"Jesus Certainly Existed" Three Reasons To Be Skeptical

Johiem

Well-Known Member
My question is, if he, Jesus, was divine why did they have to vote on it 300 years after his supposed crucifixion? Why does the Bible have so many re-witres? And why in the name of any higher power do I have to have some other human defend me or speak on my behalf for forgiveness, from a being whose idea of penance is a lake of fire?
 

Johiem

Well-Known Member
Seems to me Christians, as a whole, are only good people out of fear. Be good or go to Hell. Oops you were a little envious about something someone did better than you, BURN EM! You ate more than you needed (every American not struggling to eat) BURN EM! You strive to make yourself look good to yourself, BURN EM!
Thats not even half of what will get you sent to Hell. 99% of American Christians are already DAMNED before they leave the house. But He's a forgiving "God" just tell Him you're sorry, OOPS! CAN'T DO THAT I HAVE TO TELL A PRIEST TO TELL HIM and it all goes away. The bible, #1 seller in historical fantasy.
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
The money changers "Bankers".
That was not part of the choices. But if you mean Jews then why would they kill someone for looking human? Why would they be against God's salvitic gift? Your logic does not follow.

I clarified the questions, and doubled the translations if you want to give it another try.

In the context of what Paul wrote:

1) Who would most likely kill Jesus just for looking like, and believed to be just a human as related in the Kenosis Hymnal in Philippians?

Philippians 2:7-8

NRSV

"but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death — even death on a cross."

YLT

"but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,"

A) Romans B) Jews C) Satan

2) Who would most likely not kill Jesus if they were made known that killing him would fulfill God's preordained secret plan for mankinds salvation as per God's will? Note: Rulers of this Age (Principality Powers)= Earth realm, or spiritual.


1 Corinthians 2:6-8

NRSV

"Yet among the mature we do speak wisdom, though it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to perish. But we speak God's wisdom, secret and hidden, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

YLT

"And wisdom we speak among the perfect, and wisdom not of this age, nor of the rulers of this age -- of those becoming useless, but we speak the hidden wisdom of God in a secret, that God foreordained before the ages to our glory, which no one of the rulers of this age did know, for if they had known, the Lord of the glory they would not have crucified;"


A) Romans B) Jews C) Satan
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
I have no doubt the man existed, and was a prophet of healing, well being and governance which went on to shape the western world, but he obviously didn't come from a magic man in the sky.
Maybe you would be interested in answering the two questions I clarified in post #24?
 

mudballs

Well-Known Member
How about you. Can you answer two simple multiple choice questions in context of Paul the Apostle that logically follows?

1) Who would most likely kill Jesus just for looking like, and believed to be just a human (Phili. 2:7 "but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form,")?

A) Romans B) Jews C) Satan

2) Who would most likely not kill Jesus if they knew that killing him would fulfill God's secret plan for mankinds salvation as per God's will (1 Cor. 2:6-8 "Yet among the mature we do speak wisdom, though it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to perish. But we speak God's wisdom, secret and hidden, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.")?

A) Romans B) Jews C) Satan
Why would i entertain your query, hmm? Does some nagging itch go unanswered in your soul? Yeah drown in ur own misery champ i ain't helping calm your seas.
Even if i answered, you would only find some angle in my post to counter with and continue spouting your one sided diatribe
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
Why would i entertain your query, hmm? Does some nagging itch go unanswered in your soul? Yeah drown in ur own misery champ i ain't helping calm your seas.
Even if i answered, you would only find some angle in my post to counter with and continue spouting your one sided diatribe
This is what you said in a previous post "There was a dude named jesus, he was a kind, wise and passionate man that was wronged by his fellow man.". You don't want to be challenged that's fine with me, but you should run lip in safer waters.
 

mudballs

Well-Known Member
This is what you said in a previous post "There was a dude named jesus, he was a kind, wise and passionate man that was wronged by his fellow man.". You don't want to be challenged that's fine with me, but you should run lip in safer waters.
ill run lip wherever and when ever i see fit and their ain't a god damned thing you can do about it. Would you like me to stay here and display this power i have that you can not affect?
 

mudballs

Well-Known Member
The power of pseudointellectualism? Press on.
you think yourself wise...
i copied your first two posts, went here https://wordcounter.net/ and pasted it to count the characters
3,008 words 17,541 characters
after finding your core argument...i popped in and killed your entire foundation with a single, one line quip from the very same source you used. The Bible.
if you think for one instant that i feel slighted by your pseudo intellectualism jab, ur wrong... if you are trying to say you are pursuing intellectualism and i am not....well you should go type another 3008 word essay for me to read and trash with another single line.
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
you think yourself wise...
i copied your first two posts, went here https://wordcounter.net/ and pasted it to count the characters
3,008 words 17,541 characters
after finding your core argument...i popped in and killed your entire foundation with a single, one line quip from the very same source you used. The Bible.
if you think for one instant that i feel slighted by your pseudo intellectualism jab, ur wrong... if you are trying to say you are pursuing intellectualism and i am not....well you should go type another 3008 word essay for me to read and trash with another single line.
Your bluff and bluster is very boring.
 

dank'd

Well-Known Member
holy text writers in general were on some shvt back then. one day these will all be found in the fiction sections of the libraries on the spaceships we will be living on

this will be in the future some 500 years after humans unanimously are forced to allow updating of all of these texts, and maybe a few hundred years after that the whole thing goes into the free domain as a relic of culture(in the spaceship)
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
holy text writers in general were on some shvt back then. one day these will all be found in the fiction sections of the libraries on the spaceships we will be living on

this will be in the future some 500 years after humans unanimously are forced to allow updating of all of these texts, and maybe a few hundred years after that the whole thing goes into the free domain as a relic of culture(in the spaceship)
Maybe the earth is a giant spaceship and we just don't know it ?

On second thought, maybe the earth is a cosmic zoo and we are the exhibits and Jesus was sent down to clean our cages or provide nourishment for our souls and like wild animals that can never be trusted humanity ate Jesus arm off when he was filling the water trough?
 

Nixs

Well-Known Member
That was not part of the choices. But if you mean Jews then why would they kill someone for looking human? Why would they be against God's salvitic gift? Your logic does not follow.
I wouldn't call them Jews, they were not following the teachings of God, but Gold. Jesus was a threat to that sector of "Jews" so they had to get rid of him, the romans were the tool.

Yes you were right, I misunderstood your questions.
 

TugthePup

Well-Known Member
Maybe the earth is a giant spaceship and we just don't know it ?

On second thought, maybe the earth is a cosmic zoo and we are the exhibits and Jesus was sent down to clean our cages or provide nourishment for our souls and like wild animals that can never be trusted humanity ate Jesus arm off when he was filling the water trough?
Or earth is the Ark.
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't call them Jews, they were not following the teachings of God, but Gold. Jesus was a threat to that sector of "Jews" so they had to get rid of him, the romans were the tool.

Yes you were right, I misunderstood your questions.
Even the money changers do not make sense in context of being killed for looking like a human, and would not be killed if they knew it was a gift for mankind of eternal life.

Doesn't it make sense that the answer is Satan without pulling in later Gospel narratives?
 

Dalek Supreme

Well-Known Member
Or earth is the Ark.
Why is the sky blue? The Old Testament infers the answer 1,000s of years before modern science. Praise the Lord!

Genesis (NRSV)

1:6a "And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters,"

1:6b "let it separate the waters from the waters."

1:7 "So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so."

1:14a "And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky"

7:11d "...and the windows of the heavens were opened."

8:2bc "the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,"

Psalm 148:4-6 "Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens! Let them praise the name of the LORD, for he commanded and they were created. He established them forever and ever; he fixed their bounds, which cannot be passed."

Proverbs 8:28-29 "when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth,"

Job 22:12, :14c “Is not God high in the heavens? See the highest stars, how lofty they are!" "...and he walks on the dome of heaven.’"

Job 37:18 "Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?"

Isa. 24:18b "For the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble."

"Finally, it is worth pointing out that the world picture of the Jewish people, as reconstructed from various passages in the Bible, was essentially the same as that of the Egyptians and the Babylonians. ...The flat, disc-shaped Earth is surrounded by a sea; beneath the Earth, there are wells and fountains connected with the upper part of the Earth as well as with the great deep, called Tehom. The Earth rests on pillars, and above it is the sky or firmament. Waters are to be found not only on the Earth or beneath it, but also above the firmament."

Helge S. Kragh, Conception of Cosmos, pp. 10

So the sky is blue because a massive molten glass dome holds up an ocean. Also the reason why when looking over the ocean the dark blue does not mix with the light blue all due to an unpassable barrier. Who knew but the Lord.

Even though the Quran mentions terrestrial salt and fresh water seas, there's references though vague are reminiscent of the OT's cosmology (perhaps a vestige of the OT?).

Quran (Pickthal/The Clear Quran)

(PICKT) 21.032 "And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents."

(TCQ) 21.32 "And We have made the sky a well-protected canopy, still they turn away from its signs."

(PICKT) 25.053 "And He it is Who hath given independence to the two seas (though they meet); one palatable, sweet, and the other saltish, bitter; and hath set a bar and a forbidding ban between them."

(TCQ) 25.53 "And He is the One Who merges the two bodies of water: one fresh and palatable and the other salty and bitter, placing between them a barrier they cannot cross."

(PICKT) 27.061 "Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode, and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any God beside Allah ? Nay, but most of them know not!"

(TCQ) 27.61 "Or [ask them,] “Who made the earth a place of settlement, caused rivers to flow through it, placed firm mountains upon it, and set a barrier between [fresh and salt] bodies of water? Was it another god besides God?” Absolutely not! But most of them do not know."

(PICKT) 55.019-020 "He hath loosed the two seas. They meet. There is a barrier between them. They encroach not (one upon the other)."

(TCQ) 55.19-.20 "He merges the two bodies of [fresh and salt] water, yet between them is a barrier they never cross."
 

Nixs

Well-Known Member
Even the money changers do not make sense in context of being killed for looking like a human, and would not be killed if they knew it was a gift for mankind of eternal life.

Doesn't it make sense that the answer is Satan without pulling in later Gospel narratives?
They knew who Jesus was, and they knew he could be killed like any other "human". Satan was probably an advisor and instigator.
 
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