HLG 600's and leaf burn

[Starseed.extracts]

Just for reference , this is what my plants used to consistently look like Everytime when I ran the exact same lights in tents .. it makes no sense to me.

Sometimes the coloas would be like ,18" from the LEDs at MAX power (probably over 1000) . Now I'm FRYiNG my girls at 3' feet away closer to 700/800.. what gives lol. Also nothing less of my formula had changed. My tent plants, outdoor plants, ect all have gotten the same treatment, and I would have healthy plants and great yields. ..now I can't even get a harvest harvest because my leaves are burning to a crisp at 800 ppfd.

 

[Zipz55]

I had the same problem with my hlg QB96s

those hlg lights can be intense

you gotta either raise your lights or dim them

my dumb ass had each QB96 running of its own 185w meanwell driver at 100%

took me frying a couple grows to realize I only needed to run them at 50%

 

[Gregshed]

Clearly underfed but good luck...

 

[welight]

Given you have a good meter, I would PAR map your entire space, at various heights to understand the net effect of cross talk. The centre intensity is certainly being magnified. My take on the newer HLG products is a gearing toward commercial growers at height, therefore the lower these lights are the more problematic. Your grow space based on images screams strip lights to mitigate the intensity, but your now invested so need to understand how to use the light you have to its best advantage and PAR maps may be illuminating. Not saying your feed regime does not need to adjust to the light you have, but understanding the light levels is a good start point
Cheers

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Looks outside @ 2000+ umol/s on a clear day, nah ...... Did you p boost?

 

[Starseed.extracts]

Clearly underfed but good luck...

They're not underfed, I assure you. They went from lush green and healthy strong growth, to burned to a crisp in less than 40 hours. The only thing I changed was that I turned my lights up to about 800. I 1000% agree with the comment about my room being more ideal for the strips. I've used the apogee meter to check the entire rooms coverage and it's not an even distribution of light, the center is way more intense and concentrated. This pattern is displayed in the leaf burn. In one isle you can clearly see the leaves in between the lights are hardly burned and buds are twice as big, while all foliage directly under the lights burned to a crisp.

I just feel like I can't even trust my meter because the plants seem to like a fraction of the intensity that everyone recommends

 

[Starseed.extracts]

Looks outside @ 2000+ umol/s on a clear day, nah ...... Did you p boost?

Exactly that's whats crazy , I took my meter outside and holy shit is the sun powerful. It's gotta be something about the red spec or something about the spectrum intensity. It's not heat stress and it's not your normal light burn, but I assure you guys from the lights. This has been going on for two cycles now, so on the last one I brought healthy plants that were under blurple LEDs in and they also burned within a couple days in an identical manner.

They are fully nuted up I assure ya. I feed them every other day the full line of nectar 4 the gods. I do feed, feed, compost tea. They have plenty of food and looked great when the lights were about 200 ppfd.

 

[Starseed.extracts]

I had the same problem with my hlg QB96s

those hlg lights can be intense

you gotta either raise your lights or dim them

my dumb ass had each QB96 running of its own 185w meanwell driver at 100%

took me frying a couple grows to realize I only needed to run them at 50%

I think this is the probably the most relevant/ helpful response. I wish I had taller ceilings. And am still stumped that I could run them so close at full power when I had them running in separate 4x4 tents

 

[Gregshed]

They aren't burnt that's deficiency, seen it a million times, your before plants show some small deficiency this extra light just tipped them over the edge.

Light burn is something else.

But eventually you will work it out

They're not underfed, I assure you. They went from lush green and healthy strong growth, to burned to a crisp in less than 40 hours. The only thing I changed was that I turned my lights up to about 800. I 1000% agree with the comment about my room being more ideal for the strips. I've used the apogee meter to check the entire rooms coverage and it's not an even distribution of light, the center is way more intense and concentrated. This pattern is displayed in the leaf burn. In one isle you can clearly see the leaves in between the lights are hardly burned and buds are twice as big, while all foliage directly under the lights burned to a crisp.

I just feel like I can't even trust my meter because the plants seem to like a fraction of the intensity that everyone recommends

 

[Starseed.extracts]

They aren't burnt that's deficiency, seen it a million times, your before plants show some small deficiency this extra light just tipped them over the edge.

Light burn is something else.

But eventually you will work it out

Have you ever grown with quantum boards/ high intensity LEDS in an array?

 

[Starseed.extracts]

Have you ever grown with quantum boards/ high intensity LEDS in an array?

Normal light burn/bleaching or heat stress is different. This is something exclusive to these intense spectrum LEDs

 

[OneHitDone]

Looks outside @ 2000+ umol/s on a clear day, nah ...... Did you p boost?

So you agree most of these issues are caused by the spectral deficiency of 98% of these LED lights?
I definitely am not buying into any lighting that won't work with a nutrient plan that works under the sun

 

[PSUAGRO.]

So you agree most of these issues are caused by the spectral deficiency of 98% of these LED lights?
I definitely am not buying into any lighting that won't work with a nutrient plan that works under the sun

What happened? I thought you where crushing under LEDs/Los couple months ago......

 

[welight]

I 1000% agree with the comment about my room being more ideal for the strips. I've used the apogee meter to check the entire rooms coverage and it's not an even distribution of light, the center is way more intense and concentrated. This pattern is displayed in the leaf burn. In one isle you can clearly see the leaves in between the lights are hardly burned and buds are twice as big, while all foliage directly under the lights burned to a crisp.

I just feel like I can't even trust my meter because the plants seem to like a fraction of the intensity that everyone recommends

As I mentioned, your meter would seem to indicate your piling on in the hot spotted centres, the centres are already hot and cross talk light is adding to the centre's, there is nothing deficient with those leaves, they are smoked. You could test the issue by dropping some mylar between lights, maybe 12-14 inches deep to cut the cross talk and then ramp lights up and down to check, that would likely answer the question without a wholesale rebuild
cheers

 

[Starseed.extracts]

As I mentioned, your meter would seem to indicate your piling on in the hot spotted centres, the centres are already hot and cross talk light is adding to the centre's, there is nothing deficient with those leaves, they are smoked. You could test the issue by dropping some mylar between lights, maybe 12-14 inches deep to cut the cross talk and then ramp lights up and down to check, that would likely answer the question without a wholesale rebuild
cheers

Yes thank you. Everyine tells me it's a a deficiency they say either call mag or P. Well it's not that's impossible my soul is rich with nutrients and ideal oh in a slurry tests , plus I pH my feed every watering and check runoff when I get enough. That mylar is a good idea, if you look at last pictures I actually cover my panda paper with black tapestries because they themselves where causing reflective burning. I removed those the same day s turned my lights up. I know so stupid cause they were doing fine until I turned them up and took that tapestry away. So ya I fried the shit out if em. Which I knew , just glad to have confirmation. And also still have no idea why my ppfd resdings from my apogee meter are so inconsistent with what everyone online recommends. Hell if I can run my lights at half power and still get s good yeild I gladly will cause it'll save my half in electricity cost. I just don't see the plants producing large buds at that low intensity of light.

 

[Norml56]

So you agree most of these issues are caused by the spectral deficiency of 98% of these LED lights?
I definitely am not buying into any lighting that won't work with a nutrient plan that works under the sun

I agree. I do find it to be true so far tho. I'm trying to switch over to a fully amended soil and just water. Only on the 2nd run so far and I'm finding that I do need to supplement with a basic liquid bloom fert. I will be adjusting the next batch of soil that I start to see if I can figure it out.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

I was saying it might be a tox/lock, hard to know from pics as always.

It's 2022 and we're still talking about "led deficiencies"?...... Same shit when we moved from fluoros to hid, you adapt with experience.

 

[Norml56]

I was saying it might be a tox/lock, hard to know from pics as always.

It's 2022 and we're still talking about "led deficiencies"?...... Same shit when we moved from fluoros to hid, you adapt with experience.

True. I have no way of telling if it is LED or just not getting my recipe for the soil just right. Eventually, I'll be able to just use water and for now, I'm good with needing just one bottle for flower. I'm focusing on removing that one extra step during watering and eliminating that cost.

 

[OneHitDone]

This post clearly illustrated the notion that high power bare diode board LED's are "hard on plants". There is a very tight parameter on conditions that all have to line up like stars in the sky for things to go just right. Stray slightly out of that golden zone and things go bad quickly.
How this has become the new norm and go to lighting is beyond me.
I suppose growers just enjoy problem solving?

 

[grotbags]

definitley a strange one...how you have had no troubles in a tent where most people struggle with intense board setups and yet you run into problems in an open room where these lights do best?.

Normal light burn/bleaching or heat stress is different. This is something exclusive to these intense spectrum LEDs

are you saying normal light burn/bleaching is caused by heat? and you belive your burn is caused by photon intensity/ppfd?.
if it was ppfd you would see it in your par readings, if it was cross talk/overlapping high ppfd areas again it would be obvious in your par readings.

there is nothing hidden/mysterious or strange about hlg's spectrum, 800ppfd of hlg's spectrum will perform identically to 800ppfd of 95% of every other light out there.
im not saying spectrum cant/wont have an effect just that there is nothing in hlg's spectrum that would account for your problems not to mention the numerous grows you see on instagram ect where people are killing it with said lights at 1000+ppfd...

if its your lights causing this and from what you say it certainly seems like its connected, then something isnt right elsewhere...

the plants in the tent looked fine and certainly seemed to finish well, but some of the plants in your open room dont look great, it looks like the smallest plant at the front right of your room that looks the most unhappy also looks to be the one most effected by burn in the second picture...
even the very lowest growth looks off so it cant just be down to intensity/ppfd. what ppfd did you get to in veg when they burned the first time?.