Coco problems, leaves malformation

Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
Gemtree said:
The light green is from the Coco holding onto mag so foiler a few times with Epsom salt till the mag in the cocos cation catches up
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but that coco is buffed and the guy used CalMag at lowest ppm 250 but even seemed to have doubled that in an attempt to buffer the coco. but fed very weak npk nute solution, so there must be more Ca than everything else, with Mg also very high and argueably nitrate & S depending on what that CalMag is made off.
but that plant looks typically overwatered, droopy & yellowing. Can be seen outside on many plants after days of rainfall
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Canna Coco's recommendations are based on using pure coco without perlite, so there is a difference there. Sure you can do it without multiple daily feedings and no runoff, if you are using large containers full of straight coco and relatively low EC. There are some drawbacks to that however, similar to the same drawbacks you get in recirculating type systems, in that the plants will pull the nutes they need most, and leave the others behind, thereby resulting in fert imbalances. The beauty of a drain to waste system with multiple feedings, is that you ensure proper nutrition rations are always available to the plant, and you can also get away with much smaller container sizes and less media. I'm guessing that canna coco doesn't want you buying less media, because that results in less sales for them. Same with perlite; if you fill your pot up with 30% perlite, that's 30% less sales for them. I've cannabis in coco for over a decade in all kinds of pots (big, small, wide, narrow, etc), and in varieties of media mixtures (straight coco, coco/perlite, coco/ricehulls, etc). In my experience the plants in large pots of straight coco which are only watered occasionally always did worse. The plants with smaller pots in coco/perlite fed 4x per day have done much better.
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Yes I didn't bring perlite into the equation which would allow it to dry faster but perlite isn't needed with coco anyway and is something many do simply because they think it's a requirement when it's not.

I stopped using perlite years ago and have not noticed any lessor effects.

But my post was more to address the incorrect belief that many have that you have to water coco daily. You don't if it's not necessary. If people want to water their seedlings until runoff from day 1 when it's not necessary that's fine. But I've seen too many posts to count where someone was growing in coco with a tiny 3-4 week old seedling sitting in a saturated solo cup of coco and still watering to runoff.

One of the problems is that many cannabis growers have never grown anything before and the entirety of their knowledge is coming from youtube and cannabis specific sites. That information is often from people whose knowledge is questionable at best. People would be wise to look to other sources of information and they would see that there is a large amount of overcomplicated stuff people do that isn't needed or done to grow any other plant.

As for Canna not wanting you to buy less media I don't think that's the case at all. It's a legitimate company providing legitimate advice for growing using their product. One could also say that the watering daily until runoff is being perpetuated by the many companies that have sprung up offering automated watering systems, drippers, rings, etc... specifically for growing in coco.
 
I

inth3shadowz

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Yes I didn't bring perlite into the equation which would allow it to dry faster but perlite isn't needed with coco anyway and is something many do simply because they think it's a requirement when it's not.

I stopped using perlite years ago and have not noticed any lessor effects.

But my post was more to address the incorrect belief that many have that you have to water coco daily. You don't if it's not necessary. If people want to water their seedlings until runoff from day 1 when it's not necessary that's fine. But I've seen too many posts to count where someone was growing in coco with a tiny 3-4 week old seedling sitting in a saturated solo cup of coco and still watering to runoff.

One of the problems is that many cannabis growers have never grown anything before and the entirety of their knowledge is coming from youtube and cannabis specific sites. That information is often from people whose knowledge is questionable at best. People would be wise to look to other sources of information and they would see that there is a large amount of overcomplicated stuff people do that isn't needed or done to grow any other plant.

As for Canna not wanting you to buy less media I don't think that's the case at all. It's a legitimate company providing legitimate advice for growing using their product. One could also say that the watering daily until runoff is being perpetuated by the many companies that have sprung up offering automated watering systems, drippers, rings, etc... specifically for growing in coco.
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I found a coco hempy guide that told me to water til it pees out the hole daily once it pops the ground. It grew big thick branches with giant leaves and stayed healthy all the way to harvest and I was very happy. Sometimes you gotta just not overthink lol.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
coreywebster said:
To overwater coco you have to have a small root mass in a big pot and it stay wet so long the o2 depleates.
If you water regularly regardless of it being wet your adding more o2 everytime you water and it stays health.
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I believe this is the root of the false interpretation of the myth of "you cannot overwater coco".
Adding water to fill a pot will displace air which holds actually 21% oxygen. The little O2 solved in the water is far less.
It's actually the structure of coco grains & perlite that allows for air pockets to be between them - but once the medium is 100% soaked none of these remain.
I have a study here explaining this in great detail and it finds great differences between the coco substrates in term of water matrix potential & atmosphere retained.
I'd also venture to say that a droopy plant doesnt transpire/drink as much as a healthy one which would just exacerbate root water stress
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Yes I didn't bring perlite into the equation which would allow it to dry faster but perlite isn't needed with coco anyway and is something many do simply because they think it's a requirement when it's not.

I stopped using perlite years ago and have not noticed any lessor effects.

But my post was more to address the incorrect belief that many have that you have to water coco daily. You don't if it's not necessary. If people want to water their seedlings until runoff from day 1 when it's not necessary that's fine. But I've seen too many posts to count where someone was growing in coco with a tiny 3-4 week old seedling sitting in a saturated solo cup of coco and still watering to runoff.

One of the problems is that many cannabis growers have never grown anything before and the entirety of their knowledge is coming from youtube and cannabis specific sites. That information is often from people whose knowledge is questionable at best. People would be wise to look to other sources of information and they would see that there is a large amount of overcomplicated stuff people do that isn't needed or done to grow any other plant.

As for Canna not wanting you to buy less media I don't think that's the case at all. It's a legitimate company providing legitimate advice for growing using their product. One could also say that the watering daily until runoff is being perpetuated by the many companies that have sprung up offering automated watering systems, drippers, rings, etc... specifically for growing in coco.
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I think the key word in your statement is "necessary". I agree that there are many ways to grow in coco, and it's "not necessary" to water daily in coco. That said, my opinion having grown in coco with many different methods, is that it's "optimal" to grow with coco in smaller containers and treat in as a hydroponic medium with multiple daily feedings, rather than treat it like soil and use large pots and occasional waterings. Either way will work, but the former way is, as I said, optimal.
 
DrOgkush

DrOgkush

Well-Known Member
Wattzzup said:
you say something is the “worst advice ever” but it’s actually the correct suggestion for him.
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No. I don’t think so. His plant clearly is dropped with a wet media. My point was that coco still can cause problems with water. It happened to me. I hand water. So I go based off the weight. Couldn be more successful for me. Plants grow double the speed with twice the vigor. So either I have drought super beans. Or I’m doing something correct with my practice. Which I do not water everyday. Usually every other. All I was saying is I ran into the same problem and someone told be to stop watering so much. Step back and let the roots work. Don’t let it dry out. The exact example I was given was use a paper towel and see if water set through right away by just setting it on the media. If it does. Wait 8 hours. Check again. But I just go by weight now. Oh. And I avoid run off completely if I can.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
DrOgkush said:
No. I don’t think so. His plant clearly is dropped with a wet media. My point was that coco still can cause problems with water. It happened to me. I hand water. So I go based off the weight. Couldn be more successful for me. Plants grow double the speed with twice the vigor. So either I have drought super beans. Or I’m doing something correct with my practice. Which I do not water everyday. Usually every other. All I was saying is I ran into the same problem and someone told be to stop watering so much. Step back and let the roots work. Don’t let it dry out. The exact example I was given was use a paper towel and see if water set through right away by just setting it on the media. If it does. Wait 8 hours. Check again. But I just go by weight now. Oh. And I avoid run off completely if I can.
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Have you tried automated watering multiple times a day in coco, so that you have that to compare against your current method?
 
DrOgkush

DrOgkush

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Have you tried automated watering multiple times a day in coco, so that you have that to compare against your current method?
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The question wasn what works best. I was just stating what’s working for me. That’s all. No debate at all. It’s said you have to water multiple times a day every day. I never have. That’s all. No comparison.
 
DrOgkush

DrOgkush

Well-Known Member
I mean it’s obvious using an automated system like blumats are going to give you giant leap in success in coco. It’s all over the forums lmao

that’s not overwatering. That’s regulated waterings. ;)
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
DrOgkush said:
The question wasn what works best. I was just stating what’s working for me. That’s all. No debate at all. It’s said you have to water multiple times a day every day. I never have. That’s all. No comparison.
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Actually what you said was "Couldn be more successful for me", which implies that there is no room for improvement.

I went back and read this thread again, and unless I missed it no one said that "you have to water multiple times a day every day". Just like a person doesn't have to eat three healthy meals a day, but they are likely to be in more optimal health if they do, vs surviving off of one big meal each day.
 
DrOgkush

DrOgkush

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Actually what you said was "Couldn be more successful for me", which implies that there is no room for improvement.

I went back and read this thread again, and unless I missed it no one said that "you have to water multiple times a day every day". Just like a person doesn't have to eat three healthy meals a day, but they are likely to be in more optimal health if they do, vs surviving off of one big meal each day.
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I see your point. But I’m not changing what works. I’ll still continue to water when needed. Gradually increasing as the roots develop. With me hand watering. That’s fit for success for me. That’s the info iv chosen to gather. It’s the info iv chosen to follow until I increase in knowledge and get an automated watering system. And my plants are happy green and vigor with my methods and my feeding schedule. I’m content and happy right where I’m at.

and yes. It was said. Someone benefits from the use of blumats multiple times a day with 0 runoff. And they had 0 problems. But that’s not the point.
The point was. Water can still be devastating in excess. Even in coco. Iv seen and done it. And that why I’m where I’m at. That’s the only point I made. Put your tampons back in people. Everyone’s plants are green and healthy. Despite op.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
DrOgkush said:
I see your point. But I’m not changing what works. I’ll still continue to water when needed. Gradually increasing as the roots develop. With me hand watering. That’s fit for success for me. That’s the info iv chosen to gather. It’s the info iv chosen to follow until I increase in knowledge and get an automated watering system. And my plants are happy green and vigor with my methods and my feeding schedule. I’m content and happy right where I’m at.

and yes. It was said. Someone benefits from the use of blumats multiple times a day with 0 runoff. And they had 0 problems. But that’s not the point.
The point was. Water can still be devastating in excess. Even in coco. Iv seen and done it. And that why I’m where I’m at. That’s the only point I made. Put your tampons back in people. Everyone’s plants are green and healthy. Despite op.
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they will continue to pass god-awful advice out to prevent newbs from catching up.
it's all about concurrency these days. $$$ o_O
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
One of the problems is that many cannabis growers have never grown anything before and the entirety of their knowledge is coming from youtube and cannabis specific sites.
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yeah grow some tomatoes atleast, take care of a basil plant grow some roses etc. all good plants and the sites focused on these regular plants do provide better information on plant management ime.

xtsho said:
As for Canna not wanting you to buy less media I don't think that's the case at all. It's a legitimate company providing legitimate advice for growing using their product. One could also say that the watering daily until runoff is being perpetuated by the many companies that have sprung up offering automated watering systems, drippers, rings, etc... specifically for growing in coco.
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i’m also guessing canna could make a lot more money from 4x the fert usage at higher doses each time going straight to drain? i mean canna nutes are not cheap.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
crimsonecho said:
yeah grow some tomatoes atleast, take care of a basil plant grow some roses etc. all good plants and the sites focused on these regular plants do provide better information on plant management ime.



i’m also guessing canna could make a lot more money from 4x the fert usage at higher doses each time going straight to drain? i mean canna nutes are not cheap.
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Guaranteed the profit margin from bottled nutrients is more than from coco coir.
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Guaranteed the profit margin from bottled nutrients is more than from coco coir.
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yeah like 95% of a bottle is just water its crazy profit right there. if i had a company trying to increase profits i’d suggest multiple high ec feedings definitely. well a shady company atleast lol
 
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