5 weeks 3 days old. And now have some lighting going on, on the leaves

HiddenFarm

HiddenFarm

Member
Looks to me like it could be a PH level problem. We also have PH around 7.3 in tapwater and I lower my water to about 6-6.3 PH in soil. If I do Coco or Hydro I usually lower it even more, to about 5.5.
For me it doesn't look like a light problem.
 
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Slartibart4242

Member
Well you are doing it for all the right reasons flyaway!!! And you can definitely grow good medicine with your lights. I went from starting with CFL spiral bulbs, to burple LEDs, to an advanced LED light which had 11 different spectrum diodes, and finally now have a quantum board. All of these were able to produce flower that I was happy with and so long as it gets the job done who cares if it’s “the best”. There is always a newer “better” option...

The point I was trying to lead to is that depending on your needs you could probably get away with one light for veg and use the other for flower and eventually have a perpetual grow. So you would have less time between harvests. But right now the goal is to get to your first harvest. And running just one light will help with your temperatures as it will produce half the heat as running both. Not that 89 is going to be too hot as that’s a perfectly normal summer temperature for outdoor growing.

as for running both the veg and flower diodes at the same time during veg you will receive a lot of answers on both ends of the spectrum. Some people like more blue during veg others prefer a more full spectrum with the additional red. There are benefits to both arguments and ultimately it’s up to you to decide. But both options will work. just stick to one option though so you don’t confuse the plants. Switching between veg+bloom and then back to bloom and then back to veg+bloom over and over during veg is not good.
 
drsaltzman

drsaltzman

Well-Known Member
flyawayclyde said:
5 weeks 3days. When I had a little sprout break the surface.
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I guess technically they're 5 weeks, but they're young still.
I wanna say it's a PH problem.
Just not sure where it's coming from though.
Steer manure is pretty neutral and won't affect the soil PH a whole lot.
Same for EWC, MG soil and I'm gonna assume the organic soil mix you bought as well.
I doubt one 1/4 strength feed of nutes is gonna throw anything out of whack.
Your water PH of 7.4 is close to neutral too, before you adjusted it.
Are your adjustments spot on? A little PH down goes a long way.

Steer manure, plus MG, plus organic soil, plus EWC ... the soil could be a little hot?
That could stunt a plant, though you'd probably see some other signs too like burnt tips.

I'd continue to water as you are and see if it gets worse or better.
I wouldn't feed any more nutes.
The plants are too small to have used up what's already in the soil.
 
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Slartibart4242

Member
HiddenFarm said:
Looks to me like it could be a PH level problem. We also have PH around 7.3 in tapwater and I lower my water to about 6-6.3 PH in soil. If I do Coco or Hydro I usually lower it even more, to about 5.5.
For me it doesn't look like a light problem.
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we established it was a nutrient issue. I just wanted to better explain the lighting since one of my earlier questions was asking about height and flyaway has since moved the light higher away. I tend to over explain sometimes. So sorry if it came across as that being “the issue”. What I do see on here is a lot of people changing variables with no thought as to why they did something other than well so and so told me too. And from a scientific perspective you want to minimize the variables to establish a control. I hadn’t posted in 10 years but I see people on here literally reinvent their process every single grow. Go from soil to coco to hydro to another hydro type and change lights four times as well and never end up with great weed and wonder why they can’t figure it out. So I’m trying to establish that sometimes you need to start so try something more basic and don’t focus on the things that make a 10% difference or less. PHing any water that is between 6-7.5 for soil doesn’t make sense. You are increase the PPM of the water with minimal changes to the result. For hydro and coco it makes all the sense in the world. But for soil focus on getting a soil that will last a couple months and only amend as needed with nutrients. You don’t need something like the GH Go Box with 12 plus nutrient supplements to grow good weed. Let’s start with basic addition and subtraction before we jump into calculus and then quantum physics. There is always room to fine tune after you’ve had a couple of successful grows in you. But don’t be afraid to ask why someone is suggestion something.
 
HiddenFarm

HiddenFarm

Member
Slartibart4242 said:
we established it was a nutrient issue. I just wanted to better explain the lighting since one of my earlier questions was asking about height and flyaway has since moved the light higher away. I tend to over explain sometimes. So sorry if it came across as that being “the issue”. What I do see on here is a lot of people changing variables with no thought as to why they did something other than well so and so told me too. And from a scientific perspective you want to minimize the variables to establish a control. I hadn’t posted in 10 years but I see people on here literally reinvent their process every single grow. Go from soil to coco to hydro to another hydro type and change lights four times as well and never end up with great weed and wonder why they can’t figure it out. So I’m trying to establish that sometimes you need to start so try something more basic and don’t focus on the things that make a 10% difference or less. PHing any water that is between 6-7.5 for soil doesn’t make sense. You are increase the PPM of the water with minimal changes to the result. For hydro and coco it makes all the sense in the world. But for soil focus on getting a soil that will last a couple months and only amend as needed with nutrients. You don’t need something like the GH Go Box with 12 plus nutrient supplements to grow good weed. Let’s start with basic addition and subtraction before we jump into calculus and then quantum physics. There is always room to fine tune after you’ve had a couple of successful grows in you. But don’t be afraid to ask why someone is suggestion something.
Click to expand...
Sorry if I offended you somehow, Just trying to help. I have been experimenting a lot the last couple of years, how else will one learn.
I found that if you grow outdoors, you wouldn't need to PH adjust, you know rainwater, worms etc. but when in a controlled indoor environment where you have to BE nature, you need to make adjustments even PH your water when growing in soil.
I know that plant roots in soil will create its own micro environment, it will stabilize PH, store the sugars needed for growth etc. But it can and will also accept a helping hand, reducing PH will allow the plant to absorb nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, sulphur and calcium a little better.
For me it's inconceivable to grow cannabis at PH 7.5, sorry to say.
 
S

Slartibart4242

Member
Im not trying to argue, but do you use a mycorrhizal fungi in your soil? Having fungi break down the nutrients and stabilize the soil is the exact way it’s done in nature. Flyaway is using well water which is just rain water filtered through the earth.

the point I was trying to make is that you are focusing on something that has negligible difference to the final outcome. So why not eliminate PHing from the equation until the original poster gets a nice healthy plant in the flower stage or a couple good grows. Sometimes you have to take a step back before you can step forward so I was just trying to simplify the equation. I provided a solution of suggestion a soil with a mycorrhizae fungi already in it. There are hundreds of scientific papers that have proven that fungi fix the PH at the root level.

I’m not saying that PHing can’t help grows. It just has a much bigger impact in hydro and coco than in a soil. Even spring water is typically slightly alkaline. But if your having to PH your water down to 6 in soil, that shows that your soil is off and it’s a bandaid solution that is fixing the soil problem. There are a million different recipes for success. Just look at all the nute blends out there. There is also a plethora of genetics that have all been evolved to different mediums for growth. Weed is highly adaptable after all. But a PH a half step off of “perfect” is not going to cause a plant to yellow and burn. Alkaline starts at 8 and we are at 7.5. Spring water is usually around 7.3-7.4, but yes, there is variability and it can be slightly acidic as well.

mycorrhizal fungi is passive. Once it’s in the soil it grows on it’s own. PHing is something that you do every single watering. Which is an easier solution to a PH problem adding mycorrhizal fungi to the soil or using chemicals to PH your water every single time you water the plants?
 
1

1212ham

Well-Known Member
Cycad said:
Your 'Hydro Crunch' "280 W" lamp actually consumes less than 100 watts input power and its efficiency is around 85% so in reality, rather than in your dreams, you are running about 85 watts per lamp. And how many plants are you trying to grow? I am just going to go away now because I am scaring the dog laughing too loudly...
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How do you come up with "less than 100 watts input power"? Everything I see says 240w true power, 600w LED power and 600w HPS/MH equivalent.
 
Cycad

Cycad

Well-Known Member
1212ham said:
How do you come up with "less than 100 watts input power"? Everything I see says 240w true power, 600w LED power and 600w HPS/MH equivalent.
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From their Web site. It doesn't matter a damn what they call the lights. It's the same shit you get when you go to buy a loudspeaker system and they tell you it's "1000 watts PMPO" - RMS is what counts. In the case of the lights quoted, the manufacturer said they DRAW 100W from the mains. And then conversion efficiency of LEDs is 85% MAX! So unless you've got some kind of perpetual magic machine, that is what you've got. Now, I've grown indoors and I reckon a minimum of a 150W HPS per plant. So, in your case I'd use BOTH of your 85 watt lamps for one plant in flower. That should do it. When you buy lighting, always, always, check the mains current draw -- they HAVE to state that -- and multiply by 0.85 to get the real power. Do not believe statements like 'equivalent to' etc. -- I'm an engineer and we have a saying: You can't kid metal, only people.
 
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Three Berries

Three Berries

Well-Known Member
Cycad said:
I mean, look at this https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hydro-Crunch-3-in-1-Light-White-Watt-LED-LED-Grow-Light/1000476807 from Lowes. $265. And they say: "To replace traditional 600-Watt HPS/MH while consuming only 240-Watt (true wattage)"
What BS. Someone offers me a LED lamp putting out (240 x 0.85 = 204 watts) or a 600W HPS? NO FREAKING CONTEST! HPS for the win. I love LED lights but not when they are rip-off.
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They need to come up with a standard way to rate them and like you say by the actual electrical use. I have some Samsung 600w boards that draw 60 watts. Why the BS? What is the 600Ws referencing?

Got some 60watt burples once. POS that only drew 6 watts! LOL good party lights.

Then again my first LEDs were home made 3-100W 32v COBs that indeed drew 100w. Used them for three years.
 
1

1212ham

Well-Known Member
Cycad said:
From their Web site. It doesn't matter a damn what they call the lights. It's the same shit you get when you go to buy a loudspeaker system and they tell you it's "1000 watts PMPO" - RMS is what counts. In the case of the lights quoted, the manufacturer said they DRAW 100W from the mains. And then conversion efficiency of LEDs is 85% MAX! So unless you've got some kind of perpetual magic machine, that is what you've got. Now, I've grown indoors and I reckon a minimum of a 150W HPS per plant. So, in your case I'd use BOTH of your 85 watt lamps for one plant in flower. That should do it. When you buy lighting, always, always, check the mains current draw -- they HAVE to state that -- and multiply by 0.85 to get the real power. Do not believe statements like 'equivalent to' etc. -- I'm an engineer and we have a saying: You can't kid metal, only people.
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I'm well aware of the BS from Chinese sellers.
Where does the manufacture say they "DRAW 100W from the mains"? In the last picture I see 2.019A at 120V, that's 240W.

www.hydrocrunch.com

Hydro Crunch 600W Veg & Bloom LED Fixture

Hydro Crunch 600W Veg & Bloom LED Fixture
www.hydrocrunch.com

ManufacturerHydro Crunch
SKUB350100200
Warranty3 Years
UseVeg and Bloom
Wattage240W
HID Replacement600W HPS/MH
LED Power600W
VEG Power180W +/-5%
BLOOM Power240W +/-5%
LED Quantity120PCS 5W EPISTAR LED
Lifespan50000 Hours
Hardware IncludedYes
IP RateIP20
Input VoltageAC100-240V
Frequency50-60 Hz
Dimensions15.6 in. x 12.6 in. x 3 in.
Weight11.5 lbs
# of Daisy ChainMAX 4 units
Coverage Area3 ft. x 3 ft.
CertificationCE Certified
 
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drsaltzman

drsaltzman

Well-Known Member
1212ham said:
These are the specs from their website, where does the manufacture say they "DRAW 100W from the mains"?

www.hydrocrunch.com

Hydro Crunch 600W Veg & Bloom LED Fixture

Hydro Crunch 600W Veg & Bloom LED Fixture
www.hydrocrunch.com

ManufacturerHydro Crunch
SKUB350100200
Warranty3 Years
UseVeg and Bloom
Wattage240W
HID Replacement600W HPS/MH
LED Power600W
VEG Power180W +/-5%
BLOOM Power240W +/-5%
LED Quantity120PCS 5W EPISTAR LED
Lifespan50000 Hours
Hardware IncludedYes
IP RateIP20
Input VoltageAC100-240V
Frequency50-60 Hz
Dimensions15.6 in. x 12.6 in. x 3 in.
Weight11.5 lbs
# of Daisy ChainMAX 4 units
Coverage Area3 ft. x 3 ft.
CertificationCE Certified
Click to expand...
OP’s post says 280W Hydro Crunch.
Assuming this is it, it’s 120W draw.

Hydro Crunch B350200200 300-Watt Full Spectrum LED
 
1

1212ham

Well-Known Member
drsaltzman said:
OP’s post says 280W Hydro Crunch.
Assuming this is it, it’s 120W draw.

Hydro Crunch B350200200 300-Watt Full Spectrum LED
Click to expand...
@Cycad linked the 240w/600w light and OP also said it's the 480W kit, it has two lights, 240w actual/600w BS.

Slartibart4242 said:

So I’m guessing you purchased something like the kit I posted above. Which I am going to be honest is kind of an odd setup. The tent is 4 x 4 so not really big enough to run both lights, but too big to really just run one light during flower. So it’s really up to you if you want to run both. But during veg you could just run a single light and cut down on your electrical bill.
Click to expand...
flyawayclyde said:
Yes, I did get that kit. But at the other big box store. And I was running both lamps, because someone else told me, they barely had enough power to light the area adequately, and I was running both lamps with both modes on at the time.
Click to expand...
 
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F

flyawayclyde

Well-Known Member
So under the suggestion and guidance of another member here, To which I want to say thank you!!!!
Yes, I have to get the soil under control. I have Flushed the pots with Distilled water. And am playing a waiting game now. I know and realize that the stunting that has happened from the initial soil condition may have permanently caused a reduction in yield. But this is okay, for it is only for one user, who is a very light user. I still want to learn all I can about this plant, how it grows, and everything else necessary to overcome this last trail with my error in using miracle grow soil.
That all said. I am very grateful to all who have come to my aid here, and also to everyone else who wanted to give there .02$.
Flyaway
 
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