Example Top Dress Only Program?

kratos015

Well-Known Member
OK this is awesome and wildly making me wish I was using some 30gal pots. Your grow is my utopia of laziness. I thought I was wildly the laziest person here :P
I own the blumat already though, I got it so in the event of a flood it was limited, and my 10 gal resevoir wouldn't make toooo much of a mess.
And I'm in fabric pots.


thank you so much for this! Everyone was saying maybe it was doable but I still had no idea what to do :P I'm perfectly happy to not use the karanja, it's too hard to find for me.
How come crab meal instead of bone meal? and would it make sense to add epsom salts or oyster shell along the way?


So now that I have a plan does the kashi still help? I thought the plant kind of just extracted the stuff via roots and water, and the topdress didn't need to decompose. But as I can see with your setup you are leagues ahead of me.
Crab Meal is preferred over Bone Meal due to its lighter NPK and the fact that it is a source of chitinase, an enzyme that is quite effective as pest control. Bone Meal will work just fine, just be sure to use it sparingly. Potent stuff. You can still get chitin from Insect Frass, or better yet, homemade EWC.

Don't add OSF along the way, its pure Calcium Carbonate and it serves to buffer your pH. OSF should only be used when first mixing a new batch of soil. If you need Calcium, there are plenty of sources of it that won't ruin your pH; crab and bone meals, gypsum, egg shells, etc.

Epsom salts only work in foliar, even if it is dissolved in water, when used as a soil drench epsom salts are quite ineffective. Epsom salts in a foliar is where it has its uses, the plants leaves absorb the Magnesium and Sulfur much easier and effectively than the plant's roots can. Always good to have Epsom Salts around, just in case.

The only thing to keep in mind, is that you should be sure to spray the leaves again after applying the Epsom Salts. What happens is the salts eventually start to build up on your leaves, not good. Simply spraying the leaves off the next day with normal water should wash a bulk of the residue off, to ensure it never builds up on your leaves.



I use crab shell instead of bone meal because I have a big bag of it, and because it's a little more mild. Also crab meal has chitin, which is supposed to be cool. I think I would probably give the bone meal 3 weeks instead of two weeks to work before re-apply. That's a lot of phosphorus and you don't want it building up.

You could use Epsom salt anytime you were signs of magnesium deficiency. (Light, faded patches on your leaves between the veins.) It would also make sense to use the epsom salts in the last half of flower, after you stop using crab shell. That way you'd still get magnesium and some sulfur to help get real stank buds.

Oyster shell is cool too, it's got calcium and magnesium. But you've already got that stuff from crab shell or bone meal, if you use those.

Really, any combination of stuff is cool, just try not to load up on phosphorus or too much calcium all at once.
Just wanted to second this real quick. There are plenty of ways to construct a balanced and efficient soil. While some amendments have more benefits than others, they can all have their uses in building your perfect living soil.

That said, don't load up on P of Ca, be cautious.

Too much P in your soil will make it unusable for 3-5 years, you'll legit have to start over with new soil while you wait the 3-5 years. P lockout is way more common than P deficiency. One must ensure they don't have a lockout before applying more P. With how readily available in the soil most sources of P is, there is no harm in waiting on applying it until you confirm the issue is not lockout.

Too much Ca will lock out your Mg, K, and P, which obviously fucks our plants pretty hard. Especially in bloom. In my experience, people are rarely P deficient, just Ca locking it out.

I always recommend people omit the Gypsum from these recipes, as the Crab Meal/Bone Meal and Lime/OSF will provide plenty of Calcium for the plant. And unless you're using RO water, your water likely has Ca in it too. If for some reason your plants need more Ca, egg shells work great.
 
Last edited:

m4s73r

Well-Known Member
The only thing to keep in mind, is that you should be sure to spray the leaves again after applying the Epsom Salts. What happens is the salts eventually start to build up on your leaves, not good. Simply spraying the leaves off the next day with normal water should wash a bulk of the residue off, to ensure it never builds up on your leaves.
Wanted to add a side note on this point. Use fresh aloe on the second day wash.

Cut off a aloe leave, chop it into 2 inches pieces. Blend with as much water as you can. Strain through a 25 micron bag or fine flour sifter. add to sprayer. will make 1-5 gallons of spray. Then spray them girls down. Fresh aloe is wonderful for the plants and after getting hit with the epson salt the aloe will act as a whetting agent for the water reducing its surface tension. Doing that will allow the water to more thoroughly wash the leaves. It will also allow you to do this with this lights on as the water wont bead on your leaves, causing burn spots.

I'm a big believer in aloe as companion plant for cannabis and organic gardening. You can pick up amazing aloe plants at big box stores for next to nothing.
 

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Wanted to add a side note on this point. Use fresh aloe on the second day wash.

Cut off a aloe leave, chop it into 2 inches pieces. Blend with as much water as you can. Strain through a 25 micron bag or fine flour sifter. add to sprayer. will make 1-5 gallons of spray. Then spray them girls down. Fresh aloe is wonderful for the plants and after getting hit with the epson salt the aloe will act as a whetting agent for the water reducing its surface tension. Doing that will allow the water to more thoroughly wash the leaves. It will also allow you to do this with this lights on as the water wont bead on your leaves, causing burn spots.

I'm a big believer in aloe as companion plant for cannabis and organic gardening. You can pick up amazing aloe plants at big box stores for next to nothing.
Have a shitload of aloe all over my yard out here, and have used the stuff for years. Its amazing. They require very little maintenance and it makes the best cloning gel ever. Even if you don't grow the plant, a $5 aloe plant will still provide loads of cloning gel and/or foliar spray. Good stuff.
 

m4s73r

Well-Known Member
Have a shitload of aloe all over my yard out here, and have used the stuff for years. Its amazing. They require very little maintenance and it makes the best cloning gel ever. Even if you don't grow the plant, a $5 aloe plant will still provide loads of cloning gel and/or foliar spray. Good stuff.
WHAT!?!?!?! I was expecting a full comprehensive analysis on all the reasons to use aloe. LOL I kid Kratos.
Neither one of us even mentioned how good it is as a simple plant food. Dont have to even strain it. blend up 3 or 4 leaves with water and drench the root zones.
 

harleyhawg666

Well-Known Member
Hello sure thing image attached :)
As a whole, my leaves turn yellow and falloff wayyyy too fast, plus any remaining leaves are kindof yellow (this is ~2 weeks from harvest, I lollipopped the plant at one point...then the leaves kept falling off and there aren't many leaves left). The image attached is likely color accurate as you can see some green leaves in the background.

I had to do a fair number of vinigar+water spritzes for WPM so I'm not sure if some of the burn tips are from that or not.

I'm happy to modify someone's routine as needed but I can't find a topdress only plan as a baseline.
"I had to do a fair number of vinegar + water spritzes for WPM so I an not sure......"

What is WPM? I see this a lot on these forums, people abbreviate and I search through entire threads trying to find out what they are talking about. Is it a sign of laziness that all of these people on these forums abbreviate things so much? I also notice they show photos of plants and say things like, "here is my auto". Why not tell what kind of plant it is? It only takes a few seconds to type. It drives me crazy when people abbreviate, it is not helping the community at all.
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
"I had to do a fair number of vinegar + water spritzes for WPM so I an not sure......"

What is WPM? I see this a lot on these forums, people abbreviate and I search through entire threads trying to find out what they are talking about. Is it a sign of laziness that all of these people on these forums abbreviate things so much? I also notice they show photos of plants and say things like, "here is my auto". Why not tell what kind of plant it is? It only takes a few seconds to type. It drives me crazy when people abbreviate, it is not helping the community at all.
LOL
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Intelligent response!
I couldn't help it. We abbreviate because it's easier yes. Here's a start for you.

WPM = White Powdery Mildew
OSF = Oyster Shell Flour
EWC = Earth Worm Castings
ISO = Isopropyl Alcohol
THC = Tetrahydrocannabinol
CBD = Cannabidiol
CBN = Cannabinol
 

harleyhawg666

Well-Known Member
I couldn't help it. We abbreviate because it's easier yes. Here's a start for you.

WPM = White Powdery Mildew
OSF = Oyster Shell Flour
EWC = Earth Worm Castings
ISO = Isopropyl Alcohol
THC = Tetrahydrocannabinol
CBD = Cannabidiol
CBN = Cannabinol
Hey! Thanks for that! I know a lot of those, I had seen powdery mildew before as "PM", it is the "W" that threw me off for "White". Thanks so much for clearing that up, didn't want to seem grouchy, just woke up and trying to figure some stuff out. Thanks for everyone on here, I learn a lot of cool stuff from you people. Good community, thank you!
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Hey! Thanks for that! I know a lot of those, I had seen powdery mildew before as "PM", it is the "W" that threw me off for "White". Thanks so much for clearing that up, didn't want to seem grouchy, just woke up and trying to figure some stuff out. Thanks for everyone on here, I learn a lot of cool stuff from you people. Good community, thank you!
Ya, just ask. Most of us try to help. But I can't help be a smartass though sometimes.
 

Livingblacksoil

Well-Known Member
 

chico1st

Active Member
OK my next round following this plan still has ended with some grumpy plants.
Plan:
  • Week A: top dress EWC
  • Week B: top dress 1tbsp kelp+alfalfa+(crabmeal when in flower)
  • 5 Gallon Pot
I switched to flower a week ago after 2 months in veg trying to fill out a SCROG
The plant seems generally healthy but:
  • some of the leaves are a purpleish
  • some are pale yellow with bleaches spots
  • there are brown spots on many of the leaves.
I don't think they are over/under watered as I ahve a blumat emitting "just past dry" reading on my hygrometer,
I don't see signs of light burn
So now I'm confused :(
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
OK my next round following this plan still has ended with some grumpy plants.
Plan:
  • Week A: top dress EWC
  • Week B: top dress 1tbsp kelp+alfalfa+(crabmeal when in flower)
  • 5 Gallon Pot
I switched to flower a week ago after 2 months in veg trying to fill out a SCROG
The plant seems generally healthy but:
  • some of the leaves are a purpleish
  • some are pale yellow with bleaches spots
  • there are brown spots on many of the leaves.
I don't think they are over/under watered as I ahve a blumat emitting "just past dry" reading on my hygrometer,
I don't see signs of light burn
So now I'm confused :(
5 gallons of soil is your problem. Try doing 15-30 gallons. Your plants will be happier, so will you.

"I don't think they are over/under watered" - thinking is not knowing. You need to know how much water they are getting, and when. It matters.
 

MistaRasta

Well-Known Member
Hello!
I grow organic and on my last grow tried to go top dress only (no teas) but my plants weren't very happy. (for reference I start with a subcoolesque soil recipe from buildasoil)
What exactly is in your “subcoolesque soil recipe”?

If you’re following any type of recipe from build a soil such as coots mix or anything of the sort I would advise not top dressing.

These mixes are designed to carry a plant all the way from seed/clone to a fully matured flowering plant without the addition of any npk fertilizers.

Ive been growing in the coot mix for around 9 years now and nothing has changed. Occasionally I’ll hit the pots with a little fulvic acid and malted barley. Other than that it’s water only
 

Lenin1917

Well-Known Member
I mainly just top dress. I haven't made a tea in a couple years. I do use Neptune's Harvest occasionally. I just push my rice hull layer to one side top dress, then do the same to the other side of the pot.

There's lots of mixes that make things easier. Dr. Earth, Build a Soil, etc. if you decide to order through BAS let me know and I can get you $5 off your first order.

Basically what I do, topdress dr earth occasionally use a tea. I usually do small pots too 1 or 3 gallon, using 5s for the first time now and I’m bored not having to water them all the time. You get em going good in gal or a bigger plant in 3gals and you end up having to water 2-3 times a day come mid flower.
 
Last edited:

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
A 5gal pot with an

Basically what I do, topdress dr earth occasionally use a tea. I usually do small pots too 1 or 3 gallon, using 5s for the first time now and I’m bored not having to water them all the time. You get em going good in gal or a bigger plant in 3gals and you end up having to water 2-3 times a day come mid flower.
The bigger pot the better with organics. Either way, you need to keep up with top dressing to feed the soil. With organics and dry amendments you don't want to let it dry out either. You can do it in smaller pots, but it's just a little harder.

Just top dressed an hour ago with a mix I just made.

Bat guano 7-3-1
Neem 6-1-2
Chicken shit 4-4-3
Basalt
Kashi 3-3-2

A little langbeinite, and I think that's it, but I didn't take notes this time. I am gonna try to feed my soil more. I was lazy last time and it showed. I also have to remember nitrogen off gasses.

My avatar is deceiving because I'm no master, :lol:
 
Last edited:

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Just got a 25# bag of NutriGrow Chicken Manure today from BAS. Gonna have to throw it in a 5 gal bucket tonight. My stoned ass was like WTF is this box, lol.
 

chico1st

Active Member
What exactly is in your “subcoolesque soil recipe”?

If you’re following any type of recipe from build a soil such as coots mix or anything of the sort I would advise not top dressing.

These mixes are designed to carry a plant all the way from seed/clone to a fully matured flowering plant without the addition of any npk fertilizers.

Ive been growing in the coot mix for around 9 years now and nothing has changed. Occasionally I’ll hit the pots with a little fulvic acid and malted barley. Other than that it’s water only
It was recipe #1 from here: https://buildasoil.com/blogs/news/17627464-build-a-soil-from-scratch-in-2-simple-steps

I try to grow scrog and make bigger plants so i think I need to top dress a bit. Everyone I meet who just uses water tends to grow SOG or autos or something. I let this one veg for 2 months to get nice and big which I think means I need extra nutes.


5 gallons of soil is your problem. Try doing 15-30 gallons. Your plants will be happier, so will you.

"I don't think they are over/under watered" - thinking is not knowing. You need to know how much water they are getting, and when. It matters.
so I have a bluemat so I know they are ok. I'm just not sure how to quantify it. :)

The bigger pot the better with organics. Either way, you need to keep up with top dressing to feed the soil. With organics and dry amendments you don't want to let it dry out either. You can do it in smaller pots, but it's just a little harder.

Just top dressed an hour ago with a mix I just made.

Bat guano 7-3-1
Neem 6-1-2
Chicken shit 4-4-3
Basalt
Kashi 3-3-2

A little langbeinite, and I think that's it, but I didn't take notes this time. I am gonna try to feed my soil more. I was lazy last time and it showed. I also have to remember nitrogen off gasses.

My avatar is deceiving because I'm no master, :lol:
so if my leaves are yellowing like in the picture and getting purple tips, does that mean I should just keep feeding more? I thought i was feeding a lot already but still my plants never come out happy.
 

ComfortCreator

Well-Known Member
I have grown in supersoil I create since the beginning. As mentioned, 5 gal is an issue.

You should transplant to a 10gal a few weeks before flip. BUT dont fill up the full 10. Fill up maybe 7, and topdress as needed with more cooked supersoil.

The benefit of this is the plants are 100% used to that soil and work with it without any issues.

I can and have topdressed other amendments, worm castings, and organic ferts, but imo the best and easiest is the same soil. Those other things to me are only if a deficiency pops up.
 
Top