2nd Grow- Wanting to get the soil dialed in

[banana_orange]

Howdy good folks at RIU!

So i finally got my first grow in. I definitely referenced this forum many, many times and it always came to my rescue. I couldn't have done it so smoothly without tonnes of threads already posted here. So, i am grateful for those who've come before me and shared their experience.

Summary:

It was a photoperiod (Sour Purple) in FFOF (with added perlite) in a 3 gallon pot (transplanted), 30W burple that i upgraded to a 100W (daylight) early flower, Jobes Organic 4-4-4 and Jobes Tomato bloom 2-5-3 dry amendments (fed per the manufacturers recommendation). I was using tap water PH'd between 6-6.5 and did NOT over water (learnt that quick). I also sparingly fed Kelp extract and mycos and top dressed with EWC (once).

For feeding schedule, I sort of got a handle on the feeding schedule for veg stage during late veg (yellowing leaves) and i sort of learnt about flowering feeding schedule towards mid flower. My key take away, for each phase feeding, is to keep an eye on the plant and it will tell you what it needs except flowering; there i would feed with flowering amendments (in my case 2-5-3) at the 3rd week of flower.

I had very minor issues (CALMAG mainly) and the rest went off without a hitch. I harvested it last week (8.5 weeks) and is currently drying. I was able to keep the temp and humidity in check.

I took clones off the plant, not because i was pheno hunting or anything of the sort, but rather to learn about cloning and figured i can become better at growing if i can keep the same strain (and one pheno type) as it would be one less variable to consider.

Plan for 2nd grow:

I am keeping the same methodology for feeding for this 2nd grow (clone) but with the following changes. Everything else remains the same from above.

1- Transplant the clone into amended FFOF (with 4-4-4 and with added perlite).
2- When flipping to flower, i will top dress with 2-5-3 and EWC.

What are your thoughts on the changes? If you were to tweak this recipe out, what would it be?

thx for stopping by!

 

[JimmyJackCorn]

I like it! Simple, straightforward--but I don't see much in the way of minerals. I use actual dirt in my soil mixes, so I'm short on product ideas.

EWC is awesome! Depending on the EWC you use, it may contain some minerals.

But if the last recipe worked and you're starting with new ingredients, you may not really need to make any changes--unless you're trying to pushit. If you're recycling the used mediums, you will likely need some mineral inputs.

For example, one mineral I don't recognize in any of your inputs is iron. Such a deficiency can cause yellowing of new growth (an interveinal chlorosis starting at the stem-end of new leaves).

Looks to me like you've got your feet underneath you pretty well! And take all this for what it's worth since I'm still kinda new myself!

edit: Oh yeah, the first thing I wanted to say was that I would seriously consider better lighting!

R/

 

[Boatguy]

Howdy good folks at RIU!

So i finally got my first grow in. I definitely referenced this forum many, many times and it always came to my rescue. I couldn't have done it so smoothly without tonnes of threads already posted here. So, i am grateful for those who've come before me and shared their experience.

Summary:

It was a photoperiod (Sour Purple) in FFOF (with added perlite) in a 3 gallon pot (transplanted), 30W burple that i upgraded to a 100W (daylight) early flower, Jobes Organic 4-4-4 and Jobes Tomato bloom 2-5-3 dry amendments (fed per the manufacturers recommendation). I was using tap water PH'd between 6-6.5 and did NOT over water (learnt that quick). I also sparingly fed Kelp extract and mycos and top dressed with EWC (once).

For feeding schedule, I sort of got a handle on the feeding schedule for veg stage during late veg (yellowing leaves) and i sort of learnt about flowering feeding schedule towards mid flower. My key take away, for each phase feeding, is to keep an eye on the plant and it will tell you what it needs except flowering; there i would feed with flowering amendments (in my case 2-5-3) at the 3rd week of flower.

I had very minor issues (CALMAG mainly) and the rest went off without a hitch. I harvested it last week (8.5 weeks) and is currently drying. I was able to keep the temp and humidity in check.

I took clones off the plant, not because i was pheno hunting or anything of the sort, but rather to learn about cloning and figured i can become better at growing if i can keep the same strain (and one pheno type) as it would be one less variable to consider.

Plan for 2nd grow:

I am keeping the same methodology for feeding for this 2nd grow (clone) but with the following changes. Everything else remains the same from above.

1- Transplant the clone into amended FFOF (with 4-4-4 and with added perlite).
2- When flipping to flower, i will top dress with 2-5-3 and EWC.

What are your thoughts on the changes? If you were to tweak this recipe out, what would it be?

thx for stopping by!

Be careful with amending ffof. May be ok with a clone but it is a hot soil out of the bag.
Top dressing as needed or dosing with an organic liquid fert later on would be safer.

 

[banana_orange]

I like it! Simple, straightforward--but I don't see much in the way of minerals. I use actual dirt in my soil mixes, so I'm short on product ideas.

EWC is awesome! Depending on the EWC you use, it may contain some minerals.

But if the last recipe worked and you're starting with new ingredients, you may not really need to make any changes--unless you're trying to pushit. If you're recycling the used mediums, you will likely need some mineral inputs.

For example, one mineral I don't recognize in any of your inputs is iron. Such a deficiency can cause yellowing of new growth (an interveinal chlorosis starting at the stem-end of new leaves).

Looks to me like you've got your feet underneath you pretty well! And take all this for what it's worth since I'm still kinda new myself!

edit: Oh yeah, the first thing I wanted to say was that I would seriously consider better lighting!

R/

Yes, i do think simple as well. However, your take on the mineral aspect is Interesting. How can i go about adding Iron?

 

[banana_orange]

Be careful with amending ffof. May be ok with a clone but it is a hot soil out of the bag.
Top dressing as needed or dosing with an organic liquid fert later on would be safer.

Noted. I might put half as much as I had intended then. I'll have to think a bit more about it.

 

[banana_orange]

I do have a quesiton though:

If you're growing organically in soil, do you need to water till 20-30% run off? I did that during my last grow and while it did not hurt anything, it definitely felt like i was wasting the amendments (flushing them out unnecessarily).

 

[green_machine_two9er]

Yes, i do think simple as well. However, your take on the mineral aspect is Interesting. How can i go about adding Iron?

Quality castings typically have iron.
but it would never be a bad idea to add some basalt for micros and minerals. Super fine ormmicronized to help get some availability during a short cannabis cycle.

also thrive green alive has Fe.
even big bloom from FF has it as well. But slot of time yourtap water will have plenty as well. What is your water source??

 

[green_machine_two9er]

I do have a quesiton though:

If you're growing organically in soil, do you need to water till 20-30% run off? I did that during my last grow and while it did not hurt anything, it definitely felt like i was wasting the amendments (flushing them out unnecessarily).

Not typically. Did you get runoff right away when applying water or like 20-30 minutes after watering?

 

[banana_orange]

Not typically. Did you get runoff right away when applying water or like 20-30 minutes after watering?

20-30 mins. I water slow as I am using fabric pots.

 

[banana_orange]

Quality castings typically have iron.
but it would never be a bad idea to add some basalt for micros and minerals. Super fine ormmicronized to help get some availability during a short cannabis cycle.

also thrive green alive has Fe.
even big bloom from FF has it as well. But slot of time yourtap water will have plenty as well. What is your water source??

I am using tap water (aerated for 24hrs with a bubbler) and then PH'd to 6.0-6.5.

 

[Livingblacksoil]

I read but am not sure if you're using same soil as last grow. I would recycle and reamend.
Bigger pot and better light can't hurt.
Good luck!

 

[green_machine_two9er]

I would stop all those things. Ph adjust plain water is a wasted step and more detrimental than helpful in organic soil grow.
Bubbling water doesn’t really do anything. Water is water. As soon as you stop bubbling it’s still h20. Bubbling compost teas is different.
Are you watering everyday? If you get runoff like that it’s probably overwatered. Soil likes a “just right” amount. Too little water and runoff happens immediately. To much it sits in the pan hours after your watering practice.

 

[banana_orange]

I would stop all those things. Ph adjust plain water is a wasted step and more detrimental than helpful in organic soil grow.
Bubbling water doesn’t really do anything. Water is water. As soon as you stop bubbling it’s still h20. Bubbling compost teas is different.
Are you watering everyday? If you get runoff like that it’s probably overwatered. Soil likes a “just right” amount. Too little water and runoff happens immediately. To much it sits in the pan hours after your watering practice.

I watered every 4-5 day (depending on the need of the plant). My pot was 3 gallon. Over time i came to read my pot and plant quite well. I am not clear on your stance regarding run off water and soil: are you in favor of it or not?

Additionally, i dont follow your thought process regarding adjusting tap water ph. The water out of my tap is over pH 8; getting it down to 6-6.5 is a reasonable assessment. Sure, i can drop the aeration with a bubbler and let the chlorine dissipate passively into the air.

 

[SoulMan63]

Hi I wanted to give you the link but couldn’t figure it out. So go to pthorticulture.com. Tells you that your water pH doesn’t play a big role in maintaining proper pH for a growing medium. It’s a great read. I like the Pro-mix MP. Ingredients, peat moss , coco coir, perlite, limestone, and mycorrhiza. Oh by the way it’s more to do with the allkalinity of the water. Good luck.

 

[green_machine_two9er]

I watered every 4-5 day (depending on the need of the plant). My pot was 3 gallon. Over time i came to read my pot and plant quite well. I am not clear on your stance regarding run off water and soil: are you in favor of it or not?

Additionally, i dont follow your thought process regarding adjusting tap water ph. The water out of my tap is over pH 8; getting it down to 6-6.5 is a reasonable assessment. Sure, i can drop the aeration with a bubbler and let the chlorine dissipate passively into the air.

Sorry was rushing to get to work and didn’t really explain my train of thought. Here goea

in organic soil ( compost/ewc/dry amendments) no runoff would be preferred.Getting soil to be thriving and alive is the main goal with watering. The beneficials do the rest.( including regulating ph at the soil level)
Soils that are allowed to dry become super hydrophobic and repel water. Bacteria will cyst over during drought and create a waxy layer as they go dormant. This is the exact opposite of what the organic gardener wants. I’m a big proponent of watering everyday. Even if it’s the sam volume of water compared to a once every 4 days schedule. Once soil is happy and thriving we just have to keep moisture levels up and let biology take over. Water is life after all no reason to every starve your poor soil and plants.
The runoff rule is pretty simple. If water runs straight through during application and “wicks “ back into contsiner your most likely underwatering.
If runoff stays in saucer than overwatered. Just right is in the middle somewhere of that.

And on ph. The water doesn’t change your soil ph. It just doesn’t. Think of it as taking a shower in alkaline water. Washing your body in 8.0 isn’t going to change your internal ph, say of your digestive system. There is a whole lot more going on in the dirt and ocean Forrest is buffered and microbes and the plant actually regulate ph all on their own.

just do an experiment if you don’t believe me. Buy a cheap ph “soil probe”. Watch what happens.
I’m not telling you this from a theoretical stand point but running my own test with 8 plus ph water. The soil is only affected detrimentally to ph adjustments. If your were to be feeding salts then the “nutrients solution” ph is vital. Not with watering organic soil
What’s amazing is the interactions of plant and microbes. I’ve documented this over snd over. As the plant heads into flower my soil will automatically adjust to a slightly lower 6.3-6.5 because the plants knows what it wants. Roots will use exudates to attract certain bacteria needed for P or K uptake, this bacteria willl alter soil ph through a bunch of biochemical processes. It’s magic.
Potassium bicarbonate HARMS this natural process. Thus you get stuck chasing your own tail.
Either way. You’d be better off just adding recharge once every two weeks or so or just fresh compost

 

[banana_orange]

Sorry was rushing to get to work and didn’t really explain my train of thought. Here goea

in organic soil ( compost/ewc/dry amendments) no runoff would be preferred.Getting soil to be thriving and alive is the main goal with watering. The beneficials do the rest.( including regulating ph at the soil level)
Soils that are allowed to dry become super hydrophobic and repel water. Bacteria will cyst over during drought and create a waxy layer as they go dormant. This is the exact opposite of what the organic gardener wants. I’m a big proponent of watering everyday. Even if it’s the sam volume of water compared to a once every 4 days schedule. Once soil is happy and thriving we just have to keep moisture levels up and let biology take over. Water is life after all no reason to every starve your poor soil and plants.
The runoff rule is pretty simple. If water runs straight through during application and “wicks “ back into contsiner your most likely underwatering.
If runoff stays in saucer than overwatered. Just right is in the middle somewhere of that.

And on ph. The water doesn’t change your soil ph. It just doesn’t. Think of it as taking a shower in alkaline water. Washing your body in 8.0 isn’t going to change your internal ph, say of your digestive system. There is a whole lot more going on in the dirt and ocean Forrest is buffered and microbes and the plant actually regulate ph all on their own.

just do an experiment if you don’t believe me. Buy a cheap ph “soil probe”. Watch what happens.
I’m not telling you this from a theoretical stand point but running my own test with 8 plus ph water. The soil is only affected detrimentally to ph adjustments. If your were to be feeding salts then the “nutrients solution” ph is vital. Not with watering organic soil
What’s amazing is the interactions of plant and microbes. I’ve documented this over snd over. As the plant heads into flower my soil will automatically adjust to a slightly lower 6.3-6.5 because the plants knows what it wants. Roots will use exudates to attract certain bacteria needed for P or K uptake, this bacteria willl alter soil ph through a bunch of biochemical processes. It’s magic.
Potassium bicarbonate HARMS this natural process. Thus you get stuck chasing your own tail.
Either way. You’d be better off just adding recharge once every two weeks or so or just fresh compost

What a detailed reply. Much appreciated!

So, here is what I have distilled from your response.

1- Soil should be watered frequently and avoid extended periods of no watering. This is to prevent the biology within the soil to go dormant and will prevent the soil from becoming hydrophobic.

2- Due to the buffering ability of the soil, a high PH of tap water will not cause problems leading to nutrient lock out due to rootzone pH drifting. Adding PH balancing chemicals hurt the local biology of the soil.

Question: Wouldn't a consistently high pH tap water consume the buffering capability of the soil at some point?

 

[green_machine_two9er]

What a detailed reply. Much appreciated!

So, here is what I have distilled from your response.

1- Soil should be watered frequently and avoid extended periods of no watering. This is to prevent the biology within the soil to go dormant and will prevent the soil from becoming hydrophobic.

2- Due to the buffering ability of the soil, a high PH of tap water will not cause problems leading to nutrient lock out due to rootzone pH drifting. Adding PH balancing chemicals hurt the local biology of the soil.

Question: Wouldn't a consistently high pH tap water consume the buffering capability of the soil at some point?

I don’t think the buffering capacity really changes. I mean maybe over decades but short term I wouldn’t worry to much

 

[JimmyJackCorn]

Yes, i do think simple as well. However, your take on the mineral aspect is Interesting. How can i go about adding Iron?

Will you post pictures of your last grow? It may be you don't really have any problems to fix or issues to address at all (unless you're recycling your soil).

And all the great general information and advice coming from @green_machine_two9er would be good to heed!

 

[green_machine_two9er]

Hi I wanted to give you the link but couldn’t figure it out. So go to pthorticulture.com. Tells you that your water pH doesn’t play a big role in maintaining proper pH for a growing medium. It’s a great read. I like the Pro-mix MP. Ingredients, peat moss , coco coir, perlite, limestone, and mycorrhiza. Oh by the way it’s more to do with the allkalinity of the water. Good luck.

There’s a little chain looking button in the tools tab. Copy website there for clickable links in your post

 

[banana_orange]

lol i actually did not take many photos. But here are the final ones. Take a look and give feedback.

Other than that, I think i've gathered my take aways from this thread:

1- Try watering without Ph'ing and no need for drastic amount of run off; none is acceptable.

2- Keeping foxfarm with top dressing etc.

Once my bag FFOF runs out, i'll check out ProMix Hp organic soil. No idea what to do there but i'll cross that bridge till i get there.