How to Properly Aerate a Small (or large) Rez

linuxman

linuxman

Well-Known Member
amneziaHaze said:
well you do know there are spunge filters for aquarium that use an airstone or airpump. and it moves and filters the water...
Click to expand...
"Sponge filters" are not "ideally" used in the marine fish reefing hobby (specially for professional larger tanks), I do not know anyone who would ever consider to use a sponge filter on their $4,000-$20,000+ reef tank builds.
They use pinwheel impeller pumps which efficiently and saturates the water tank with maximum concentration of oxygen and also used in the skimmer device which passively filters out majority of organic wastes that are suspended in the water.
This pump can be bought for around $26 from amazon, might require some basic mods:
https://www.amazon.com/Rio-Plus-Venturi-Water-Pump/dp/B000YMGL2A/ref=sr_1_34?crid=3JV1Z7ROLU5FA&keywords=Skimmer+Pump&qid=1643070319&sprefix=skimmer+pump,aps,236&sr=8-34

Simple cheap sponge filters are "alright" for less expensive small tanks, for the fresh water fish aquarium hobby same goes for hydroponic setups.
You could also use a "sponge filter" for a small marine fish aquarium tank as well but it has to be an advanced type, not the skimpy $2-$5 cheap sponge filters which are used in fresh water fish tanks.

I would use a pinwheel pump for any hydroponic, marine fish or fresh fish tank setups, since its 10000 times better than a skimpy cheap sponge filter.
Sponge filters also clogs over time and has more maintenance required, they are not efficient in saturating oxygen to the water.
Sponge filters just begs for dead fish (specially for marine pet fish) and cannabis plants.

If you really love your "prized" marine fish and cannabis plants, I'd advice in trying to not get a cheap sponge filter unless your wallet is super dry.
 
amneziaHaze

amneziaHaze

Well-Known Member
2 dollar air pump does 200l aquariums sooo....
I mentioned spunge filter because somebody said air bubles from an air pump dont mix your water
 
linuxman

linuxman

Well-Known Member
A $2 air pump does 200 "liters" "aquarium", is irrelevant, soooo please, talk "quantitively" and not like an epic noobie.
Are you saying "200 liters" of "aquarium" water "per" what? "Per" every "sec", "min", "hour", "day", "week" or "month"?
Also how much "dissolved oxygen" (PPM or mg/L) can a $2 air pump provide for every gallon of water?

Do you realize that a proper system needs at least 1 L/min of air pump flow for every 1 gallon of water?
This means for a 50 gallon tank (about 200L), you'll need a 50L/min air pump for proper levels of dissolved oxygen.
You'll never ever find a 50L/min air pump for $2 anywhere in this universe my friend.
You might get away using a "$2 air pump" for maybe few goldfishes or 1 cannabis plant not growing larger than 2 foot tall..

You obviously would have no clue what I am talking about here... anyways I'm just laying out these info for people who would try not to follow your terrible advice in using a sponge filter (either for fish or hydro setups).

Anyways you need to follow and have the proper oxygen saturation/concentration in water for either fish or hydroponic systems.

Do not just listen what the fancy box label says "it does 200l aquariums" whatever that means... cause you'll end up with dead fish when you put your "prized" koi fish in the tank cause it'll consume all the "dissolved oxygen" in the water tank quickly. Same goes for cannabis plants.

Fresh water fish and marine water fish are different things my friend, salt water fish requires almost double the amount of dissolved oxygen as compared to fresh water fish.

Also you're laughable :lol: recommendation of using "sponge filter" can not provide the proper and optimal levels of "dissolved oxygen" with its huge globs of air bubbles, very inefficient.

If you really want to talk logically, you could have said to use a "$2 pump" bundled an "air/bubble diffuser", which creates much much finer small air bubble particles, this will indeed saturate the water with oxygen much more effectively than a sponge filter.

Here are some links to better educate yourself about proper "dissolved oxygen" levels and "science" for fresh water fish tank systems explained for noobies:

Here are some links to better educate yourself about proper "dissolved oxygen" levels and "science" for Saltwater fish tank systems explained for noobies:

Here are some links to better educate yourself about proper "dissolved oxygen" levels and "science" for Hydroponic systems explained for noobies:
This should start making you laugh why a "sponge filter" is such a terrible recommendation for cannabis hydro systems.
You could use it, but it would be a super bad way to implement it.

I like to oxygenate my hydro system as 100% confidently as possible, meaning I like to know the "exact" dissolved oxygen levels in the water tank.

I bought a lab grade "Atlas scientific" "Dissolved oxygen probe sensor" and can monitor, record and adjust the dissolved oxygen levels in reef tanks and also hydro setups. But you do not need to be such a professional as me and can do things properly without using a sponge filter or a lab grade Dissolved Oxygen sensor probe for professional or serious builds in hydros or reefs.
 
Bucsfan80

Bucsfan80

Well-Known Member
I read some where that little pumps like that and even air pumps with air stones only add air, not oxygen. The difference being the air we breath only has so much oxygen in it and is mixed with other gasses and what not. Now if you could use pure O2 that would be something. Like I said I read it some where while deciding if I was gonna go without an air pump/stone in my rdwc. That being said it might be BS or have some merit idk just thought I'd pop in
 
Bucsfan80

Bucsfan80

Well-Known Member
linuxman said:
A $2 air pump does 200 "liters" "aquarium", is irrelevant, soooo please, talk "quantitively" and not like an epic noobie.
Are you saying "200 liters" of "aquarium" water "per" what? "Per" every "sec", "min", "hour", "day", "week" or "month"?
Also how much "dissolved oxygen" (PPM or mg/L) can a $2 air pump provide for every gallon of water?

Do you realize that a proper system needs at least 1 L/min of air pump flow for every 1 gallon of water?
This means for a 50 gallon tank (about 200L), you'll need a 50L/min air pump for proper levels of dissolved oxygen.
You'll never ever find a 50L/min air pump for $2 anywhere in this universe my friend.
You might get away using a "$2 air pump" for maybe few goldfishes or 1 cannabis plant not growing larger than 2 foot tall..

You obviously would have no clue what I am talking about here... anyways I'm just laying out these info for people who would try not to follow your terrible advice in using a sponge filter (either for fish or hydro setups).

Anyways you need to follow and have the proper oxygen saturation/concentration in water for either fish or hydroponic systems.

Do not just listen what the fancy box label says "it does 200l aquariums" whatever that means... cause you'll end up with dead fish when you put your "prized" koi fish in the tank cause it'll consume all the "dissolved oxygen" in the water tank quickly. Same goes for cannabis plants.

Fresh water fish and marine water fish are different things my friend, salt water fish requires almost double the amount of dissolved oxygen as compared to fresh water fish.

Also you're laughable :lol: recommendation of using "sponge filter" can not provide the proper and optimal levels of "dissolved oxygen" with its huge globs of air bubbles, very inefficient.

If you really want to talk logically, you could have said to use a "$2 pump" bundled an "air/bubble diffuser", which creates much much finer small air bubble particles, this will indeed saturate the water with oxygen much more effectively than a sponge filter.

Here are some links to better educate yourself about proper "dissolved oxygen" levels and "science" for fresh water fish tank systems explained for noobies:

Here are some links to better educate yourself about proper "dissolved oxygen" levels and "science" for Saltwater fish tank systems explained for noobies:

Here are some links to better educate yourself about proper "dissolved oxygen" levels and "science" for Hydroponic systems explained for noobies:
This should start making you laugh why a "sponge filter" is such a terrible recommendation for cannabis hydro systems.
You could use it, but it would be a super bad way to implement it.

I like to oxygenate my hydro system as 100% confidently as possible, meaning I like to know the "exact" dissolved oxygen levels in the water tank.

I bought a lab grade "Atlas scientific" "Dissolved oxygen probe sensor" and can monitor, record and adjust the dissolved oxygen levels in reef tanks and also hydro setups. But you do not need to be such a professional as me and can do things properly without using a sponge filter or a lab grade Dissolved Oxygen sensor probe for professional or serious builds in hydros or reefs.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, how much DO is average? Just say with a decent air pump/stone or like a waterfall? I ask cause you have a meter and sure you tested things out.
 
linuxman

linuxman

Well-Known Member
Bucsfan80 said:
I read some where that little pumps like that and even air pumps with air stones only add air, not oxygen. The difference being the air we breath only has so much oxygen in it and is mixed with other gasses and what not. Now if you could use pure O2 that would be something. Like I said I read it some where while deciding if I was gonna go without an air pump/stone in my rdwc. That being said it might be BS or have some merit idk just thought I'd pop in
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right, air pumps only pumps "air"... this means you're only getting 21% of effective dissolved oxygen for the every liter of air that is being continuously pumped into the bubble diffuser for every min. The air we breath only contains about 21% of oxygen.

This is the exact specific reason why I have recommended to use a pinwheel impeller pump so that it will efficiently saturate and increase the water with high levels of dissolved oxygen as compared to air pumps. Its very effective.
A sponge filter with its huge globs of bubbles are very inefficient to dissolve the 21% of oxygen in air into the water for every min.

I have seen people utilizing 100% O2 tanks for aquariums, but its very rare and not needed unless for special reasons, too much dissolved oxygen can actually kill fish. I have seen people using pure O2 tanks in hydro setups as well, its not needed unless for special reasons, expensive setup and overkill.

Compressed O2 tanks are also a safety hazard, these things can "explode" due to high pressure of O2 contained in the pressurized vessel. Have to be super careful where you place and handling them
If pure O2 also started leaking heavily/ruptured into the confined grow room space for some reason, it can quickly displace "air" we breath and will cause us gasping for air, thus eventually killing us.

Just look at this article where 22 COVID patients died from a faulty leak of a ruptured pure O2 tank:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/04/21/india-hospital-oxygen-deaths/
 
Bucsfan80

Bucsfan80

Well-Known Member
Hell yeah glad to hear what I read wasn't BS lol. I've not heard of a pinwheel impeller pump till I seen this thread. If I was still looking for alternatives I probably would have gotten one. I got tired of hearing the air pump and made a spray bar that is connected to my circ pump. I call it the root spa lol. Anyway thanks for the reply.. peace
 
linuxman

linuxman

Well-Known Member
Bucsfan80 said:
Hell yeah glad to hear what I read wasn't BS lol. I've not heard of a pinwheel impeller pump till I seen this thread. If I was still looking for alternatives I probably would have gotten one. I got tired of hearing the air pump and made a spray bar that is connected to my circ pump. I call it the root spa lol. Anyway thanks for the reply.. peace
Click to expand...
I was getting about 9 mg/L of D.O using air diffusers but was getting similar results with tap water as a control.
The thing was that I was not getting great results for DWC hydro alone, the D.O was not increasing when I started boosting and upgraded to a bigger air pump.
Plants kept dying for "some reason". I was using tap water which has a PPM of 45 mg/L. So tap water is fairly top notch.
Using the common air stone diffuser are not effective in boosting the D.O greatly. You will need to use a proper "professional" "micro" or "nano" bubble particle diffusers to actually increase D.O levels considerably. The $100-$300 pinwheel impellers pumps can do this effectively. This is the reason why it is tired, true and trusted in the reefing fish community with people with their thousands of dollars reef tank builds with their "prized" marine coral fishes.

I believe the reason why common cheap air diffusers are very effective in DWC hydro setup is because the roots are actually touching 100% pure air pockets as the bubble rises to the top.

Either way, I wasted so much gallons of water, time and my energy. I decided to go to plan "B", I switch to "True Aeroponics" system that I custom built, the remaining sick plants that were limits to death on the 3rd retry run for DWC, sprouted hella back up and grew fast and healthy in 1 week when I placed them in the True Aero system.
I was completely astound with the results. Since then I never used any other hydro setups other than True Aero.

If you are "suspicious" with my claims or think I am just "bluffing"... :eyesmoke:

Here is a photo of my "lab grade" "Atlas Scientific" "Dissolved Oxygen Sensor Probe Kit". I believe I bought it for $250 about 7 years ago.
These types of probes are for engineers/electronic hobbyists who knows how to build custom electronic circuits and how to program their own code into proper microcontrollers to make these highly "affordable" lab grade sensors probes to work practically and precisely how you would like them to be useful. Instead of me spending $500 - $800 D.O sensor probes from a ready "pre-built" "ready made" unit from a different company.
Yes, I literally saved a whopping $250 to $550 to build my own lab grade D.O sensor and works better than the "Pre-built" "ready-made" stuff.
The poor thing has been collecting dusts for many years... It'll be put to good use for my current true aeroponic grow journal just for the fun of it :D

Take note of my printed signature and date stamp in the pic: :bigjoint:

IMG_1766.JPG
 
Bucsfan80

Bucsfan80

Well-Known Member
linuxman said:
I was getting about 9 mg/L of D.O using air diffusers but was getting similar results with tap water as a control.
The thing was that I was not getting great results for DWC hydro alone, the D.O was not increasing when I started boosting and upgraded to a bigger air pump.
Plants kept dying for "some reason". I was using tap water which has a PPM of 45 mg/L. So tap water is fairly top notch.
Using the common air stone diffuser are not effective in boosting the D.O greatly. You will need to use a proper "professional" "micro" or "nano" bubble particle diffusers to actually increase D.O levels considerably. The $100-$300 pinwheel impellers pumps can do this effectively. This is the reason why it is tired, true and trusted in the reefing fish community with people with their thousands of dollars reef tank builds with their "prized" marine coral fishes.

I believe the reason why common cheap air diffusers are very effective in DWC hydro setup is because the roots are actually touching 100% pure air pockets as the bubble rises to the top.

Either way, I wasted so much gallons of water, time and my energy. I decided to go to plan "B", I switch to "True Aeroponics" system that I custom built, the remaining sick plants that were limits to death on the 3rd retry run for DWC, sprouted hella back up and grew fast and healthy in 1 week when I placed them in the True Aero system.
I was completely astound with the results. Since then I never used any other hydro setups other than True Aero.

If you are "suspicious" with my claims or think I am just "bluffing"... :eyesmoke:

Here is a photo of my "lab grade" "Atlas Scientific" "Dissolved Oxygen Sensor Probe Kit". I believe I bought it for $250 about 7 years ago.
These types of probes are for engineers/electronic hobbyists who knows how to build custom electronic circuits and how to program their own code into proper microcontrollers to make these highly "affordable" lab grade sensors probes to work practically and precisely how you would like them to be useful. Instead of me spending $500 - $800 D.O sensor probes from a ready "pre-built" "ready made" unit from a different company.
Yes, I literally saved a whopping $250 to $550 to build my own lab grade D.O sensor and works better than the "Pre-built" "ready-made" stuff.
The poor thing has been collecting dusts for many years... It'll be put to good use for my current true aeroponic grow journal just for the fun of it :D

Take note of my printed signature and date stamp in the pic: :bigjoint:

View attachment 5074422
Click to expand...
I wasn't questioning you or equipment. That's cool that you were able to build one. I'm not a techie lol
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
@linuxman if you have a meter, why don't you take a small submersible water pump and build a simple waterfall and post up some DO readings. then put a cap on the end of the waterfall tubing with some 1/8" holes and make it a sprayer like you have next to your kitchen sink and post up those results. thanks.
 
linuxman

linuxman

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
@linuxman if you have a meter, why don't you take a small submersible water pump and build a simple waterfall and post up some DO readings. then put a cap on the end of the waterfall tubing with some 1/8" holes and make it a sprayer like you have next to your kitchen sink and post up those results. thanks.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the excellent suggestion, will do it when I get the chance and will let you know about the readings.
The end cap with some holes to make a sprayer like waterfall is a nice idea and might give better D.O readings.

I however found a video on YouTube where someone has already tried this and the results were the same, but note that he was using reagents to test the D.O levels. It was for his hydroponic setup, I am not surprised with the fact he is using a professional "Reef aquarium testing kit" and the results are same for all methods (air stone, ordinary waterfall and control):

 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
linuxman said:
The end cap with some holes to make a sprayer like waterfall is a nice idea and might give better D.O readings
Click to expand...
that is how i built my rdwc system and those roots have been by far the best of any method i've ever tried.

on my scale of 1 to 5 id' put airstones at maybe a 1, waterfalls at a 2 and then serious aquarium tech at a 4 or 5 as far as DO. the real question is what "level" is optimal for cannabis roots.
 
Bucsfan80

Bucsfan80

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
that is how i built my rdwc system and those roots have been by far the best of any method i've ever tried.

on my scale of 1 to 5 id' put airstones at maybe a 1, waterfalls at a 2 and then serious aquarium tech at a 4 or 5 as far as DO. the real question is what "level" is optimal for cannabis roots.
Click to expand...
My spray bar is kinda the same concept as the cap with holes except stretched out horizontally lol. Roots love it that's why it got the name root spa lol
Resized_20220116_235802.jpeg
 
linuxman

linuxman

Well-Known Member
Bucsfan80 said:
My spray bar is kinda the same concept as the cap with holes except stretched out horizontally lol. Roots love it that's why it got the name root spa lol
View attachment 5074984
Click to expand...
Nice clean white massive population of roots, I'm sure you are using some kind of sterilization protocol to prevent root rot.
Do you use chlorine or hydrogen peroxide for keeping a sterile DWC?
I highly doubt anyone would get clean roots like that without any kind of sterilization protocol/maintenance.

I currently bought a concentrated 54% of calcium hypochlorite (Pool Shock) and will make diluted solution which will dose this to the reservoir fully automatically using lab grade ORP sensor probe kit from "Atlas Scientific" to monitor the chlorine's oxidation redox levels which will help to keep the reservoir tank at a controllable sterile condition with a range of 4-5 PPM of chlorine in the reservoir tank. 4-5PPM of chlorine is completely safe for humans to drink and safe for beneficial bacteria, 4-5PPM of chlorine is also effective at keeping pathogens and diseases at bay.

From my research, there is a product called "Clear Rez" it is a tried and true product, heavily sworn and recommended by the LPA cloner guys.
I have seen many videos and results and the claims do really seem to be really good at keeping superb healthy roots.
The "Clear Rez" stuff is nothing more than diluted calcium hypochlorite solution.

A 1 pound bag of 54% of calcium hypochlorite, should last me many years of use for a HPA/LPA system.
 
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Bucsfan80

Bucsfan80

Well-Known Member
linuxman said:
Nice clean white massive population of roots, I'm sure you are using some kind of sterilization protocol to prevent root rot.
Do you use chlorine or hydrogen peroxide for keeping a sterile DWC?
I highly doubt anyone would get clean roots like that without any kind of sterilization protocol/maintenance.

I currently bought a concentrated 54% of calcium hypochlorite (Pool Shock) and will make diluted solution which will dose this to the reservoir fully automatically using lab grade ORP sensor probe kit from "Atlas Scientific" to monitor the chlorine's oxidation redox levels which will help to keep the reservoir tank at a controllable sterile condition with a range of 4-5 PPM of chlorine in the reservoir tank. 4-5PPM of chlorine is completely safe for humans to drink and safe for beneficial bacteria, 4-5PPM of chlorine is also effective at keeping pathogens and diseases at bay.

From my research, there is a product called "Clear Rez" it is a tried and true product, heavily sworn and recommended by the LPA cloner guys.
I have seen many videos and results and the claims to really seem to be really good at keeping superb healthy roots.
The "Clear Rez" stuff is nothing more than diluted calcium hypochlorite solution.

A 1 pound bag of 54% of calcium hypochlorite, should last me many years of use for a HPA/LPA system.
Click to expand...
Yeah they love the root spa lol. No I don't use oxidizers or bennies. Have both used both it's been over a year since I've put anything but nutes, calmag and ph up/down.
 
GanjaJack

GanjaJack

Well-Known Member
People think that it's only about air..... Nope.

I use one 4-way air pump, x 4 of the big blue round air stones, in a 5 gallon DWC.

You ask, why use so many air stones ? Because you can only impart so much dissolved oxygen into the res...

Nope....

The increase of the flow and rate of water agitation not only provides much more dissolved oxygen, it agitates the roots and makes them grow bigger... Which then provides MUCH MUCH more surface area for dissolved oxygen to be used. More roots, more dissolved oxygen that the plants can take in, making for a stronger plant.

When my grows are all done, I end up with a 1lb per plant and a 5 gallon bucket that's filled with a giant rootball.
 
GanjaJack

GanjaJack

Well-Known Member
This isn't my rootball, but, it is what I am talking about. This is what I normally end up with... Every 3 months... My rootballs actually end up being a bit bigger as they FILL the entire bucket right to the sides. hehehe

rootball.jpg
 
linuxman

linuxman

Well-Known Member
Bucsfan80 said:
Yeah they love the root spa lol. No I don't use oxidizers or bennies. Have both used both it's been over a year since I've put anything but nutes, calmag and ph up/down.
Click to expand...
Just wow, its very rare for me to hear someone say they do not use any kind of sterile reservoir tank protocol for a controlled/predictable healthy grow when using non-organic nutes. I can only imagine what exactly is keeping your DWC grow stable and healthy of keeping pathogens at bay.

For my True Aeroponic system, I'll get some really epic thick clear translucent Gooey Louie slime build up all over on the roots when I stop using an effective sterile reservoir protocol.

What kind of nutes and water do you use?
 
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