Any thoughts on using Permethrin in veg?

Rurumo

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
Johnny, check out one of the powdered yucca extracts with at least 60% saponins (I'm using GS plant foods right now). For one liter of water I add 5 ml neem oil, 1 ml silica, and about 1/4 teaspoon of the yucca and it emulsifies nicely and goes on the leaves smooth with no visible drops. Yucca is also a very good anti-fungal treatment, used in Europe against apple scab. I spray my plants with this weekly until flower. If you get the yucca, try adding it to your nutrient solution too, it goes really well with coco dtw.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Rurumo said:
Johnny, check out one of the powdered yucca extracts with at least 60% saponins (I'm using GS plant foods right now). For one liter of water I add 5 ml neem oil, 1 ml silica, and about 1/4 teaspoon of the yucca and it emulsifies nicely and goes on the leaves smooth with no visible drops. Yucca is also a very good anti-fungal treatment, used in Europe against apple scab. I spray my plants with this weekly until flower. If you get the yucca, try adding it to your nutrient solution too, it goes really well with coco dtw.
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I appreciate the recipe. I've got the yucca and neem on hand. Silica powder is cheap. I'll order some and give it a try. Neem seems to be very effective. I'm looking forward to trying out the recipe you posted. Everyone but me seems to have great luck with it so I really want to get it working for me. I'll come back and post a followup after I make my first mix. Thanks again for the help ;)

Just ordered the permethrin. I'll at least be able to get 2 applications out of it before I flower. God willing I'll have the neem working by then so I can use it until week 3 or so. It seems much more effective than either venerate or spinosad because it suppresses eggs, larvae, and adults. I can switch to venerate and spinosad from there.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
Thats on the plant surface, which is not the same as
metabolizes out of the plant tissue
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Maybe I should have used the word "off" instead of "out?" If you were to spray this in week 5 of flower you may very well have permethrin in your final product due to the long half life of the chemical on a plant's tissue (i.e. leaves and flower). Whether it's systemic (which it is not) is kind of a moot point. The chemical remains on the plant tissue for a considerable amount of time due to it's long half-life after application rendering that plant tissue it was sprayed on contaminated until the permethrin completely breaks down. Whether the contamination is inside the plant tissue or on the surface of the plant tissue at harvest time the effect is one in the same. You get contaminated flower that shouldn't be smoked by anyone. Does arguing systemic / surface contamination change the result?
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
Maybe I should have used the word "off" instead of "out?" If you were to spray this in week 5 of flower you may very well have permethrin in your final product due to the long half life of the chemical on a plant's tissue (i.e. leaves and flower). Whether it's systemic (which it is not) is kind of a moot point. The chemical remains on the plant tissue for a considerable amount of time due to it's long half-life after application rendering that plant tissue it was sprayed on contaminated until the permethrin completely breaks down. Whether the contamination is inside the plant tissue or on the surface of the plant tissue at harvest time the effect is one in the same. You get contaminated flower that shouldn't be smoked by anyone. Does arguing systemic / surface contamination change the result?
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Maybe I should have used the word "off" instead of "out?"
yes, sorry that was all i had to do, correct that...these "can" be dangerous chemicals and so i wanted to get you flying straight on the terminology, and so that others coming up behind us reading this have the right info. That's all, i didnt mean to sidetrack ur thread.

Whether it's systemic (which it is not) is kind of a moot point.
nope, butim not gonna spend the time today to tell you why.

Whether the contamination is inside the plant tissue or on the surface of the plant tissue at harvest time the effect is one in the same.
nope, see above

Does arguing systemic / surface contamination change the result?
no, and honestly arguing with people that don't know enough on a topic but want to sound like they do is just so mind numbingly asinine i don't know why i do it. Maybe it's because i don't want kids poisoning their family and friends by accident cuz they read some other dipshit post from johnnynobody said that was so far off scientific basis they did it anyway.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
Maybe I should have used the word "off" instead of "out?"
yes, sorry that was all i had to do, correct that...these "can" be dangerous chemicals and so i wanted to get you flying straight on the terminology, and so that others coming up behind us reading this have the right info. That's all, i didnt mean to sidetrack ur thread.

Whether it's systemic (which it is not) is kind of a moot point.
nope, butim not gonna spend the time today to tell you why.

Whether the contamination is inside the plant tissue or on the surface of the plant tissue at harvest time the effect is one in the same.
nope, see above

Does arguing systemic / surface contamination change the result?
no, and honestly arguing with people that don't know enough on a topic but want to sound like they do is just so mind numbingly asinine i don't know why i do it. Maybe it's because i don't want kids poisoning their family and friends by accident cuz they read some other dipshit post from johnnynobody said that was so far off scientific basis they did it anyway.
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You're the best!
 
jimihendrix1

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
Consider this.

If permethrin is sprayed on the plants, the permethrin will also have contact with the soil, because theres no way its not going to rip onto the soil. The half life of permethrin in soil is 120 days, and in some cases can be detected for up to a year.
Its inevitable if the plants are sprayed, its going to also drip into the soil from the dripping water. Theres no way around that, unless you dip them in water, and then they dont have any excess going into the soil, after they are put upright again.
 
CatHedral

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
jimihendrix1 said:
Consider this.

If permethrin is sprayed on the plants, the permethrin will also have contact with the soil, because theres no way its not going to rip onto the soil. The half life of permethrin in soil is 120 days, and in some cases can be detected for up to a year.
Its inevitable if the plants are sprayed, its going to also drip into the soil from the dripping water. Theres no way around that, unless you dip them in water, and then they dont have any excess going into the soil, after they are put upright again.
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Permethrin is poorly absorbed by roots. This makes it an honest choice for root pests like thrips. Bud is still clean.
 
jimihendrix1

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
If permethrin is applied to plants, it may stay on the leaves for between 1 and 3 weeks. Scientists applied permethrin to soil and then planted sugar beets, wheat, lettuce and cotton in the soil. Scientists found trace amounts of the permethrin residue in the edible parts of the plants at 30 and 120 days after planting. Trace amounts of permethrin have been found in foods including bananas, collard greens, squash and watermelon.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
Can I reduce the citric to 1tsp/quart with the sesame oil? I had problems with even 2tsp/quart burning my new growth. I tried twice with the same results. It's strange because when you first recommended this months ago I applied at 3tsp/quart on large vegging plants. The plants drooped a bit the next day but popped right out of it on the 2nd. Do you spray before lights out? I always reduce my lighting to the bare minimum after spraying anything, but I'm wondering if even that little amount of light is causing the problem. I really would like this to work because I'm running out of options here. As I enter flower in the next few days I've got spinosad and venerate on hand and I'd love to add the citric/sesame mix to the IPM rotation. I just have to make it work so I'm not damaging my plants. I'm waiting to drop the $230 on Azagaurd (concentrated Azidirachtin) because I have always had problems using neem oil. I can't ever get it to emulsify. The Azagaurd gets me the active ingredient in neem oil without monkeying around with emulsifying and I can use it up to harvest day. $230 is a nice chunk of change though and I can't spend that right now. Your advice is always much appreciated. I'll take all the tips I can get to make this work. I'll be completely forthcoming here - even the toxic pesticides I've been rotating are not solving the problem. I'm at a loss for words at this point. I started all new from seed and I didn't take any clones of the infected plants. Whatever kind of mite I have is the worst most unholy piece of shit pest I have ever encountered in my life.
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I never spray with lights on and outside I always spray in the evening. Heat and light can cause phytotoxicity when applying some substances to the leaves of plants. I wouldn't spray anything with any artificial light on.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
thumper60 said:
out door use on food crops exposed to sun an rain is one thing. Spraying plants indoor is a whole differnt beast! unless you smoke it all by your self other than that you SUCK!
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I'm in veg not flower. Once the plants go into flower I'll be spraying every other day rotating venerate and spinosad for the duration of the 70 day flower cycle. That's about 35 hose downs with copious amounts of water before the plants are harvested. They'll also be under fairly intense LED lighting for those 70 days. How would putting the plants outside create a safer environment for spraying permethrin? I appreciate any info I can find on this stuff.

Would you recommend pyganic that uses pyrethrin instead?
 
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J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
I never spray with lights on and outside I always spray in the evening. Heat and light can cause phytotoxicity when applying some substances to the leaves of plants. I wouldn't spray anything with any artificial light on.
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I'm pretty sure that's my problem. I'm not giving up on the citric. I'll spray 1 plant down tonight at 2tsp/qt at lights out that I can afford to use as a test plant. My wife will be very happy to see me go into the grow room at midnight. I'm blaming you :)

I've seen bad phytotoxicity in the past from certain products due to spraying in full light. Apparently I don't learn my lesson the first time around. I really hope I see a happy plant in the morning. If it works I'll run citric every other day through the paint sprayer. I'll post a before and after pic in the am. I really gotta change my lights out time tomorrow. Midnight spraying is no bueno for me.
 
go go kid

go go kid

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
water to waste hydro :(
Neem seems to be the real go to product. I just can't get the stuff to emulsify and I'm applying via airless paint sprayer. I really don't have a way to keep the solution agitated while I apply. I kinda wish I hadn't wasted all the money I did on these toxic pesticides that aren't working. Could have had a bottle of azagaurd already. It's concentrated azadirachtin which is the active ingredient in neem. Pricey though. I refuse to pay GH their blood money for azamax. Horridly overpriced.
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apologies, the carbonated water was mebt for another thread.
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thumper60

thumper60

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
I'm in veg not flower. Once the plants go into flower I'll be spraying every other day rotating venerate and spinosad for the duration of the 70 day flower cycle. That's about 35 hose downs with copious amounts of water before the plants are harvested. They'll also be under fairly intense LED lighting for those 70 days. How would putting the plants outside create a safer environment for spraying permethrin? I appreciate any info I can find on this stuff.

Would you recommend pyganic that uses pyrethrin instead?
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What the hell you trying to kill with this heavy duty stuff get your plants clean an pest free in veg dont spray anything in flower.
 
Southernontariogrower

Southernontariogrower

Well-Known Member
Diamataceous earth can be diluted with a bit of dawn dishsoap and sprayed. After dried will kill all bugs coated or trying to eat your plants, added silica also. And the death is becoming of them bastard spidermites.
 
its.always.420

its.always.420

Well-Known Member
Cypermethrin or Bifenthrin (both synthetic permethrins)(DemonMAX, BifinIT, etc.) I use in EMPTY rooms ONLY as a preventative. Anything crossing the pesticide residue for 90+ days dies.

Pyrethrum such as TakeDown or Dr Doom for plants/media.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Canceled the permethrin order. I'm getting pyganic instead. It's a much safer product and breaks down rapidly. Permethrin just takes too long to break down from everything I've read. Citric acid at 2tsp/qt fried my test plant pretty good. I've seen people have success with spraying wettable sulfur and it's super cheap. An outdoor gardener said the sulfur works great and doesn't harm the plants. It's cheap enough it won't hurt if it doesn't work.
 
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