ? Are you sure it’s rot and not just staining from the micro? Maybe the high dose of hydroguard is causing problems.

 

[Failmore]

Your way to early in the grow to have an actual deficiency. The nutes we buy are designed for weed. They have what it needs. It is p hard to have an actuall deficiency if your using the nutes proper.

What ec(ppm) does that come out to. Less is best in this case. Gotta start low low low and work your way up.

If your ec is above 1 on that small plant your frying it.

 

[Anobahar]

I’ve never run hydroguard or h2o2, but lots of people do. GH runs a lot of ppm/EC in their charts, a lot of people get good results with a lower dose, but if they’re looking better on the new water, probably best to keep on the way you are.

I'm currently running about 1/4 of GH's "recirculating" chart. It's just the one matured that's doing good. The other 6 are doing terrible despite which type of water I've used.

that's a lot of nutes for those tiny plants

try 1mL of everything per gallon. MGB and Ca/mg

I suppose it won't hurt. That's a big decrease from the grow journals for this strain that I've seen at this size but I don't know what else it could be. I'm out of options really.

How about a pic of your root rot @Anobahar ? Are you sure it’s rot and not just staining from the micro? Maybe the high dose of hydroguard is causing problems.

I washed most of it off so I can't really take a picture but the roots were a very very dark brown. It will rub off on your fingers. I think it's the dead root material rubbing off because even the underlying root isn't nice and white how it used to be. May be algae may be pythium, I don't really know the difference. I think it looks more like rot to me however. My (somewhat) healthy plant is nute stained but has no rot. Root growth has also ceased. It could be high dose of hydro. I'm switching to sterile res now though, I'm finding that with hydroguard it's kind of fighting a losing battle. No guarantee that the beneficials will outdo the pythium. Seems the pythium is winning in my case. It did cure the root rot in my last plant but I think this one is too tiny to fight it off.

Your way to early in the grow to have an actual deficiency. The nutes we buy are designed for weed. They have what it needs. It is p hard to have an actuall deficiency if your using the nutes proper.

What ec(ppm) does that come out to. Less is best in this case. Gotta start low low low and work your way up.

If your ec is above 1 on that small plant your frying it.

Yeah man that's what I thought too but it really has to be a deficiency. Whether it's deficient from root issues or improper use of nutes is another debate. I'm leaning towards root issues... however I started another 5 seedlings of a different strain (forbidden runtz) and they're on maybe day 4-5 from sprout (only have 2 sets of real leaves) and the tips are already burned with spots on the leaves as well. Roots aren't even poking out the net pot yet and I'm top feeding with calmag water so how could it be a root issue?

I am running absolutely no nutes yet on those. The tap is somehow at 0 PPM so I added half the recommended dose of calmag to the tap but that's it. I experimented with the 5 seedlings. Used some with tap, some with RO, some with distilled, all have the same exact result. For RO and distilled I used full recommended dose calmag. Hydroton was washed very very thoroughly too. I can't figure out the issue. Humidity maybe??? About to switch back to soil honestly.

Going to start some nutes now that they're starting to be deficient. First two grows did the same thing as well. The problem is usually made better with nutes but doesn't fully fix it. PPM is around 450 for the plant the thread is about.

 

[Hollatchaboy]

Make it easy on yourself and run the Lucas formula. 8ml micro, 15ml bloom. Don't use any of the grow. I use it with ro water and never need to add calmag.

If you want to make it real easy, get floranova bloom. It's the same thing as the Lucas formula only in 1 part.

 

[Anobahar]

Make it easy on yourself and run the Lucas formula. 8ml micro, 15ml bloom. Don't use any of the grow. I use it with ro water and never need to add calmag.

If you want to make it real easy, get floranova bloom. It's the same thing as the Lucas formula only in 1 part.

I've heard good things about it, but it doesn't really explain the spotting and burnt tips at such a small seedling size with only water. This has gotta be the most frustrating issue I've had. Leaf septoria maybe????

 

[Failmore]

I'm currently running about 1/4 of GH's "recirculating" chart. It's just the one matured that's doing good. The other 6 are doing terrible despite which type of water I've used.


I suppose it won't hurt. That's a big decrease from the grow journals for this strain that I've seen at this size but I don't know what else it could be. I'm out of options really.


I washed most of it off so I can't really take a picture but the roots were a very very dark brown. It will rub off on your fingers. I think it's the dead root material rubbing off because even the underlying root isn't nice and white how it used to be. May be algae may be pythium, I don't really know the difference. I think it looks more like rot to me however. My (somewhat) healthy plant is nute stained but has no rot. Root growth has also ceased. It could be high dose of hydro. I'm switching to sterile res now though, I'm finding that with hydroguard it's kind of fighting a losing battle. No guarantee that the beneficials will outdo the pythium. Seems the pythium is winning in my case. It did cure the root rot in my last plant but I think this one is too tiny to fight it off.


Yeah man that's what I thought too but it really has to be a deficiency. Whether it's deficient from root issues or improper use of nutes is another debate. I'm leaning towards root issues... however I started another 5 seedlings of a different strain (forbidden runtz) and they're on maybe day 4-5 from sprout (only have 2 sets of real leaves) and the tips are already burned with spots on the leaves as well. Roots aren't even poking out the net pot yet and I'm top feeding with calmag water so how could it be a root issue?

I am running absolutely no nutes yet on those. The tap is somehow at 0 PPM so I added half the recommended dose of calmag to the tap but that's it. I experimented with the 5 seedlings. Used some with tap, some with RO, some with distilled, all have the same exact result. For RO and distilled I used full recommended dose calmag. Hydroton was washed very very thoroughly too. I can't figure out the issue. Humidity maybe??? About to switch back to soil honestly.

Going to start some nutes now that they're starting to be deficient. First two grows did the same thing as well. The problem is usually made better with nutes but doesn't fully fix it. PPM is around 450 for the plant the thread is about.

How close is the light? Raise it a lot

 

[Anobahar]

How close is the light? Raise it a lot

It's pretty far at about 24 inches away bro. 150W quantum board on each plant. They were stretching initially so I slowly increased the intensity till they stopped stretching.

 

[Hollatchaboy]

I've heard good things about it, but it doesn't really explain the spotting and burnt tips at such a small seedling size with only water. This has gotta be the most frustrating issue I've had. Leaf septoria maybe????

I had problems also until I switched. N deficiency maybe? In dwc ph and roots are usually the first place I start.

 

[rkymtnman]

I suppose it won't hurt. That's a big decrease from the grow journals for this strain that I've seen at this size but I don't know what else it could be. I'm out of options really

i don't see what your EC is? the more important thing is if it is dropping daily? going up? staying the same?

and here's a hint: nute companies make $ selling nutes. use your EC meter to feed your plants, not a chart on a bottle or bag.

 

[rkymtnman]

and pH of 5.8 is good but sometimes it's better to let it fluctuate b/t 5.5 and 6.1

 

[myke]

I'm currently running about 1/4 of GH's "recirculating" chart. It's just the one matured that's doing good. The other 6 are doing terrible despite which type of water I've used.


I suppose it won't hurt. That's a big decrease from the grow journals for this strain that I've seen at this size but I don't know what else it could be. I'm out of options really.


I washed most of it off so I can't really take a picture but the roots were a very very dark brown. It will rub off on your fingers. I think it's the dead root material rubbing off because even the underlying root isn't nice and white how it used to be. May be algae may be pythium, I don't really know the difference. I think it looks more like rot to me however. My (somewhat) healthy plant is nute stained but has no rot. Root growth has also ceased. It could be high dose of hydro. I'm switching to sterile res now though, I'm finding that with hydroguard it's kind of fighting a losing battle. No guarantee that the beneficials will outdo the pythium. Seems the pythium is winning in my case. It did cure the root rot in my last plant but I think this one is too tiny to fight it off.


Yeah man that's what I thought too but it really has to be a deficiency. Whether it's deficient from root issues or improper use of nutes is another debate. I'm leaning towards root issues... however I started another 5 seedlings of a different strain (forbidden runtz) and they're on maybe day 4-5 from sprout (only have 2 sets of real leaves) and the tips are already burned with spots on the leaves as well. Roots aren't even poking out the net pot yet and I'm top feeding with calmag water so how could it be a root issue?

I am running absolutely no nutes yet on those. The tap is somehow at 0 PPM so I added half the recommended dose of calmag to the tap but that's it. I experimented with the 5 seedlings. Used some with tap, some with RO, some with distilled, all have the same exact result. For RO and distilled I used full recommended dose calmag. Hydroton was washed very very thoroughly too. I can't figure out the issue. Humidity maybe??? About to switch back to soil honestly.

Going to start some nutes now that they're starting to be deficient. First two grows did the same thing as well. The problem is usually made better with nutes but doesn't fully fix it. PPM is around 450 for the plant the thread is about.

Your not giving them anything but calmag and your wondering why they have spots??
Try giving them food and no calmag.

 

[rkymtnman]

Your not giving them anything but calmag and your wondering why they have spots??
Try giving them food and no calmag.

good call. i didn't see that.

 

[Hollatchaboy]

good call. i didn't see that.

Nor did i.

 

[Anobahar]

I had problems also until I switched. N deficiency maybe? In dwc ph and roots are usually the first place I start.

I'll give it a try why not. Roots are really my biggest suspicion atm. None of the seedlings roots have made it through the netpot, still top feeding. Just seems like really slow root growth. They're obviously hungry.

i don't see what your EC is? the more important thing is if it is dropping daily? going up? staying the same?

and here's a hint: nute companies make $ selling nutes. use your EC meter to feed your plants, not a chart on a bottle or bag.

PPM is around 450 now on the seedlings after I started feeding.

Your not giving them anything but calmag and your wondering why they have spots??
Try giving them food and no calmag.

I was informed that no food during the seedling stage + calmag is recommended. Once they started having spots (even though they were extremely small) I started to feed them. They've been around 450ppm and the issue is still progressing. No roots touching the water yet so I've been top feeding.

 

[rkymtnman]

450 ppm is way too high IMO.

are they growing in just hydroton? or is there rockwool in there too?