How far can "ripeness" be pushed?

[Thundercat]

Does cloning ruin cannabis strains over time?

Science says that clones are exact copies of their mother—so why do some strains degrade after years of cloning? Read on to find out why.

www.leafly.com

There you have it.... now whats your source of information?

That "source" you are choosing to use says exactly what I said.

Clones don't degrade unless they are impacted by outside elements, whether it be environmental, viral, or other biological pathogens.

 

[phrygian44]

Now if you really want to dive down the rabbit hole of lost knowledge, then I ask what is the correlation of Mach’s principle and binaural energy and how does it effect germination and vigor of plants?

We're invoking Mach's principle, now, are we?
(Hold on, I'm gonna have to light one for this conversation)

And, that's not a rabbit hole, that's a wormhole.

 

[phrygian44]

And what happened to my simple analysis of trichomes for judging harvest, post, a page back? Was it not esoteric enough for this group?
Do i need to invoke Lorenz equations in my posts to get any attention?

 

[Slartibart4242]

Haha I was being facetious in my retort. I mean technically yes Mach’s principle applies to wormholes but that’s assuming we agree upon what Mach was even trying to express.

However, some people play Mozart or Bach to their plants and don’t know why or if there is an effect. In short the answer is yes, providing you are using certain frequencies.

But if you are trying to “push” to the max, well why not add sound to the equation. And I mean for some reason there are many civilizations that used vibrational healing. But do you really need to build a pyramid just to make better weed? It’s probably a little excessive... but I’m that crazy person who thinks that it would still be fun to do.

In addition on the list of “stupid” things that I would like to try is using a prism to change the angle of the sun to induce a different spectrum of light in a greenhouse. I agree recreating an indoor light will never compete with the sun, so why haven’t we looked into ways of adjusting the sunlight to our particular needs?

but yes you can just look at trichomes and harvest at different times and then record your data and decide for yourself.

 

[phrygian44]

In addition on the list of “stupid” things that I would like to try is using a prism to change the angle of precisely the sun to induce a different spectrum of light in a greenhouse.

Whoa! That's a brilliant idea. You'd have to break down the different spectrums onto multiple different plants over a couple of months to see any effect that the different frequencies would have.
Your one and only problem would be getting the prisms to keep tracking the sun throughout the day, and precisely maintaining its angle to the sun to keep locked onto its designated colour frequency.

Either that or have one prism doing the tracking, and then moving all the test plants around in sync with their respective colour band as the light keeps shifting around the room.

Have fun with those algorithms. Lolol

 

[lusidghost]

And what happened to my simple analysis of trichomes for judging harvest, post, a page back? Was it not esoteric enough for this group?
Do i need to invoke Lorenz equations in my posts to get any attention?

I think you're just creeping people out with that profile picture.

 

[Boatguy]

And what happened to my simple analysis of trichomes for judging harvest, post, a page back? Was it not esoteric enough for this group?
Do i need to invoke Lorenz equations in my posts to get any attention?

The fact that you used both esoteric and lorenz in your reply shows how much you are overthinking gardening.
Grow em and pick em when they are done.

 

[phrygian44]

I think you're just creeping people out with that profile picture.

LMFAO!!!!
I was wondering about that.

But that's Andy Pipkin, from Little Britain fame. He's an adorable character.
Computer Say No, will vouch for me. Lolol

 

[DaFreak]

That "source" you are choosing to use says exactly what I said.

Clones don't degrade unless they are impacted by outside elements, whether it be environmental, viral, or other biological pathogens.

Interesting, they are suggesting that if I take my 3 year old MOB X ??? plant that has lost a step and transplant a clone into good soil I might be able to nurse it back. I heard from an old-timer that he thought sun could have the same effect. That would be cool for a hydro grower like me. I guess I should start some soil mothers instead of pro-mix and salts.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

Computer Say No, will vouch for me.

Let me check.

...

"Computer says no."

I'm sorry. Can't help you.

 

[lusidghost]

LMFAO!!!!
I was wondering about that.

But that's Andy Pipkin, from Little Britain fame. He's an adorable character.
Computer Say No, will vouch for me. Lolol

I was weirded out and had to do an image reversal, praying that it was a comedian or celebrity of some sort and not your actual picture. ha.

 

[ComputerSaysNo]

I was weirded out

If you watch Little Britain and are not weirded out, something is wrong with you. Highly recommended show.

 

[Thundercat]

Interesting, they are suggesting that if I take my 3 year old MOB X ??? plant that has lost a step and transplant a clone into good soil I might be able to nurse it back. I heard from an old-timer that he thought sun could have the same effect. That would be cool for a hydro grower like me. I guess I should start some soil mothers instead of pro-mix and salts.

I've read similar things about the sun "refreshing" damaged genetics, but I haven't had any personal experience with it. I've only ran plants outdoors the last 2 seasons, and both times were seed runs.

for 10ish years I kept my mothers in hydroton in 6x6 inch pots and fed with salts. I would cut clones every 2ish weeks and they always busted out gorgeous fresh new growth. I would replace them with a fresh healthy clone about every 6-9 months when they finally would get to big for the area I used. I ran multiple strains this way for years, some over 6 years with no degrading.

 

[DaFreak]

I’ve done it myself, but this one I abused, underwatered, mites, thripes, aphids etc. had too much going on in life and too many strains I was trying to keep for friends. 100% my fault.

 

[Slartibart4242]

So I it took me a while to find the spectrum list of my old light since it looks like they aren’t manufacturing grow lights anymore, but I used to use an advanced led diamond series XML light, and I could have sworn it had UV spectrum LEDs.

so when I finally found a report on it, it looks like it does have a couple 380nm UVA diodes. My question is how close to 280nm should I go to if I am trying to get a full spectrum UVA for flowering? For off the shelf solution I can only find the HLG UVA 30 and a gravita UVA strip, but both are in the 365-390nm range and 30 watts. Is there a benefit to adding a coupe 320nm diodes to the bar, since the graph you showed about natural sunlight had very minimal light in that spectrum?

 

[Slartibart4242]

Whoa! That's a brilliant idea. You'd have to break down the different spectrums onto multiple different plants over a couple of months to see any effect that the different frequencies would have.
Your one and only problem would be getting the prisms to keep tracking the sun throughout the day, and precisely maintaining its angle to the sun to keep locked onto its designated colour frequency.

Either that or have one prism doing the tracking, and then moving all the test plants around in sync with their respective colour band as the light keeps shifting around the room.

Have fun with those algorithms. Lolol

So my basic design is that you would have to have something more like a domed greenhouse. However, I would imagine you could embed the prism into the glass. It would have to be cut like a fresnel lens. But in reverse in that we aren’t making a “light saber” by focusing the sun. Its more of a theoretical concept in my mind that a mule around everyone in a while. But I have yet to apply any math to the concept. To be honest I haven’t played with prisms at different angles enough.

In my mind it seems like the greenhouse would need to be curved on the side facing south to mirror the curvature of earth. That way it tracks with the sun all day. But it would also need to be able to be shifted 47 degrees to match the change in the angle of the sun over the course of the year. So really the only thing that needs to be calculated is the size, shape, and angle of the prism required to shift the sun into a flowering state year round and a veg state year round. That way you can have to “greenhouses” shifted to be the perfect veg and flower sun powered outdoor grow rooms. but I would want to incorporate a geothermal heating/cooling system so that temperature can also be controlled year round. Kind of a continuation to the greenhouse video I posted earlier in this thread.

but also incorporate a rain catch off the glass by having a gutter system at the bottom and have the greenhouse be partially underground so that it can be gravity fed.

But again that’s my stupid plan to eventually maximize ripeness is to create a hybrid system between indoor and outdoor growing. That allows me to flower as long as I want and have independent rooms in the greenhouses so that I can have different temperatures as well.

 

[Grojaks]

as far as trichs go I recall when I first got into growing eons ago that 50% amber seemed to be the standard, I much prefer the 90% milky with some clear and amber mixed in.

Ever since my state went legal and dispensaries disappeared the weeds just bunk. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t buy it, but I see it. It’s over dried to increase THC levels (I think) but more importantly so it can be stored in a little plastic baggie for months.

When we had dispensaries the buds were stored in jars, humidity controlled and cured properly. You never got bud you could crumble in your hand, you got dank, sticky green that you had to grind up

Oh and I actually voted to not make it legal for the reasons above, mainly the gutting of mmj dispensaries.

 

[weedstoner420]

Well dang, this thread didn't turn out how I had hoped. Has anyone tried leaving a plant on 12/12 for 20+ weeks to see how far ripeness can actually be pushed...?

This might be the year I go for it, will report back in 5-6 months if it goes well.

 

[Dr. Death]

Time lapse photos would be cool, 1 pic a day from flip, although all you’d be getting is a visual representation of what the plant is doing, without taking samples at different times there would be no way of monitoring quality deterioration once you get past the premium point of ‘ripe’

my 2c anyhow and I know 2/3 of nothing really

 

[PJ Diaz]

I decided to "show ignored content" of this thread, and quickly remembered why I ignored it to begin with. That said, the arrogance in this thread is astounding!

That "source" you are choosing to use says exactly what I said.

Clones don't degrade unless they are impacted by outside elements, whether it be environmental, viral, or other biological pathogens.

The idea that mother plants decline over time, or that clones decline over time as they are grown out and re-cloned, is just old bro-science. I've kept mother plants alive for 8 years with no decline in quality, and I know a guy with a White Widow mommy from 1995 that is still going strong.

It's not bro science, and frankly it has to do more with genetic mutations than anything. It's proven science that identical human twins aren't really identical because of the many mutations which occur after the fertilized egg divides. Old science believed that the difference in twins had more to do with environmental impacts, and although it is true that environment does play a role, newer science has discovered that it is more attributed to the aforementioned mutations. It's really not much different in Cannabis clones vs humans, in that dna mutations do happen all the time. I personally have experienced it myself with a specific cut in the past.

Here are two scientific articles to support my assertion (not Leafly, derp):

Why plant 'clones' aren't identical

A new study of plants that are reproduced by 'cloning' has shown why cloned plants are not identical. Scientists have known for some time that 'clonal' (regenerant) organisms are not always identical. Now researchers believe they have found out why this is the case in plants: the genomes of...

www.sciencedaily.com

Accumulation of somatic mutations leads to genetic mosaicism in Cannabis

Cannabis is typically propagated using stem cuttings taken from mother plants to produce genetically uniform propagules. However, producers anecdotally report that clonal lines deteriorate over time and eventually produce clones with less vigour and lower cannabinoid levels than the original...

www.biorxiv.org

 

[Thundercat]

I decided to "show ignored content" of this thread, and quickly remembered why I ignored it to begin with. That said, the arrogance in this thread is astounding!



It's not bro science, and frankly it has to do more with genetic mutations than anything. It's proven science that identical human twins aren't really identical because of the many mutations which occur after the fertilized egg divides. Old science believed that the difference in twins had more to do with environmental impacts, and although it is true that environment does play a role, newer science has discovered that it is more attributed to the aforementioned mutations. It's really not much different in Cannabis clones vs humans, in that dna mutations do happen all the time. I personally have experienced it myself with a specific cut in the past.

Here are two scientific articles to support my assertion (not Leafly, derp):

Why plant 'clones' aren't identical

A new study of plants that are reproduced by 'cloning' has shown why cloned plants are not identical. Scientists have known for some time that 'clonal' (regenerant) organisms are not always identical. Now researchers believe they have found out why this is the case in plants: the genomes of...

www.sciencedaily.com

Accumulation of somatic mutations leads to genetic mosaicism in Cannabis

Cannabis is typically propagated using stem cuttings taken from mother plants to produce genetically uniform propagules. However, producers anecdotally report that clonal lines deteriorate over time and eventually produce clones with less vigour and lower cannabinoid levels than the original...

www.biorxiv.org

Go up and read my first comment on the subject a few posts before this one(on the previous page I guess). I specifically mentioned mutations as being a possibility that would cause change.

I read that link you posted about this in a different thread a week or so ago. It says they don’t know why mutations sometimes happen. That isn’t some big new breakthrough. I’ve said for years that mutations from genetic damage can cause plants to change.

The other link shows that mutations can happen.......it mentions it could be environmental and then “hypothesizes” that it results in degradation of clones. I’ve seen it happen when plants got damaged over time from poor health and care. Mutations and degradation can happen like I’ve said from the beginning.

What neither of those links show is any proof that a healthy plant that is well cared for will naturally automatically degrade through cloning.