Need advice on spider mites

[jonnynobody]

I've been battling spider mites for 6 months now going on my 2nd grow cycle in a perpetual setup. I'm getting my ass kicked so badly I'm close to considering pulling everything and starting over. What I can't figure out is what kind of mites these are and why they're so difficult to control. I inspect leaves constantly and eggs are clearly visible. I can't find a single mite to save my life. Even on a badly damaged leaf on some new growth zero mites detected with a 40x loupe. I have seen no webbing and almost no leaf stippling. New growth on several plants is coming out deformed with twisting and rounded leaf tips. They're zeroing in on new growth on 2 plants that may have to be pulled. At this point I'm rotating forbid, floramite, and avid every 3 days as a last ditch effort. I plan to give them 2 weeks on this regimen. If it solves the problem I'll get them into flower in the next 4 weeks and move on to organic products to finish the cycle. I hear about guys spraying avid one time and their mites are gone. I just did my first application of avid and floramite spread 3 days apart this past week. I'll monitor the leaves over the next several days to see if egg activity is slowing. Apparently I have the super mite that refuses to die and cannot be visibly seen under a 40x scope. I'm baffled.

Am I fighting a losing battle here? Should I just yank it all, sanitize, and start over? The day after any spray the plants perk up and look on the mend. 2 days later as more eggs hatch they look like they're going the other direction again. Anyone else ever deal with these super mites that can't be seen? I've been lowering night time temps to 65 in an effort to slow the egg hatching. Beyond this I'm out of ideas.

 

[Rurumo]

What sprays have you tried so far? They definitely work best if you actually dip the entire plant into the solution and agitate it. I eliminated my last issue with citric acid every other day for 10 days. If that didn't work, I was going to try predatory mites. Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with them, nasty little creatures. Another product that eradicated them for me a few years back was pyrethrins. It's probably due to having a perpetual grow-you really need to take everything out, dip, sanitize, dip, sanitize, etc...complete pain the ass, but doable. Good luck! Let us know how things go.

 

[myke]

Russet mites needs 100x magnification dont they?

 

[Cookie Rider]

When I had mites I used 60x to find them.
no pest strips are what finally got em gone.

 

[hotrodharley]

Consider using predator mites. They're meat eaters. After they eat the spider mites they die.

 

[jonnynobody]

What sprays have you tried so far? They definitely work best if you actually dip the entire plant into the solution and agitate it. I eliminated my last issue with citric acid every other day for 10 days. If that didn't work, I was going to try predatory mites. Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with them, nasty little creatures. Another product that eradicated them for me a few years back was pyrethrins. It's probably due to having a perpetual grow-you really need to take everything out, dip, sanitize, dip, sanitize, etc...complete pain the ass, but doable. Good luck! Let us know how things go.

I've been on the fence about ordering pyganic and I think you just sold me. I'll have to give citric acid another shot at 2 tsp/quart. Hate using the toxic shit more than needed. I dipped all my clones with avid 2 days ago. I'll continue every 3 days until they're gone. I'll agitate next time I dunk too. I've got some blue dream genetics I don't want to lose. I'm gonna test the citric again on one plant. If all goes well I'll start spraying it in rotation with the other products.

I appreciate the advice. I'll report back in 2 days to update on how the battle is going.

Russet mites needs 100x magnification dont they?

I know 40x ain't getting the job done that's for sure. I read russet mites are microscopic so I think you're on point. Time for a second scope..

When I had mites I used 60x to find them.
no pest strips are what finally got em gone.

Did you kill the ventilation overnight or just hang them in the room? I tried them 6 months ago when I first noticed the mites. Killed the ventilation at lights out and fumigated the nurseries. The strips nearly killed all my plants after 3 days of fumigating at lights out. Yellow ugly twisted growth coming out from all the new growth sites. Larger plants were less affected but those strips with no ventilation severely damaged my plants. Even had to throw a couple out. Took nearly 3 weeks for the surviving plants to pop out of it.

Consider using predator mites. They're meat eaters. After they eat the spider mites they die.

I'm going to introduce them on the next batch of clones I cut. God willing they'll take hold and eradicate the bad mites.

 

[hotrodharley]

I've been on the fence about ordering pyganic and I think you just sold me. I'll have to give citric acid another shot at 2 tsp/quart. Hate using the toxic shit more than needed. I dipped all my clones with avid 2 days ago. I'll continue every 3 days until they're gone. I'll agitate next time I dunk too. I've got some blue dream genetics I don't want to lose. I'm gonna test the citric again on one plant. If all goes well I'll start spraying it in rotation with the other products.

I appreciate the advice. I'll report back in 2 days to update on how the battle is going.


I know 40x ain't getting the job done that's for sure. I read russet mites are microscopic so I think you're on point. Time for a second scope..


Did you kill the ventilation overnight or just hang them in the room? I tried them 6 months ago when I first noticed the mites. Killed the ventilation at lights out and fumigated the nurseries. The strips nearly killed all my plants after 3 days of fumigating at lights out. Yellow ugly twisted growth coming out from all the new growth sites. Larger plants were less affected but those strips with no ventilation severely damaged my plants. Even had to throw a couple out. Took nearly 3 weeks for the surviving plants to pop out of it.


I'm going to introduce them on the next batch of clones I cut. God willing they'll take hold and eradicate the bad mites.

Release in batches. I've seen some offered in packages with 3 bottles. Same with sprays after the critters appear eradicated. Most poisons don't affect eggs.

 

[Cookie Rider]

I think I reduced venting but did vent.
Temp and humidity controls.
I don’t know if it was the mites or the strips that did more damage, but I did have to wait weeks before they were flip worthy.

I made a few changes after that outbreak,
Less plants but bigger,
Started a strict ipm routine.

 

[jonnynobody]

Started a strict ipm routine.

Good move. Solves problems before they start. I'm on the horse now moving forward. I'll spray every 3-5 days rotating 4 different products in veg then moving to organic products in flower whether I see a bug problem or not. I hope I make it into the grave before ever battling these things again. Onward and forward

 

[jonnynobody]

What sprays have you tried so far? They definitely work best if you actually dip the entire plant into the solution and agitate it. I eliminated my last issue with citric acid every other day for 10 days. If that didn't work, I was going to try predatory mites. Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with them, nasty little creatures. Another product that eradicated them for me a few years back was pyrethrins. It's probably due to having a perpetual grow-you really need to take everything out, dip, sanitize, dip, sanitize, etc...complete pain the ass, but doable. Good luck! Let us know how things go.

I just realized I didn't actually answer your question. What I've tried:
Forbid 4F - Rotating with floramite and avid every 3-5 days. This rotation began last week.
Floramite SC - Rotating with Forbid and avid every 3-5 days.
Avid - Rotating with floramite and forbid every 3-5 days.
Spinosad - I was using this every other day until I discovered it wasn't doing shit. Mites proliferated during this period of time.
Citric acid - I first applied this at 3tsp/quart to larger nursery plants about 3' tall. They drooped for a day then bounced back with no apparent damage. I'm going to give it another try on a plant I'm about to throw out due to severe mite damage. I'm isolating it in a tent by itself while I fuck it up with 2tsp/quart of citric acid every other day for a week. If it eradicates them I'll start the citric in rotation with my other IPM products.
Venerate cg - Not effective for intermediate to serious bug problems. It has no knockdown effect. Something I use with spinosad in flower because it's safe. Just not very effective.

I bought the venerate and regalia together for nearly $130. At this point I wish I hadn't. They just are not effective. 5% pyganic would have been a more sound investment. Live and learn. What can ya do?

 

[jonnynobody]

Pics of the damage. This is the worst and may be tossed in the next week. I'm running 2tsp citric acid every other day. If she starts spitting out good foliage I'll continue for another 2 weeks to make sure the little bastards are gone. Then I'll start running the citric on the rest of my plants. Fingers crossed. The damage below is from a maui waui. They laid eggs on the top of the leave. Never seen that shit before. Not glands. Little cream colored spherical eggs. Just wow man. Anywho I'll report back in 7 days with some pics and god willing the plant will be on the mend thriving again. If not the compost pile is getting another garden casualty. I've discovered the rounded leaf tips are the tell tale sign. They immediately attack every piece of new growth they can find. Leaves don't form properly with pointed tips. The really twisted stuff is very sad. I threw in a picture of a blue dream I have vegging in the flower room. She's thriving and never really lost a beat.