How far can "ripeness" be pushed?

[ComfortCreator]

The best growers grow the best cannabis.

It is that simple, and complicated, in one short sentence.

30 years ago, I had never seen or tried anything quite like the bud grown in the Netherlands. It was bright, gorgeous yarn looking stuff, perfectly grown, dried, cured, and smuggled one way or the other to the USA. The best versions were shipped so as not to be harmed on a person carrying it and hiding it.

THAT, at the time, stood out and was a true standard. So good in fact that although I havent had bud from there in likely 15 years now, it still stands out to me.

There was pride, expertise, genetics and THE BEST GROWERS at that time. It seemed amazingly pricey and was well worth it compared to others. Maybe $10-$20/g or so if I remember correctly?

There is so much mediocre because there are so many mediocre growers. Politics in the US at least, allows it. Limited numbers of cultivators either set by law or high barriers to entry allows it. If you have the cash to try and play, mediocre will sell.

As mentioned several times, quality even in the stores is not really set by price! They almost never know, or care what is "best" in the stores. "This", whatever it is that day, is what they sell. And what the consumers buy.

The REAL reason imo that we dont have a premium market is again, it is not nationally legal in the US. So that again allows mediocre to reign. The best grower cant grow an unlimited supply to ship around...no, the market doesnt allow that. And the AVERAGE consumer who goes in a store is not necessarily looking to get the very best available! Some are...but not enough yet.

In America, brands are what used to be trusted. We have sold out most of that too sadly, but that is how it will happen eventually.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

It seemed amazingly pricey and was well worth it compared to others. Maybe $10-$20/g or so if I remember correctly?

That should still be the going rate as of today. Incidentally it's also the going BM rate (rather towards $12 for the "average consumer").

The Netherlands have never formally "legalized" weed nationally. Even today it is only "tolerated". The coffee shops and the growers are mostly boutique outfits, they can charge a good price and it's worth their while producing quality.

I'm pretty sure that many of them are still very proud of those achievements and they will not compromise on quality for that reason alone.

With all the stuff that got smuggled out of the country, it's probably not "the fire" all the time. We've always liked "Dutch weed" when we supposed it was actually from NL, but certainly nothing beats the stuff you can buy in the coffee shops (or rather "could buy", because selling to foreigners is no longer allowed).

 

[ComfortCreator]

That should still be the going rate as of today. Incidentally it's also the going BM rate (rather towards $12 for the "average consumer").

The Netherlands have never formally "legalized" weed nationally. Even today it is only "tolerated". The coffee shops and the growers are mostly boutique outfits, they can charge a good price and it's worth their while producing quality.

I'm pretty sure that many of them are still very proud of those achievements and they will not compromise on quality for that reason alone.

With all the stuff that got smuggled out of the country, it's probably not "the fire" all the time. We've always liked "Dutch weed" when we supposed it was actually from NL, but certainly nothing beats the stuff you can buy in the coffee shops (or rather "could buy", because selling to foreigners is no longer allowed).

Wow the timing of cutting off foreigners seems crazy, but I did see lots of news reports of huge amounts crossing the border there.

Kind of goes with our discussion...the Dutch have brillant engineers, and in plant horticulture they have some top minds. They should embrace it and become a "Canna" country and dominate. Instead they bow to politics and other countries resentment of their advanced capabilities.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

The "cutting off" already happened some years ago. The political situation in EU is complex, because things like Cannabis legalization are not harmonized.

When a country like NL goes "quasi-legal", and the neighbouring countries do not, you will of course have a lot of BM smuggling happening. That will make said neighbours unhappy and the Dutch government has to react.

The Netherlands are right in the center of Europe, and it's a small country. They'd rather spent their resources elsewhere than fighting Cannabis smuggling.

Spain is now "quasi-legal", too, but they have far fewer EU borders (or countries close to them) than the Netherlands; I'm pretty sure there's plenty of smuggling out of Spain into, say, France now. Also, in the Spanish system there are no "coffee shops", only "private clubs" that exist due to a loop hole in the law. You cannot legally buy there unless you are a "club member".

Domestic growing has also dramatically increased over the past 10-15 years, but of course the weed produced is not the same as what you get in Dutch boutiques.

I buy hardly any flower because I consume so little of it, but when I talk to friends who partake a lot, they never know where the product actually comes from, they usually know the strains though. That is a clear sign to me that it's "home-grown" right here, and their supplier is the direct middle man.

Mind you I'm not an expert on the BM here, but many aspects are just very obvious when you think about it. Growing domestically is just a lot less risky than smuggling.

 

[Slartibart4242]

I love Dutch genetics and when I do buy seeds I always get from the Netherlands. Usually from Nirvana Seeds because they are great genetics for the price. However you don’t see people running the classic White/Black Widows, Northern Lights, or Super Silver Hazes anymore.

However one of the best things to ever happen to US genetics is the opening of The Pharm in Arizona. Sjoerd Broeks from the Flying Dutchman is using massive greenhouses to test and stabilize genetics for many of the top breeders in the USA. Apparently he is typically growing out 500 plus seeds of the same strain to search for the phenotypes to breed with. Plus since they are using greenhouses they aren’t evolving the genetics to indoor lighting. If you are bored I’d read the article or watch the video I posted below.

StackPath

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

the Dutch have brillant engineers, and in plant horticulture they have some top minds. They should embrace it and become a "Canna" country and dominate. Instead they bow to politics and other countries resentment of their advanced capabilities.

This needs another comment, I feel.

Not sure what you mean by "they bow to politics". If Cannabis is illegal, there's not much "bowing" to do; you cannot grow it commercially then.

Also I don't think other countries "resent" the capabilities of the Dutch, and therefore make Cannabis illegal. It has nothing to do with that. The Netherlands is a quasi-legal country for historical reasons that have not much to do with their horticultural tradition. That's just a lucky coincidence.

If Cannabis was legalized across the EU, nobody would mind getting the good stuff from NL. Nobody would resent them for being "the best" in EU in that area.

Economically the EU is one country. The idea behind the European Union is economical, not political. As long as you buy from another EU country, you're buying "domestically", the money stays at home, so to speak. Surely European nations compete with each other, but not in the sense that we compete with the US or China.

 

[HGCC]

I love Dutch genetics and when I do buy seeds I always get from the Netherlands. Usually from Nirvana Seeds because they are great genetics for the price. However you don’t see people running the classic White/Black Widows, Northern Lights, or Super Silver Hazes anymore.

However one of the best things to ever happen to US genetics is the opening of The Pharm in Arizona. Sjoerd Broeks from the Flying Dutchman is using massive greenhouses to test and stabilize genetics for many of the top breeders in the USA. Apparently he is typically growing out 500 plus seeds of the same strain to search for the phenotypes to breed with. Plus since they are using greenhouses they aren’t evolving the genetics to indoor lighting. If you are bored I’d read the article or watch the video I posted below.

StackPath

Cool stuff, visiting the flying Dutchman was one the highlights of going to Amsterdam. Really interested in what they come out with. I am pretty fond of Dutch weed.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

Apparently he is typically growing out 500 plus seeds of the same strain to search for the phenotypes to breed with.

From how I read the article, he's not even breeding, they are going to these lengths to find the best mothers for the crops they're selling.

 

[Slartibart4242]

From how I read the article, he's not even breeding, they are going to these lengths to find the best mothers for the crops they're selling.

that’s why I included the video where he explains more of what they are doing.... but I may have misunderstood... I smoke a lot of pot...

 

[HGCC]

Well damn.

 

[myke]

I have a small outdoor plant that flower started on June 21,light dep.Shes now day 91.Have grown her indoors several times but never going past 70 days. Cloudy is all I would get.Checked a few days ago and its about 10% amber.Took a sample will be dry in a few days. Looking forward to a taste test.

 

[Slartibart4242]

You made me rewatch the video. So he does grow out 500+ seeds of each variety. Tests them in 4 different seasonal environments and invites the original breeders for both selection and any breeding endeavors.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

You made me rewatch the video. So he does grow out 500+ seeds of each variety. Tests them in 4 different seasonal environments and invites the original breeders for both selection and any breeding endeavors.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy, apparently he is a rockstar in the genetics scene so the breeders are more than happy to visit and exchange knowledge both ways.

Being able to grow 250ish mother plants and then narrow that down to 1 or 2 plants for your production is a big advantage I can imagine.

 

[ComfortCreator]

This needs another comment, I feel.

Not sure what you mean by "they bow to politics". If Cannabis is illegal, there's not much "bowing" to do; you cannot grow it commercially then.

Also I don't think other countries "resent" the capabilities of the Dutch, and therefore make Cannabis illegal. It has nothing to do with that. The Netherlands is a quasi-legal country for historical reasons that have not much to do with their horticultural tradition. That's just a lucky coincidence.

If Cannabis was legalized across the EU, nobody would mind getting the good stuff from NL. Nobody would resent them for being "the best" in EU in that area.

Economically the EU is one country. The idea behind the European Union is economical, not political. As long as you buy from another EU country, you're buying "domestically", the money stays at home, so to speak. Surely European nations compete with each other, but not in the sense that we compete with the US or China.

I'm just saying look at the future. It will be legal in the USA and all of Europe eventually. Why get behind the curve when they can stay at the front? What's the fallout if they announce it is legal in the NL and anybody can buy whatever they want? Will the other countries really shut them out?

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

It will be legal in the USA and all of Europe eventually.

Stop saying that. It just sounds too good to be true.

Probably you are right, though. When enough countries have followed suit, the remaining dominoes will topple quickly.

What's the fallout if they announce it is legal in the NL and anybody can buy whatever they want? Will the other countries really shut them out?

I'm not an expert for European Law -- there are actual university courses for just that. In many cases the member states can do whatever the fuck they want, as long as it does not touch trade or economics.

I think one of the last things to happen before the Final Judgment is for the European Union to announce that Cannabis is to be legalized, and to enforce that on member states. There are just so many more pressing issues that nobody will burn political capital on Cannabis.

If a country actually formally went "legal", they would have to deal with the BM issue eventually. As for how this would take place, I have no idea. The Dutch duct-taped it by forbidding sale to foreigners.

I think if Germany, for example, actually went full-on legal, all the neighbouring countries would have to follow suit really fast, or else they'd just lose a ton of potential tax income and would have to deal with a fuckton of smuggling on top of that.

One of the EU core countries would have to go legal, i.e. either Germany or France (in that case they'd probably coordinate that).

 

[phrygian44]

One of the EU core countries would have to go legal, i.e. either Germany or France (in that case they'd probably coordinate that).

you guys keep forgetting about your friendly neighbors to the North.
not only is it legal, with a Shit-load of dispensaries dispensing just about anything we want to try, but we can grow our own in our backyards. : P

 

[Slartibart4242]

you guys keep forgetting about your friendly neighbors to the North.
not only is it legal, with a Shit-load of dispensaries dispensing just about anything we want to try, but we can grow our own in our backyards. : P

friendly? You closed the doors and won’t let us in... just kidding. Yeah but to be honest Aurora kinda scares me with some of their more recent press releases. The new CEO (who does live in the USA and hasn’t been to Canada since he took over the company) has announced that they will be offering genetically modified strains and they are already using electron-beam therapy on certain strains. plus they sell their products internationally.... so please don’t fuck up the precedent of international weed sales Canada!

but in all honest I love hockey so as a result I have a soft spot for Canadians.

 

[phrygian44]

but in all honest I love hockey so as a result I have a soft spot for Canadians.

i was really liking your reply until you mention the Canadians. where's the Ban button?

Kidding
always nice havin' ya's as a neighbour. just don't go buildin' no wall along our open boarder, or we won't be able to smuggle in our Canadian Grown product.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

you guys keep forgetting about your friendly neighbors to the North.
not only is it legal, with a Shit-load of dispensaries dispensing just about anything we want to try, but we can grow our own in our backyards. : P

I'm in Europe. Our friendly neighbours to the North are the English .

Fits your avatar picture, of course. I love Little Britain.

 

[phrygian44]

I'm in Europe. Our friendly neighbours to the North are the English .

lmfao
I know... (in my best Andy Pipkin voice)

guess i need to be more specific next time.