I actually did once and saw zero difference.
How far can "ripeness" be pushed?
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CheGueVapo
Well-Known Member
Does it mean you as a human not having that genetic capability is dying in space because of your genes... thats a false simplification!
Edit: Tardigrada, i wanted to name!
CheGueVapo
Well-Known Member
Here:
According to your logic, its your genes fault that you cant go without space-suit into space... but these theoretically CAN.... just bring them there... they survive.
Your genes fault you cannot.... go to evolution class and transform yourself into a higher beeing... or just jump from a bridge,
I bet they not only better in function to survive in space, they have more beautiful face than you too high likely.... so if thats true, definetly go jump from a bridge
Dont be angry, its your genes fault! You did nothing wrong All your brainery doesnt protect you from space.... you wont survive 1 year without clothing and a house just because of a "normal winter". You are just a faulty genetically totally disrupted human who cannot even survive in space, on yourself you cant survive anything alone, and you cannot exterminate anything without a gun, just pissing your pants, you are practically exterminated when the firearms doesnt pick up the phone and you are only seeing flames around you 
.... pity with the piffling lower lifeforms. They are made from sugars! Just sacks of carbohydrates! One rain naked in the autumn and you die without your umbrellas returning to a warm house you gettin sick and cold flu covid wtf... die like a fly!
You are alive because of ONLY technology... not because of genes! Humans is a genetic failure... except the brain! But from what most exemplars of the species take use of it.... extermination of human race isn't that far distant in the future foreseeable... it comes closer and closer! Because of our collective stupidity! Is that genes fault? Or the EGOs of the few that are in control of the biggest chunk of corporate economy in the world? Dont know! Could be both! Could be our genes fault let us all that happen. Stockholm syndrome?
The deep state? Your genes fault.....
The nazis killing the jews in WWII... their genes fault.
The americans having concentration camps for japanese BEFORE the war... the japanes genes fault
I can proceed this on and on... to make it clear how stupid those assumptions are...
According to your logic, its your genes fault that you cant go without space-suit into space... but these theoretically CAN.... just bring them there... they survive.
Your genes fault you cannot.... go to evolution class and transform yourself into a higher beeing... or just jump from a bridge,
I bet they not only better in function to survive in space, they have more beautiful face than you too high likely.... so if thats true, definetly go jump from a bridge
Dont be angry, its your genes fault! You did nothing wrong
All your brainery doesnt protect you from space.... you wont survive 1 year without clothing and a house just because of a "normal winter". You are just a faulty genetically totally disrupted human who cannot even survive in space, on yourself you cant survive anything alone, and you cannot exterminate anything without a gun, just pissing your pants, you are practically exterminated when the firearms doesnt pick up the phone and you are only seeing flames around you .... pity with the piffling lower lifeforms. They are made from sugars! Just sacks of carbohydrates! One rain naked in the autumn and you die without your umbrellas returning to a warm house you gettin sick and cold flu covid wtf... die like a fly!You are alive because of ONLY technology... not because of genes! Humans is a genetic failure... except the brain! But from what most exemplars of the species take use of it.... extermination of human race isn't that far distant in the future foreseeable... it comes closer and closer! Because of our collective stupidity! Is that genes fault? Or the EGOs of the few that are in control of the biggest chunk of corporate economy in the world? Dont know! Could be both! Could be our genes fault let us all that happen. Stockholm syndrome?
The nazis killing the jews in WWII... their genes fault.
The americans having concentration camps for japanese BEFORE the war... the japanes genes fault
I can proceed this on and on... to make it clear how stupid those assumptions are...
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Budzbuddha
Well-Known Member
Ok … what in the fuck does that or any of your ramblings have to do with the subject at hand ?
CheGueVapo
Well-Known Member
I was reffering and answering to this.
It does not DIE indoor! Short & Simple...
You can continue until it rotts away... because at some point it goes doing that... but the reason is not because its geneticall programmed, but because you cant manage the indoor conditions from preventing that thingy from rotting continuing on and on... his assumption is just wrong.
ALso this means not "to push" juist continue growing.... as the THC turns into CBN.... wtf back at you! That ha snothing to do with "pushing ripeness further"... it doesnt mean "flower longer".... false assumption... just flower loonger for pushing ripeness... he is sotally making stupid assumptions.
The assumptions he states about genes, anything is just genes fault... remember me about "eugenics"... and its BS! This is exactl ywhat the nazis did... reducing anything to just genes! Giving any reason or meaning only to the genes... like "your genes are fault you got in a car accident, because your genes let you be there at that place at that time... no matter the accident wasnt even your fault... its the your genes fault whatever it is..... thats a crazy wweltanschauung that could be straight from hitler personally, he was exactly that crazy too! Maybe he read "mein kampf" and liked it! Its full of this kind of bullshit!
And his rejectance to my explaination that this isn't true.
It does not DIE indoor! Short & Simple...
You can continue until it rotts away... because at some point it goes doing that... but the reason is not because its geneticall programmed, but because you cant manage the indoor conditions from preventing that thingy from rotting continuing on and on... his assumption is just wrong.
ALso this means not "to push" juist continue growing.... as the THC turns into CBN.... wtf back at you! That ha snothing to do with "pushing ripeness further"... it doesnt mean "flower longer".... false assumption... just flower loonger for pushing ripeness... he is sotally making stupid assumptions.
The assumptions he states about genes, anything is just genes fault... remember me about "eugenics"... and its BS! This is exactl ywhat the nazis did... reducing anything to just genes! Giving any reason or meaning only to the genes... like "your genes are fault you got in a car accident, because your genes let you be there at that place at that time... no matter the accident wasnt even your fault... its the your genes fault whatever it is..... thats a crazy wweltanschauung that could be straight from hitler personally, he was exactly that crazy too! Maybe he read "mein kampf" and liked it! Its full of this kind of bullshit!
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Slartibart4242
Member
It’s a shame that we have forgotten the basic principles of how nature works. We live in an era where society has been taught that we need purchase everything, rather than re-utilize the world around us. But just for reemphasis look at red wood trees that are thousands of years old. They have 10-15 feet wide trunks and are massive. But we cut down too many of our forest or destroyed them during war, that few people have the luxury to view than anymore. It’s really just the Pacific Northwest in the United States any more and that’s entirely due to industrialization and nationalization in that America was colonized East to West. But even alligators are biologically immortal and that so long as they have a food source and aren’t killed they will live forever. (Makes you wonder about the mythical dragons, but not to go down that tangent). It’s humans that’s have destroyed the ecosystems of earth and who are naive enough to believe that technology is the solution. The Amazon rain forest is a self sustaining eco system and has actually a zero net loss water cycle. All the water in the Amazon rises and falls in the Amazon. But with that logic of having self sustained ecosystems that means the solution has to be catered to the local environment.
I agree that there are technological solutions that do enhance modern societies and for me it’s about finding a balance of both and minimizing my impact on the earth. I have driven a car 3 times in the three years.
However, I do like where this thread has touched though on the importance of stressing soil, genetics, water, and lighting because it’s a combination of all of these. But everyone is going to have their solution as to what they prefer and find the “best”. There are people who pop new seeds every grow because they want to try a variety of things and never run the same strain twice. There are people who pheno hunt the same strain through hundreds of seeds to find the perfect mother and clone clone clone from there. There are people who also after every grow don’t chop the entire plant and just reveg the plant for a month and then flower it all over again.
I think that it is important to discuss the pros of cons of each though. Because not everyone wants the absolute highest THC numbers in the world. I realize the race to reach 50% THC already began and I’m just now walking up to the starting line. But I don’t think the industry as a whole would survive if that’s was the only choice and it had to be “cut” by sifting just so that the average user could consume it. There are times when I don’t want to be ripped out of mind, but at the same time I love smoking so much I want to smoke a blunt or two, but only want a mild buzz. It’s more relaxing for me to smoke the entire blunt and meditate in my mind rather than hit something once or twice and put it out.
I agree that there are technological solutions that do enhance modern societies and for me it’s about finding a balance of both and minimizing my impact on the earth. I have driven a car 3 times in the three years.
However, I do like where this thread has touched though on the importance of stressing soil, genetics, water, and lighting because it’s a combination of all of these. But everyone is going to have their solution as to what they prefer and find the “best”. There are people who pop new seeds every grow because they want to try a variety of things and never run the same strain twice. There are people who pheno hunt the same strain through hundreds of seeds to find the perfect mother and clone clone clone from there. There are people who also after every grow don’t chop the entire plant and just reveg the plant for a month and then flower it all over again.
I think that it is important to discuss the pros of cons of each though. Because not everyone wants the absolute highest THC numbers in the world. I realize the race to reach 50% THC already began and I’m just now walking up to the starting line. But I don’t think the industry as a whole would survive if that’s was the only choice and it had to be “cut” by sifting just so that the average user could consume it. There are times when I don’t want to be ripped out of mind, but at the same time I love smoking so much I want to smoke a blunt or two, but only want a mild buzz. It’s more relaxing for me to smoke the entire blunt and meditate in my mind rather than hit something once or twice and put it out.
CheGueVapo
Well-Known Member
Im with you most of it. Good posting, thank you for your opinions.
Its like a woman who never had a child and a woman who has had children already... who is hotter in investing everything to get preggy because the clocks ticking and who already faces the wall already having had the bell ring? One has the right hormones... the other no more! One is young... the other old.
Wheres your best chances for healthy strong kids? Right the younger, with the right hormones, who not had a child yet. She is ready. They other one is DONE! haha, you can try the other, but when it comes down to quality, she could face problem, and then you must care her whining claiming your soldiers are to weak and YOU are fault when it is not working out never the old ladies in their 50s with an empty box of eggs, how could think such.... Same for cannabis females...you want them barely legal for enyoing the best fruits. 
Anectote:
Paul and Emma have been couple for very long time. They had no children ever because thats what Paul didn't liked.
Now he has got a younger one and for a kid with her: Paul runs on a race, ... Emma is 48, single and stands there with(out) an egg on her face.
I wonder why they do that... one can re-use the soil, one can re-use clones from the same strain's mother... but WHY in hell should somebody do that, reflower an already flowered plant again.... thats waste of effort to my eyes. Also I think a second flower not going to be as intense than the first.
Its like a woman who never had a child and a woman who has had children already... who is hotter in investing everything to get preggy because the clocks ticking and who already faces the wall already having had the bell ring?
One has the right hormones... the other no more! One is young... the other old.Wheres your best chances for healthy strong kids?
Right the younger, with the right hormones, who not had a child yet. She is ready. They other one is DONE! haha, you can try the other, but when it comes down to quality, she could face problem, and then you must care her whining claiming your soldiers are to weak and YOU are fault when it is not working out never the old ladies in their 50s with an empty box of eggs, how could think such.... Same for cannabis females...you want them barely legal for enyoing the best fruits. Anectote:
Paul and Emma have been couple for very long time. They had no children ever because thats what Paul didn't liked.
Now he has got a younger one and for a kid with her: Paul runs on a race, ... Emma is 48, single and stands there with(
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CheGueVapo
Well-Known Member
Grammatiknazis und Rechtsschreibrächer sind mir die Liebsten! Kleine Helden des Alltags die die Welt dringend braucht, wenn es bloß mehr Grammatiknazis gäbe, dann wären längst alle Probleme auf der Welt gelößt. Wirklich. Einfach jeden der sich weigert eine Autokorrektor einzuschalten einfach ne Cruisemissile rein ins Wohnzimmer schicken, ohne Diskussion! So muss das laufen... kost doch nix son kleines gelenktes Sprengköpfchen! Bezahlt wurden die doch schon! Aber erst wenn die abgeschossen werden muss man neue kaufen und produzieren... Angebot und Nachfrage. The show must go on! Immer her damit.... Kollateralschäden? Nur ein paar Kupftuchträger... die können nur "Vallah bilah, schwör bruder auf koran". Der CIA hat meine Position und Handynummer.... einfach triangulieren und DA HIN ... wird dann koordiniert aus Rammstein! Mindestens 10 Spastis auf einmal erledigt, die morgen ne Terrorzelle gründen könnten und Flieger entführen und so Späßchen! Unser Land ist voll von denen! Ich opfer mich gerne!
Mindestens 10 Spastis auf einmal erledigt, die morgen ne Terrorzelle gründen könnten und Flieger entführen und so Späßchen! Unser Land ist voll von denen! Ich opfer mich gerne!
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phrygian44
Well-Known Member
If you want to know how far you can push your plant for ripeness, as well as understand what that stage of ripeness actually means to you,
@CheGueVapo
there is no question that you are very intelligent, have a vast amount of both experimental and practical knowledge on this subject, provide us with a wealth of invaluable information (appreciated), as well as come up with some excellent and practical theories (such as converting excess heat to beneficial IR radiation), but sometimes your arrogance just gets waaay outta control.
If you are smart, then everyone will see that and respect you for it. But if you keep telling everyone how smart you are, and how dumb everyone else is, then no one's going to bother to listen to you, no matter how smart or right you are. .
and to try and get this thread back on track,
may i suggest that you read my post on how you can easily do your own evaluation, and establish your own reference system.
Toronto autumn 2021 - how are your plants doing?
YAY!!! I've checked-over the entire plant today with a 30X Jewelers Loupe, and i have two single amber trichomes. Ain't gonna be long, now, boys. lmao
www.rollitup.org
@CheGueVapo
there is no question that you are very intelligent, have a vast amount of both experimental and practical knowledge on this subject, provide us with a wealth of invaluable information (appreciated), as well as come up with some excellent and practical theories (such as converting excess heat to beneficial IR radiation), but sometimes your arrogance just gets waaay outta control.
If you are smart, then everyone will see that and respect you for it. But if you keep telling everyone how smart you are, and how dumb everyone else is, then no one's going to bother to listen to you, no matter how smart or right you are. .
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phrygian44
Well-Known Member
now that is a very interesting thought. I have no ideal what my strain is (grown from a handful of seeds given to me), but I'm really liking the type of buzz so would like to regrow it again, and I've waited way too long to Monster Crop it, but transplanting a good portion of the bottom part of the plant outta my yard (instead of chopping the whole thing) sounds extremely appealing, and quite easy to do.
anyone have any knowledge or success doing this?
Slartibart4242
Member
A very long time ago... I used to grow in a tiny cabinet that was roughly 24” wide 14” deep and only 32” tall. So I was limited to one plant that thought me how to train. It was different times and I only needed enough for me. Since I was limited to just one plant I would reveg it 3-4 times before I would try something new.
it’s very simple to do. Once you decide it’s time to cut down your flower, just cut at a node and leave 3-4 bottom nodes. I try to keep the canopy as even as possible at this point. So basically you just topped all your branches. Because of this you can really only do it a couple times before branches start getting too top heavy.
Say you top at the 5th node counting up for reveg. Next time you would have to cut at the 4th node or you would be splitting your branches again and now have four colas off that branch. So it’s something that you have to preplan your pruning for multiple grows if you plan on revegging again and again. But it’s really no different philosophy than maintaining a mother plant for cloning. Also, when you cut down your branches I wouldn’t pull the flowers off the branches I left for reveg.
so long as you didn’t seed the plant during flowering it didn’t get pregnant and produce baby seeds. So “next year” she typically really wants to get pregnant and can be a fiercer producer. However there was not lab testing at the time so I can’t provide lab testing results. But I would be willing to eventually do an experiment that compares the results for clones off a mother that one was the first run and the second would be the reveg results. I would grow a control of another set of clones when I reveg that way I can test for a control at the same time. And then repeat once again. So there would be 3 grow results:
clone set 1 vs clone set 1
clone set 2 vs clone set 1 reveg
clone set 3 vs clone set 2 reveg
it’s very simple to do. Once you decide it’s time to cut down your flower, just cut at a node and leave 3-4 bottom nodes. I try to keep the canopy as even as possible at this point. So basically you just topped all your branches. Because of this you can really only do it a couple times before branches start getting too top heavy.
Say you top at the 5th node counting up for reveg. Next time you would have to cut at the 4th node or you would be splitting your branches again and now have four colas off that branch. So it’s something that you have to preplan your pruning for multiple grows if you plan on revegging again and again. But it’s really no different philosophy than maintaining a mother plant for cloning. Also, when you cut down your branches I wouldn’t pull the flowers off the branches I left for reveg.
so long as you didn’t seed the plant during flowering it didn’t get pregnant and produce baby seeds. So “next year” she typically really wants to get pregnant and can be a fiercer producer. However there was not lab testing at the time so I can’t provide lab testing results. But I would be willing to eventually do an experiment that compares the results for clones off a mother that one was the first run and the second would be the reveg results. I would grow a control of another set of clones when I reveg that way I can test for a control at the same time. And then repeat once again. So there would be 3 grow results:
clone set 1 vs clone set 1
clone set 2 vs clone set 1 reveg
clone set 3 vs clone set 2 reveg
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phrygian44
Well-Known Member
Awesome; mny thnx.
I had no plans on doing any mothering, and therefore had no idea that i would like the strain this much and want to regrow it again, and when i did decide, it was in its final stages of heavy flowering.
Yeah, the plan is to then mother it from there onwards, so if this works, that would be great.
Thnx again.
phrygian44
Well-Known Member
Now that lab testing is becoming more common, i probably will to find out what i got.
Doing generation testing for quality is an excellent idea, but i don't have the patience or setup for it at the presenttime, and i plan on adding 3 killer strains for next year, which will also then have to be mothered.
If I had a farm (and didn't have to work) i would setup a proper greenhouse, then i would just love getting down to that level of control.
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CheGueVapo
Well-Known Member
I can tell you that the maroccan farmers buy their seeds from other farmers every two years that have higher located fields in the sun... if they dont do it their hash getting weaker and weaker season by season
If you believe a revegg going to have same quality than the first flowering, try that... you are not the first going down learning that road.
I dont think it is good or effective.
I just dont believe that you can keep up the quality, unless you have the lamp indoor that nobody has yet on the planet... the sun itself! And you can tweak it any aspect of spectrum and intensity... like the sun to immitate the right seasonal triggers. If you can immitate that with all the spectrum and high intensities... like in the higher regions of where it is home... then maybe you can success with that!
Theres people growing the same mother for multiple years.... they experience the same: The quality of the final product of the cuttings lowers.... its unavoidable, because the conditions dont require it to keep on doing that!
Thats basically because the indoor conditions are typically not even close to the suns-intensities in the places where cannabis comes from.... we actually cannot immitate that fully with artificial-lighting.
Thats why we have a lot of stuff to do and to find out! NIR, IR, near UVA, Violet-Deepblue.... who does know a shit? Nobody. But the Sun has higher intensities, is easy to cool, dont need wind, still low leaf temperatures, low conductance, need no co²... you know why? No, me neither! Its a miracle what shines down on earth
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CheGueVapo
Well-Known Member
Im a fan of Victor Schauberger... he said: "Just understand nature and copy it"
But then there is the sun, it's more than just PAR. The big rest is more energy than PAR, PAR is just a small part of the energy.... but the sun sends more than 2000µmol only PAR on a clear sommer day..... and im NOT talking about high-mountain- or equatorial-regions, but the northern hemisphere continents.... where cannabis grows poorly (comparatively)
WTF, while indoor 1000µmol only PAR are great and intense..... ???
Does anybody understand that? Really? Please enlighten me. So I can copy it... but Im tryin for 15 years now and it's tough, really tough.... because the understanding is just low. It's not about the light energy... it's more about the water flux and temperature than anything else!
But then there is the sun, it's more than just PAR. The big rest is more energy than PAR, PAR is just a small part of the energy.... but the sun sends more than 2000µmol only PAR on a clear sommer day..... and im NOT talking about high-mountain- or equatorial-regions, but the northern hemisphere continents.... where cannabis grows poorly (comparatively)
WTF, while indoor 1000µmol only PAR are great and intense..... ???
Does anybody understand that? Really? Please enlighten me. So I can copy it... but Im tryin for 15 years now and it's tough, really tough.... because the understanding is just low. It's not about the light energy... it's more about the water flux and temperature than anything else!
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phrygian44
Well-Known Member
Thnx, man. Yeah, i know. Reading all the marketing collateral from these grow lamps providers, they all come across like they think they know everything, and know exactly what they're talking about, and as you and i both know (being an engineer and hobby botanist and into physics), they aint coming anywhere close to imitating what the sun produces. (side note, and i hate these pocket energies when using LED's, thereby leaving gaping holes in the spectrum], but then lamps are so inefficient through heat waste, so what you're doing in building your own is the only way to go.
And as you also pointed out regarding where these plants originate from, the full sun is blazing down on them continually, where even I, (where i live up North and growing outdoors), do not even come close to the amount of sun that the plant is accustomed to. my only other option then is tenting, and i do not want to get into that at the moment, as i'm renting now, and don't want to created any havoc with the landlord. outside, he can't say much, as it's legal here in Kanada (note the German spelling.
), but inside, where there's a possibility of electrical/fire issues, plus the smell permeating the entire house and walls (which would therefor increase my cost with venting in order to deal with that), he would be pissed and can possibly evict me. It's just not worth the bother at the present.UVA is also interesting, as as you say it produces healing effects for the plant - good research <two thumbs up> - overlooked by the light manufacture experts, eh?
but as you notice from looking at the sun's spectrum, the amount of UVA intensity at that level is very small, and nowhere close to the intensity of the PAR levels, however, UVA sits at the higher end of the light frequency spectrum, which means there is more "total energy" available (think x- or gamma rays), so when normalized, from the plant's perspective, the low UVA intensity level may be just as significant. therefore, I suspect that the lamps output would have to be closely mirrored (or mimic'd) with the sun's level, in terms of net UVA energy that the plant is receiving. I don't think you can just buy a UVA lamp, and then blast the F out of the plant and expect not to do any damage, but i could be totally wrong here, as i have no experimental experience.
I envy you in what you're doing - Kudos! would love to be doing the same if i had the time, money and place to do this. Keep us posted.
Us Germans just love analyzing everything to death for maximum efficiency. lmao
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Boatguy
Well-Known Member
I feel stupid even getting involved in this thread but here goes.
I would harvest and reveg a plant if i felt it was a keeper. Foolishly didnt once, next time i wont make the same mistake.
CheGueVapo
Well-Known Member
Why? Thats a valid argue. You want to have that again, and thats the easiest way. Totally legit. But you cant do that long, keeping it the way it was, thats the point.... regarding "keeper", it might change. If you like it that much in first place, get some seeds again...
phrygian44
Well-Known Member
yes, it baffles me too that everyone thinks that buying one of dem new LED panels, at 1000-2000 umol, with a poor attempt at reproducing the sun entire spectrum, is the perfect option. the problem is is that using these lamps does produce great result, to the uninitiated. but then again, they don't know any better, as they've never compared how their same plant would grow at high-mountain- or equatorial-regions (as you say). if they did see the difference, they'd be blown away, and then say "what kind of piece-of-shit lamp system did i buy?". lolol